Most intimidating physical sweeper?

[Haza]

Im also pretty scared of metagross, the only fire types I have Evd are a shiny Charizard, shiny Arcanine, a Shiny Ninetales that I dont want anymore and a Camerupt.

 

[Romo_Owens]

Meh I've already stated that min my opinion it is SD Garchomp but I'm going to go ahead and give out an honorable mention to Metagross. A total base stat of 600 is nothing to smirk at, also backed by a 135 base atack stat. All of it's stats except its speed are above average and it comes with Agility. It also has bulky defense stats and good typing giving it a chance to set up an agility. Something a lot of sweepers can't say. It only has 2 weaknesses, and fire isn't that widespread, and Garchomp and cursepert are among the only pokemon that can brag the ability to OHKO it with an Earthquake. Sure it's STAB type coverage isn't all that great but only a handful of pokemon can stand up to both Meteor Mash and Earthquake (and they get hit for at least neutral damage from thunderpunch).

 

[c_dog]

It only takes one turn for Gyarados to OHKO you with a STAB Waterfall =/ Gyarados can also have team support such as Aromatherapy.

what makes you think gyarados can OHKO with stab waterfall? i haven't had my pokemon OHKO by gyara in a long long time. i always carry several tanks/walls with me.

and yes, aromatherapy is exactly what i want from you because it gives me time to set up. the turns that you're using aromatherapy and maybe try to throw in a twave to be cute, i would be setting up for the kill. and gyara does not like switching into stealth rocks especially if it's losing 10% of its health on every hit already. that's why status works really well on gyarados w/o taunt.

@anti: yes i have played some of the current metagame on smogon, and i noticed it's gotten a lot weaker. i haven't played in over a year and i was still destroying opponents with my Brock team. Brock only has like.. 7 useable pokemon so I didn't have a whole lot to choose from. Still went 5-1 on the first day I came back though only losing the first game.

 

[Anti]

Status works well on Gyarados without Taunt, but even if you try to set up on Aromatherapy the metagame is swarming with revenge killers.

Basically, Gyarados can't even sweep the sweepers in today's metagame (which is kind of sad) with two moveslots for attacking and a bulky EV spread. It needs Life Orb and 3 attacks to beat what it has to.

I ask you, what is more common? Sweepers or status inducers? Gyarados needs to worry about the former a lot more.

Also the extra power and coverage helps against walls that aren't trying to status you, such as Celebi.

 

[sims796]

Special sweepers, by nature, are just less intimidating. Not only do most lack that ability, but Special sweepers are just OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL'd by Blissey. :/

Tell that to Azelf, or the vast majority of players hell bent on removing Blissey first. CM sweepers just decimate, and Fake Tera gets an honorary mention for Blissey killing.

 

[.]

what makes you think gyarados can OHKO with stab waterfall? i haven't had my pokemon OHKO by gyara in a long long time. i always carry several tanks/walls with me.

Because you've been fighting that weak as hell, pathetic BulkyGyara. LO Gyara can probably sweep your entire team.

 

[sims796]

And how do you come to that bold asumption? Personally, I thought this was all in perspective to the poster. I suppose we must all unanimouly agree on one sweeper as best? Buliky is no sweeper, but he certainly isn't weak. He is the more defensive Gya, and hits hard enough for an defensive poke.

 

[.]

And how do you come to that bold asumption? Personally, I thought this was all in perspective to the poster. I suppose we must all unanimouly agree on one sweeper as best? Buliky is no sweeper, but he certainly isn't weak. He is the more defensive Gya, and hits hard enough for an defensive poke.

We are talking about physical sweepers. As a sweeper, BulkyGyarados fails. That is what I am referring too. LO Gyarados is a great sweeper, whereas BulkyGyara is too worried about status and stuff, and it cannot outrun many enemies, thus why LO Gyara >>> BulkyGyara for sweeping purposes.

 

[sims796]

We were talking about what we felt as the more intimidating sweeper. Not what Anti-I mean, what is the universal best sweeper ever. Do you feel LO Gya as the best sweeper over Chomp, as quoted earier? Then you have a discussion.

 

[.]

We were talking about what we felt as the more intimidating sweeper. Not what Anti-I mean, what is the universal best sweeper ever. Do you feel LO Gya as the best sweeper over Chomp, as quoted earier? Then you have a discussion.

I was saying that LO Gyara >> BulkyGyara as a sweeper, why are you bringing Chomp into this very simple discussion?

 

[Romo_Owens]

We were talking about what we felt as the more intimidating sweeper. Not what Anti-I mean, what is the universal best sweeper ever. Do you feel LO Gya as the best sweeper over Chomp, as quoted earier? Then you have a discussion.

No I really don't. I have my reasons I guess the most important being the speed. In my opinion (which is why I completely agree with vance bulkydos isn't threatening), until Gyarados gets a DD set up it's slower than 4/6 pokemon on my team, and 2 of those 4 have thunderbolt. Until it gets that set-up it will be OHKOd in no time. Garchomp however, has the ability to OHKO 5/6 pokemon on my team and is faster than 1/2 of my team, and one of those happens to be a Garchomp, one of the other 2 has Choice Scarf and neither of them pose much of a threat to Gengar other than putting it to sleep. I also like the typing of Garchomp better, and it's movepool is better as well IMO. The only thing I think Gyarados has going for it is that IMO, Dragon Dance is a better set-up move than Swords Dance. If Garchomp had Dragon Dance as well in it's movepool, it would be an Uber by now.

