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Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda mastermind, killed in Pakistan

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  • He Won

    In The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer-winning history of al-Qaeda and the road to 9/11, author Lawrence Wright lays out how Osama bin Laden's motivation for the attacks that he planned in the 1990s, and then the September 11 attacks, was to draw the U.S. and the West into a prolonged war—an actual war in Afghanistan, and a broader global war with Islam.
    Osama got both. And we gave him a prolonged war in Iraq to boot. By the end of Obama's first term, we'll probably top 6,000 dead U.S. troops in those two wars, along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. The cost for both wars is also now well over $1 trillion.
    We have also fundamentally altered who we are. A partial, off-the-top-of-my-head list of how we've changed since September 11 . . .

    • We've sent terrorist suspects to "black sites" to be detained without trial and tortured.
    • We've turned terrorist suspects over to other regimes, knowing that they'd be tortured.
    • In those cases when our government later learned it got the wrong guy, federal officials not only refused to apologize or compensate him, they went to court to argue he should be barred from using our courts to seek justice, and that the details of his abduction, torture, and detainment should be kept secret.
    • We've abducted and imprisoned dozens, perhaps hundreds of men in Guantanamo who turned out to have been innocent. Again, the government felt no obligation to do right by them.
    • The government launched a multimillion dollar ad campaign implying that people who smoke marijuana are complicit in the murder of nearly 3,000 of their fellow citizens.
    • The government illegally spied and eavesdropped on thousands of American citizens.
    • Presidents from both of the two major political parties have claimed the power to detain suspected terrorists and hold them indefinitely without trial, based solely on the president's designation of them as an "enemy combatant," essentially making the president prosecutor, judge, and jury. (I'd also argue that the treatment of someone like Bradley Manning wouldn't have been tolerated before September 11.)
    • The current president has also claimed the power to execute U.S. citizens, off the battlefield, without a trial, and to prevent anyone from knowing about it after the fact.
    • The Congress approved, the president signed, and the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a broadly written law making it a crime to advocate for any organization the government deems sympathetic to terrorism. This includes challenging the "terrorist" designation in the first place.
    • Flying in America now means enduring a humiliating and hassling ritual that does little if anything to actually make flying any safer. Every time the government fails to catch an attempt at terrorism, it punishes the public for its failure by adding to the ritual.
    • American Muslims, a heartening story of success and assimilation, are now harassed and denigrated for merely trying to build houses of worship.
    • Without a warrant, the government can search and seize indefinitely the laptops and other personal electronic devices of anyone entering the country.
    • The Department of Homeland Security now gives terrorism-fighting grants for local police departments across the country to purchase military equipment, such as armored personnel carriers, which is then used against U.S. citizens, mostly to serve drug warrants.
    I'm relieved that bin Laden is dead. And the Navy SEALs who carried out the harrowing raid that ended his life have my respect and admiration. And for all the massive waste and abuse our government has perpetrated in the name of fighting terrorism over the last decade, there's something satisfying in knowing that he was killed in a limited, targeted operation based on specific intelligence.
    But because of the actions of one guy, we allowed all the bullet points above to happen. That we managed to kill him a decade after the September 11 attacks is symbolically important, but hardly seems worth the celebrations we saw across the country last night. There was something unsettling about watching giddy crowds bounce around beach balls and climb telephone polls last night, as if they were in the lawn seats at a rock festival. Solemn and somber appreciation that an evil man is gone seemed like the more appropriate reaction.
    Yes, bin Laden the man is dead. But he achieved all he set out to achieve, and a hell of a lot more. He forever changed who we are as a country, and for the worse. Mostly because we let him. That isn't something a special ops team can fix.

    What he is saying is quite true to be honest. That's what seriously pains me to know.
     
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    Blaziken15

    You gotta purty mouth!
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  • I was very happy when I heard the news that he was dead. I did cheer. But I know it isn't over yet. It is only the beginning. But I could say that we took out the main person of the group, and I know someone else will take his place. We just need to get him too.

    The thing about someone taking his place is it might not happen for a while. That would mean the al-Qaeda would become disorganized and won't be able to do their tasks to the full extent or not at all for that matter.
     
    22,953
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  • The thing about someone taking his place is it might not happen for a while. That would mean the al-Qaeda would become disorganized and won't be able to do their tasks to the full extent or not at all for that matter.

    Supposedly they already had circumvented him in Al-Qaeda because he had fallen out of favor with the organization, which wouldn't surprise me.
     

    Steven

    [i]h e l p[/i]
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  • The thing about someone taking his place is it might not happen for a while. That would mean the al-Qaeda would become disorganized and won't be able to do their tasks to the full extent or not at all for that matter.
    There are sections of al-Qaeda that had little to no contact with Osama bin Laden, yet could pull off highly organized attacks.
     

