Occupy Wall Street

[Mr. X]

The banks and big corperations have enough money to line the pockets of politicians to get laws that will let them make more money passed. With more profits they can line more pockets and thus the cycle repeats itself.

We didn't elect them but still... Money talks and ******** walks.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Political donations are an expression of political opinion, and to restrict it is unconstitutional. (Citizens United v. FEC (2010) 558 U.S. 08-205) When the government starts limiting how much we can participate in the political process, that's dangerous.

The head of a company can donate out of their own personal funds if they wish. A company, however, should not. A company is not a person and it cannot have a political opinion.

 

[Netto Azure]

Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear protest camp

Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear protest camp

Police said most protesters left the park once the order was given​

New York police have dismantled the Occupy Wall Street camp in Zuccotti Park following a late-night raid.

Protesters were woken at 01:00 (06:00 GMT) and ordered to leave, before police began dismantling tents and removing property.

Occupy Wall Street was set up in September to protest against economic inequality and had inspired dozens of similar camps around the world.

A camp in Oakland, California was cleared overnight on Monday.

Police in New York gave an announcement as their operation began, telling protesters: "The city has determined that the continued occupation of Zuccotti Park poses an increasing health and fire safety hazard."

Mayor Michael Bloomberg's office released a message on Twitter saying protesters should "temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps" but could return once the park was clear.
Leaflets were handed out telling occupants to "immediately remove all private property" and warning they would be arrested if they interfered with the operation.

Any belongings left behind would be put into storage, said the notice, and protesters would not be allowed to bring camping equipment back if they returned.

The protesters' live web stream from the park showed crowds chanting "all day, all week, Occupy Wall Street" and "the whole world is watching" as police moved into the camp, close to New York's financial district.

"They gave us about 20 minutes to get our things together," protester Sam Wood told Reuters. "It's a painful process to watch, they are sweeping through the park."

Police spokesman Paul Browne said most people had begun leaving the park once the order to vacate was given but that a small group of people had refused to leave.

At least 15 people were arrested, say reports.

Really? Doing this in the middle of the night and instituting a News/Press Blackout. Yes NYPD and Mayor Bloomberg you have just shown us how tactics used by dictators can be used here in the US. >_>

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear protest camp

Police said most protesters left the park once the order was given​

Really? Doing this in the middle of the night and instituting a News/Press Blackout. Yes NYPD and Mayor Bloomberg you have just shown us how tactics used by dictators can be used here in the US. >_>

Well... I don't agree with the media blackout part. But, police raids are often at night or pre-dawn everywhere. Did they receive any notice?

This cleanup is happening throughout the globe right now. I don't think it is the 1% executing their power or influence on the police force or the politicians. Increasingly, the majority of the public (even if they fall within that 99%) want the occupiers out of their parks.

The first two weeks or so were good. They we marching. They earned news coverage. They were loud. Their message was coming across. And then they stopped marching and stopped making noise and just started camping. The news stopped conveying their message and basically went to "Yep, folks. They're still sitting there".

In the midst of all this last night, Michael Moore on Twitter said that now phase two will begin and that Wall St. will wish they left them in the park. Good, I say. Actually start protesting again. Start making noise. Get angry. Rile up the public and get them behind you. You took over the Brooklyn bridge once, do big things like that. Try to influence the politicians. Get.things.done.

Illegally occupying parks across the globe, preventing the rest of the public from accessing their parks, and negatively affecting small businesses in the surrounding area was not the correct way to do this.

I still agree with the cause and the movement as a whole, but the methods were getting stale and ineffective. Time to switch it up.

EDIT: So... apparently they were given notice and told that they can return to the park to protest, without camping gear so they stop camping, after they clean the park. They're allowed back. And they're already. So.... what's wrong?

EDIT2: Eviction notices handed out in Toronto. But, again, they're not being "kicked out". The by-law explicitly says to remove camping gear and that they are free to still use the park to protest every day, but not from 12AM-5:30AM.

 

[jpp8]

"The revolution will not be televised."