 

[sims796]

Because the thread isn't about only Bulky vs LO. It's a very simple discussion that belongs in another thread. As I said, in the first post, I clearly saw "what do you think is the most intimidating sweeper", not "let's discuss which sweeper is the absolute best", as many said Chomp, I said SD Luke, one even said Empoleon, for God knows what. That is why I am including CHomp in this very simple discussion.

EDIT:WTF? Where did you come from, Romo? All good points, I guess.

 

[c_dog]

Because you've been fighting that weak as hell, pathetic BulkyGyara. LO Gyara can probably sweep your entire team.

this is why i say competition has been weak these days. people just carry sweepers like LO gyara and garchomp and expect to sweep their opponents. that's not good strategy.

yeah, why don't we just all use LO gyara then we won't ever lose a single game again, ever, right?

that statement is just ignorant and hold no weight whatsoever. and just about any bulky water can be turned into a gyarados counter if someone was really THAT concerned with gyarados(ev's in defense and some spatt with hidden power electric). no single pokemon can sweep an entire team unless that team is ridiculously unbalanced.

 

[Magmortified]

this is why i say competition has been weak these days. people just carry sweepers like LO gyara and garchomp and expect to sweep their opponents. that's not good strategy.

...You don't go on the Smogon ladder at all, do you?

yeah, why don't we just all use LO gyara then we won't ever lose a single game again, ever, right?

That wasn't the freakin' point. The point was that LO Dos is a better sweeper than Bulkydos and can sweep unprepared teams. Especially if the team only accounts for Bulkydos (as in saying, "Starmie is my Gyarados counter").

that statement is just ignorant and hold no weight whatsoever. and just about any bulky water can be turned into a gyarados counter if someone was really THAT concerned with gyarados(ev's in defense and some spatt with hidden power electric).

Okay, okay. Let's look at the four most popular bulky waters as of July.

Vaporeon, Swampert, Suicune, and Milotic.

Standard Vaporeon (188 HP/252 Defense) is 2HKO'd by DD LO Earthquake. While it fails to OHKO Gyarados with HP Electric in turn. This does not seem like a counter.

What does Swampert do to Gyarados again?

Suicune... well, yeah, you got me there. Suicune's not a particularly big user of HP Electric (or at least, not to the extent Vaporeon is). Usage stats say you'll see it about a third of the time, when you see Suicune at all. Also, HP Electric means taking a cut elsewhere in the moveset.

Milotic is a 2HKO. Also, very few Milotic carry HP Electric, and only around half (and you're not going to see a Milotic very often, mind you) even carry Hypnosis. 'Ccording to the usage stats, anyways.

Great counters those bulky waters are. The two most common have trouble stopping Gyara, the third rarely has HP Electric anyways, and the fourth's a 2HKO also, nevermind you'll not see it often.

So... that leaves, what? Suicune?

*Cough* "That statement is just ignorant and holds no weight whatsoever."

no single pokemon can sweep an entire team unless that team is ridiculously unbalanced.

Or unless you're Deoxys-E and the opponent hasn't much of a way to deal with it. =P

 

[sims796]

Please, can we calm the hell down? I thought we were discussing what we felt as the most intimidating sweeper. HE feels Bulky.

Also, statistics can only show usability. Not seeing it often doesn't make it any less of a counter.

However, before I get a seven page post about why I am wrong, I really see where you are comming from. Statistics do show what most teams have, what it is most popular, & in turn, what to expect.

I was swept by a Jolteon. Just throwing that out there. Yeah...

 

[.]

Please, can we calm the hell down? I thought we were discussing what we felt as the most intimidating sweeper. HE feels Bulky.

Also, statistics can only show usability. Not seeing it often doesn't make it any less of a counter.

However, before I get a seven page post about why I am wrong, I really see where you are comming from. Statistics do show what most teams have, what it is most popular, & in turn, what to expect.

I was swept by a Jolteon. Just throwing that out there. Yeah...

I know that, what I was saying is that LO Gyara is a better sweeper than BulkyGyara, not that it's the best sweeper. In a sense, it was a mini-debate inside of a huge debate.

I got swept by Jolteon too. Fake Tears + Sub = OUCH

 

[sims796]

SubPeyata sweep, forgot it carries Shadow Ball.

 

[.]

Same here, with a Petaya Berry and one Fake Tears, he gets +3 SpA in a sense.

Oh yeah, another scary physical sweeping I just fought; Nidoking. Yeah, it's UU, but it does things a lot of other Pokes can't. It can't be poisoned for one, it resists fighting, it has a hell of a physical and special movepool, AND it gets STAB on EQ.

 

[sims796]

I also say Tauros. Sure, He *can* be walled, and has a predictable moveset, but he hits hard & fast. Doing over 50% to Gliscor with a Double Edge is painful. It has Intimidate, promoting free switch-ins, and it can take advantage of Anger Point, if that means anything. Absolutely nothing in today's metagame can even hope to compete with an angry Tauros. Hell, use the Substitute/Salac berry thing, hope for a crit, and nothing but Scarfers & Jesus can help you.

 

[.]

Let's not forget that one *good* counter, Weezing, would get utterly decimated by Zen Headbutt.

Anger Point Tauros D: Salac Berry makes it faster than Deoxys-e, right? And it learns Pursuit for Ghosts.... Oh god, poor OU Metagame...