    Crystalized

    Waiting For RSE Remake
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  • I saw on the news last night these quotes from al-Queda members:

    The celebrations are amusing. Celebrate while you can, foolish Americans.
    Pakistan will be our first target, and America our second.

    Scary stuff, so a Pakistan attack should signal that al-Queda is coming for America.


    There was huge emphasis on capturing him, not killing him due to he needed to be trialed in these countries:
    • Libya
    • America
    • Sudan
    • Afghanistan
    • Saudi Arabia
    • Pakistan
    and many more.
     
    13,373
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    They've been saying that they're going to come after the U.S. for many years now and they have yet to make a move, so I'm not really concerned about that. But, them going for Pakistan could be a bit of trouble. I'd fear that they'd move on to India but I highly doubt they would.
     

    Nutella

    ♫ Purple Hurple ♫
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  • While I wish there had been another way to secure Osama, I do understand that the soldiers must have felt it necessary to do what they did. I mean, considering he used his own wife as a shield, I don't think he'd have many qualms about killing American soldiers. It's a solemn action that shouldn't be taken lightly, but it was necessary imo.

    I believe that they were ordered to kill him, no? I had this discussion with my family, and it really does seem as though there were no other ways, considering that bin Laden would be unlikely to spill if they did "interrogate" them. I'm sure al-Qaeda would have tried to secure his freedom too.

    There was huge emphasis on capturing him, not killing him due to he needed to be trialed in these countries

    I initially thought of this, but whom would give bin Laden representation without getting abused in some way? Him being executed was only a matter of time. The trials would not have brought anybody back, and there could be a risk of somebody coming to free him- with deadly results.

    They've been saying that they're going to come after the U.S. for many years now and they have yet to make a move, so I'm not really concerned about that.

    I'm sure something as horrendous as 9/11 wouldn't take overnight to plan- it would take months, and maybe years. How can you not be concerned, given that they're outraged that a man they viewed as their almighty leader was killed by their enemy?
     

    Echidna

    i don't care what's in your hair
    2,077
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  • I'm not really sure if you guys have seen the news, but killing Osama Bin Ladin did NOTHING !! Yesterday, Osama's former right hand man, Ayman Al-Zawahiri announced taking leadership of Al-Quida. Ha !! Osama's death may only cause some confusion in the lines of the organization, but nothing permanent. I take back my statement earlier on this being the start of the end of 70 % of terrorism, its the start of more.

    Why ? You may ask. Well this guy, Ayman Al-Zawahiri is even more murderous than
    Osama. I did my research, and it turns out that he was behind most Al-Quida attacks, as in he was the architect so to speak. When the Russians tried to invade Pakistan, he was the one who lead the counter attack and blasted the hell out of them. Ha !! This guy's more of a lunatic than Osama, and is more likely to cause destruction than his prior leader.

    Oh and there's also word (only rumor) that the US government had already captured Osama and investigated with him, and when it seemed hopeless, they released him to that so called safe house and killed him, covering up on them having him captive before. I'm not sure about this.

    Also another rumor (a lot of conspiracy maniacs are providing proof of this). After Osama's body was shown on TV as to have been shot by a sniper in the head before the attack (during that attack, but before the bombs), it was revealed that the photo wasn't real, and was put together to make it look like so. So the rumor has it, Osama is still alive and in US custody. Lets face it, it would be much easier for them to investigate with him freely when they've faked his death, cause they wouldn't have to follow international human rights laws and such.
     
    14,092
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  • I'm not really sure if you guys have seen the news, but killing Osama Bin Ladin did NOTHING !! Yesterday, Osama's former right hand man, Ayman Al-Zawahiri announced taking leadership of Al-Quida. Ha !! Osama's death may only cause some confusion in the lines of the organization, but nothing permanent. I take back my statement earlier on this being the start of the end of 70 % of terrorism, its the start of more.

    Why ? You may ask. Well this guy, Ayman Al-Zawahiri is even more murderous than
    Osama. I did my research, and it turns out that he was behind most Al-Quida attacks, as in he was the architect so to speak. When the Russians tried to invade Pakistan, he was the one who lead the counter attack and blasted the hell out of them. Ha !! This guy's more of a lunatic than Osama, and is more likely to cause destruction than his prior leader.

    Oh and there's also word (only rumor) that the US government had already captured Osama and investigated with him, and when it seemed hopeless, they released him to that so called safe house and killed him, covering up on them having him captive before. I'm not sure about this.