This is a gross violation of our First Amendment rights to peacefully assemble and our right to the press. Even if you felt the movement wasn't going in the right direction, they still had the right to do so and this event was indicative of how far those at the top would go to silence it.

EDIT: Also, it would be wise to mention that this was not a peaceful "everyone get out or we'll use force" evacuation. They brought bulldozers and police in riot gear. "Counter-terrorism" Forces. Does not following an eviction order, even though they were allowed to stay due to court orders and First Amendment rights, justify this kind of force used?

 

[TRIFORCE89]

"The revolution will not be televised."

This is a gross violation of our First Amendment rights to peacefully assemble and our right to the press. Even if you felt the movement wasn't going in the right direction, they still had the right to do so and this event was indicative of how far those at the top would go to silence it.

EDIT: Also, it would be wise to mention that this was not a peaceful "everyone get out or we'll use force" evacuation. They brought bulldozers and police in riot gear. "Counter-terrorism" Forces. Does not following an eviction order, even though they were allowed to stay due to court orders and First Amendment rights, justify this kind of force used?

Well... I don't know the American laws. But, for here in Toronto

1) You can't be in parks between 12AM - 5:30AM. They are technically "closed".
2) You need a permit to setup camp in a park

They've violated both of those and the local government has let them continue for 31 days. This morning they were given eviction notices, which the occupiers then proceeded to burn and turn into paper airplanes. The city has offered to help the occupiers pack up if they require it. This offer has not been taken up on. Instead, the occupiers have decided to throw a party at midnight in the park, which is the deadline when the police are set to move in.

The city has said they can keep protesting in the park, but they need to do so during official open hours and remove the camp site. That is what they have the right to do.

So, who is in violation here exactly?

 

[jpp8]

When you put it that way, yeah, the protestors. In any case though, do you agree with the brutal response that the protestors received? Being pepper sprayed and met with riot police?

 

[Mr. X]

They refused the carrot so the stick had to be used.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

The head of a company can donate out of their own personal funds if they wish. A company, however, should not. A company is not a person and it cannot have a political opinion.

If that company is a corporation, it is a person legally. Also, you are wrong in stating that companies don't have political opinions. I've already provided law that proves my point.

As for the protests, I'm sure they broke regulations that say you have to have a permit for a crowd of a certain size, as well as time, place, and manner restrictions. Courts usually uphold permit requirements when your protest is large enough to block off roads and sidewalks.

If the protesters felt that adamantly that such restrictions are wrong they have three options: 1) Petition their state legislatures, 2) a citizen's ballot initiative, or 3) allow themselves to be prosecuted for the purposes of challenging the constitutionality of their situation.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

When you put it that way, yeah, the protestors. In any case though, do you agree with the brutal response that the protestors received? Being pepper sprayed and met with riot police?

No, of course not. The occupations have been largely peaceful.

 

[jpp8]

They refused the carrot so the stick had to be used.

We condemned the brutal actions taken against protestors in Arab Spring. Why do we condone the use of brutal force domestically?

If that company is a corporation, it is a person legally. Also, you are wrong in stating that companies don't have political opinions. I've already provided law that proves my point.

As for the protests, I'm sure they broke regulations that say you have to have a permit for a crowd of a certain size, as well as time, place, and manner restrictions. Courts usually uphold permit requirements when your protest is large enough to block off roads and sidewalks.

If the protesters felt that adamantly that such restrictions are wrong they have three options: 1) Petition their state legislatures, 2) a citizen's ballot initiative, or 3) allow themselves to be prosecuted for the purposes of challenging the constitutionality of their situation.

And that's one of the things OWS is protesting: The legality of corporate personhood. A company is not a person. It should have no sway in how government runs or passes laws. Why are they allowed to "buy" their way into office and enable laws that allow them to make more money? Why is this considered "free speech", but protestors in a park isn't?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

We condemned the brutal actions taken against protestors in Arab Spring. Why do we condone the use of brutal force domestically?


And that's one of the things OWS is protesting: The legality of corporate personhood. A company is not a person. It should have no sway in how government runs or passes laws. Why are they allowed to "buy" their way into office and enable laws that allow them to make more money? Why is this considered "free speech", but protestors in a park isn't?

