Moveset Help & Other Questions

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Juxapose said:
Speed is not important in this case. We still need to figure out why did Destiny Bond last 2 turns. (The description CLEARLY states that it should only last 1 turn assuming if it went first, and it did.)
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Are you really sure that you Gengar went first on the turn it used Destiny Bond? Perhaps you misread or something. That is really the only logical explanation, unless you could produce visual proof.
 
Forget it then. I did not record the battle because I lost. And I never record lost battles. Lets just chuck it as another glitch and move on.
 
Juxapose said:
Forget it then. I did not record the battle because I lost. And I never record lost battles. Lets just chuck it as another glitch and move on.
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It's not a glitch.

Let's break it down.
-Gengar used Destiny Bond before Lucario's Earthquake didn't do a thing to it.
-Then Lucario's Metal Claw KOed Gengar, triggering Destiny Bond.

Destiny Bond remains in effect until the user makes its next move, which Gengar failed to do.
 
bao0607 said:
What is OU and what is Rapid Spinner ?
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"OU" means the OverUsed tier. This is the tier that most everyone else plays competitively. A Rapid Spinner is exactly what it says on the tin: a Pokemon that can use Rapid Spin to clear away entry hazards from its side of the field.
 
PlatinumDude said:
It's not a glitch.

Let's break it down.
-Gengar used Destiny Bond before Lucario's Earthquake didn't do a thing to it.
-Then Lucario's Metal Claw KOed Gengar, triggering Destiny Bond.

Destiny Bond remains in effect until the user makes its next move, which Gengar failed to do.
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I am not sure why is this odd rule so hard to understand.

Destiny Bond only lasts for the current turn
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This is not what I wrote. Source:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Destiny_Bond_(move)
 
Juxapose said:
Do you know another site that is more accurate?
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Bulbapedia is your best bet for now. And you seriously overlooked this tidbit in the quote you posted:

Destiny Bond only lasts for the current turn; conversely, if the user moves last, it takes effect during the next turn.
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In other words, if the Destiny Bond user goes first and uses the move and is subsequently KOed, the opponent gets KOed with it. If the Destiny Bond user goes last and is KOed by that faster opponent, Destiny Bond still takes effect.
 
PlatinumDude said:
Bulbapedia is your best bet for now. And you seriously overlooked this tidbit in the quote you posted:



In other words, if the Destiny Bond user goes first and uses the move and is subsequently KOed, the opponent gets KOed with it. If the Destiny Bond user goes last and is KOed by that faster opponent, Destiny Bond still takes effect.
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You still missed the point that destiny bond went first, meaning the next turn would not be affected by Destiny Bond. Only way Destiny Bond would carry over would be if Destiny Bond went last.
 
Juxapose said:
You still missed the point that destiny bond went first, meaning the next turn would not be affected by Destiny Bond. Only way Destiny Bond would carry over would be if Destiny Bond went last.
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You still don't get it, do you?

Let's go over your example again:

Gengar used Destiny Bond in an attempt to take you down. Lucario used Earthquake, which failed to affect Gengar. Destiny Bond still remained in effect because Gengar failed to make its next move when Lucario KOed it with Metal Claw (which caused Lucario to faint)

Destiny Bond remains in effect from the first time the user used the move up to when it makes its next move.
 
PlatinumDude said:
You still don't get it, do you?

Let's go over your example again:

Gengar used Destiny Bond in an attempt to take you down. Lucario used Earthquake, which failed to affect Gengar. Destiny Bond still remained in effect because Gengar failed to make its next move when Lucario KOed it with Metal Claw

Destiny Bond remains in effect from the first time the Pokemon used the move up to when it makes its next move.
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That is not how the move works.

Lets try this again.

If the user takes another turn (including 'inactive' turns such as such as those spent sleeping or flinching), the effect disappears. Destiny Bond is not an increased priority move -- if the user is faster than the opponent (or otherwise moves first), Destiny Bond only lasts for the current turn; conversely, if the user moves last, it takes effect during the next turn.
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Juxapose said:
That is not how the move works.
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At the bolded part: Gengar failed to make its next move, as it fainted before it even got to do anything else.