Who said protestors in a park aren't free speech? The issue is whether they are following local ordinances regarding safety.

Also, people are just as free as coporations are to make camapign contributions.

 

[jpp8]

The action of forcefully evicting them as well as preventing media, with proper media passes, to document the act sounds a lot like censorship of Free Speech and Press to me. Actions speak louder than words.

In the end though, Corporations are not people. Their contributions should have no sway in what legislation is passed especially if only serves to benefit them.

 

[Mr. X]

They were given the opportunity the leave. They didn't. Force had to be used. If they want to protest, let them. Still doesn't exempt them from the various laws regarding the land that they have chosen to stay at.

As for the actions taken against them, they were all legal. Don't agree with them? Don't hate the people enforcing the laws, hate the laws.

As for the actions taken against the protesters being the same as those taken against the ones in Arab Spring... I must have missed a story somewhere because as far as I know the military hasn't been called out yet. You show me a picture of a soldier shooting at the protesters with his assault rifle, or a picture of a tank rolling right into the middle of a camp and back them up with news stories and then your comparison might be true. As it is, your trying to compare two completely diffrient protests with a series of diffrient goals.

 

[jpp8]

It's legal to use that degree force against peaceful protestors? Welp, it can't be helped I guess. Although, that argument seems awfully similar to "But I was following orders".

And I may have been hasty in my comparison of OWS protests to Arab Spring. Apologies for that.

 

[Oryx]

I was reading that the protestors were literally chaining themselves to immovable objects and linking arms to resist being evicted from the park temporarily. It seems like if the police don't use force, they have no choice but to allow protestors to break laws because the way the resistors reacted left them little choice but to force them to leave.

Although I can't condone keeping the media away.

 

[Alley Cat]

The protesters are at fault here. They don't just have a free pass to ignore whatever laws they choose simply because the disagree with the government. No, you have to work with in the rules of the system, even if you intend to topple it. They are clearly breaking laws, and they still need to follow them. This is where the protest loses the peaceful part. It isn't an aggressive protest, but it isn't peaceful either as they are denying the requests to leave the park when they aren't supposed to be. But the officers are also turning to an extreme... . Fully geared riot squads for illegal camping...? Try again, America... =/

 

[FreakyLocz14]

It's legal to use that degree force against peaceful protestors? Welp, it can't be helped I guess. Although, that argument seems awfully similar to "But I was following orders".

And I may have been hasty in my comparison of OWS protests to Arab Spring. Apologies for that.

The OWS protesters became criminals the minute they refused to disband. If you believe that the law that forces them to disband is unconstitutional, take it to court. The streets aren't the place for litigation.

And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.

 

[Mario The World Champion]

How long before the Occupy Wall Street protests ends with the status quo enjoyed by the 1% still intact and the 99% go back to their low paying jobs and getting evicted from their homes? Do these people even have a second phase and what phase is that?

While I sort of defended these people in the beginning, their actions make me realize that the 99% have nothing. Our voices don't mean **** when the 1% can easily shut us up with their money and continue manipulating the rules to their advantage.

The 1% and their status quo are here to stay, OWS. It's over.

 

[jpp8]

If you believe that the law that forces them to disband is unconstitutional, take it to court. The streets aren't the place for litigation.

And do you think it would get passed?

And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.


This is why we are protesting.

How long before the Occupy Wall Street protests ends with the status quo enjoyed by the 1% still intact and the 99% go back to their low paying jobs and getting evicted from their homes? Do these people even have a second phase and what phase is that?

While I sort of defended these people in the beginning, their actions make me realize that the 99% have nothing. Our voices don't mean **** when the 1% can easily shut us up with their money and continue manipulating the rules to their advantage.

The 1% and their status quo are here to stay, OWS. It's over.

99 to 1. Those sound like damn good odds to me. This is not the time to give up when we've already gained so much momentum. They may have won this one battle in Zucotti Park, but they have not won the war.

Thursday.

November 17th, 2011.

International Day of Action.

Shut Down Wall Street.