Let's break this down again on how Destiny Bond works, as a speed tie occurred:
-Gengar used Destiny Bond
-Lucario failed to attack with Earthquake
-Lucario KOed Gengar with Metal Claw
-Gengar tries to attack again

The slashed part never happened, as Gengar got KOed before it did anything, meaning that Destiny Bond remained in effect
 
PlatinumDude said:
At the bolded part: Gengar failed to make its next move, as it fainted before it even got to do anything else.

Let's break this down again on how Destiny Bond works, as a speed tie occurred:
-Gengar used Destiny Bond
-Lucario failed to attack with Earthquake
-Lucario KOed Gengar with Metal Claw
-Gengar tries to attack again

The slashed part never happened, as Gengar got KOed before it did anything, meaning that Destiny Bond remained in effect
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The website clearly stated in the bold, the effect disappears even if the attacking Pokemon does not get to use a new move. It only works for that very move assuming Destiny bond was used first. Destiny Bond does not carry over if it was used first.
 
Juxapose said:
The website clearly stated in the bold, the effect disappears even if the attacking Pokemon does not get to use a new move. It only works for that very move assuming Destiny bond was used first. Destiny Bond does not carry over if it was used first.
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Then Gengar did not take an inactive turn. It was never asleep and it never flinched during the last turn. A Pokemon fainting doesn't count as an inactive turn.
 
This is getting pretty repetitive - lemme try and help with a modest analogy.

Imagine Destiny Bond is like a light switch; which is turned off by using any other move. Whomever made the first move, once that Gengar flipped the switch, turning Destiny Bond on, it was left on because your lucario KO'd him before he could flip it off by using another move. That is how Destiny Bond works, regardless of misleading descriptions from various sites.


Also - my quick and simple question, does anyone know a place to EV train for Defense in X/Y through horde battles other than route 10 where you get hordes of Nosepass? I have a mold breaker Sawk with earthquake which eliminates the obnoxious Sturdy, but the rate of finding Yanma there is still perturbing.
 
PlatinumDude said:
Then Gengar did not take an inactive turn. It was never asleep and it never flinched during the last turn. A Pokemon fainting doesn't count as an inactive turn.
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Once again, the effect does not carry over to the next move (unless the move was used last). It just plain can't. There is no if, ands, or buts about it. It can't. You have not provided one shred of evidence that the effect will last until a new move is used. Let me once again post the rule involving the move. Point out any piece you please that proves that this move can carry over when used first:

Destiny Bond only works if it is used immediately prior to fainting: If the user takes another turn (including 'inactive' turns such as such as those spent sleeping or flinching), the effect disappears. Destiny Bond is not an increased priority move -- if the user is faster than the opponent (or otherwise moves first), Destiny Bond only lasts for the current turn; conversely, if the user moves last, it takes effect during the next turn.
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Once again:

if the user is faster than the opponent (or otherwise moves first), Destiny Bond only lasts for the current turn
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And again:

if the user moves last, it takes effect during the next turn.
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And the final icing on the cake:

Destiny Bond only works if it is used immediately prior to fainting
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Juxapose said:
Once again, the effect does not carry over to the next move (unless the move was used last). It just plain can't. There is no if, ands, or buts about it. It can't. You have not provided one shred of evidence that the effect will last until a new move is used. Let me once again post the rule involving the move. Point out any piece you please that proves that this move can carry over when used first
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You still don't understand the point. Reread this page and the last one, especially the example I pointed out.

The bottom line is, Destiny Bond is active until the user's next move, unless the user got stunned by paralysis, flinched, put out of commission by freeze or sleep.
 
Welllll guys, the glory of this debacle is that it's completely objective not subjective, and can be tested to a very definitive answer in game. Why not just boot up your X/Y, / Showdown and test it out?

I'll do it right now. I actually have a gengar with destiny bond. I know where I can get that scenario too.
 
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