    Also another rumor (a lot of conspiracy maniacs are providing proof of this). After Osama's body was shown on TV as to have been shot by a sniper in the head before the attack (during that attack, but before the bombs), it was revealed that the photo wasn't real, and was put together to make it look like so. So the rumor has it, Osama is still alive and in US custody. Lets face it, it would be much easier for them to investigate with him freely when they've faked his death, cause they wouldn't have to follow international human rights laws and such.

    Rumors are Rumors. Therefore unfounded. Bin Laden is as dead as a doorknob and at the bottom of the Arabian Sea.

    Al-Zawahiri is posturing, nothing more. He doesn't possess the charisma or the capital to bankroll Al Qaeda like Bin Laden could.
     

    Oryx

    CoquettishCat
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    I'm not really sure if you guys have seen the news, but killing Osama Bin Ladin did NOTHING !! Yesterday, Osama's former right hand man, Ayman Al-Zawahiri announced taking leadership of Al-Quida. Ha !! Osama's death may only cause some confusion in the lines of the organization, but nothing permanent. I take back my statement earlier on this being the start of the end of 70 % of terrorism, its the start of more.

    Why ? You may ask. Well this guy, Ayman Al-Zawahiri is even more murderous than
    Osama. I did my research, and it turns out that he was behind most Al-Quida attacks, as in he was the architect so to speak. When the Russians tried to invade Pakistan, he was the one who lead the counter attack and blasted the hell out of them. Ha !! This guy's more of a lunatic than Osama, and is more likely to cause destruction than his prior leader.

    Oh and there's also word (only rumor) that the US government had already captured Osama and investigated with him, and when it seemed hopeless, they released him to that so called safe house and killed him, covering up on them having him captive before. I'm not sure about this.

    Also another rumor (a lot of conspiracy maniacs are providing proof of this). After Osama's body was shown on TV as to have been shot by a sniper in the head before the attack (during that attack, but before the bombs), it was revealed that the photo wasn't real, and was put together to make it look like so. So the rumor has it, Osama is still alive and in US custody. Lets face it, it would be much easier for them to investigate with him freely when they've faked his death, cause they wouldn't have to follow international human rights laws and such.

    Why are you laughing at that...? This is the opposite of a laughing matter, or a gloating matter, which seems like what your "Ha !!"s are. Pretty rude.

    There's no way to prove someone isn't dead by saying one picture is fake. It's speculation, nothing more, by some conspiracy theorists who probably also believe that the government is behind 9/11.

    I would also like to point out that when a terrorist joins Al Qaeda, they make a pledge of allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Not Al Qaeda itself, but him. I don't have any point to make about that, just throwing it out there.
     

    Echidna

    i don't care what's in your hair
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  • Rumors are Rumors. Therefore unfounded. Bin Laden is as dead as a doorknob and at the bottom of the Arabian Sea.

    Al-Zawahiri is posturing, nothing more. He doesn't possess the charisma or the capital to bankroll Al Qaeda like Bin Laden could.

    Al-Quida's financial issues were never taken care of by Osama Bin Ladin, they were always handled by the enemies of Al-Qaeda's enemies. Osama Bin Ladin was nothing but some general or soldier when he just jumped up with some terrorist organization. This was no twist of fate nor did Osama win the lottery.

    Whoever funded them before, will still fund them now. And besides, he's already announced taking it over. The media was foggy about how he announced it, but just that he did. That isn't a rumor. And like i said, it will be a temporary set back, but not a permanent one.

    Live_Wire466 said:
    Bin Laden is as dead as a doorknob and at the bottom of the Arabian Sea.

    Dude, it was made very very clear by the media that the photo of him dead was fake. Why the hell would they fake it if he were actually dead. Couldn't they have just shown a real photo. Besides, their actions put them in a very Shady position.

    If you go over the history of this matter, you'll see that many rumors of his death have been passed around. This time, Obama himself announced it. In my opinion, these rumors were started by them and for their own ends (to fake his death and thus have full control on what they do to him). Finally, after all rumors were ruined by him or his followers, and by the press for that matter, Obama had to announce it to authenticate it.

    This is also a rumor, and i don't believe it, but some people say Saddam Hussein is still alive. You never know what the US government's thinking !!



    Why are you laughing at that...? This is the opposite of a laughing matter, or a gloating matter, which seems like what your "Ha !!"s are. Pretty rude.

    There's no way to prove someone isn't dead by saying one picture is fake. It's speculation, nothing more, by some conspiracy theorists who probably also believe that the government is behind 9/11.

    I would also like to point out that when a terrorist joins Al Qaeda, they make a pledge of allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Not Al Qaeda itself, but him. I don't have any point to make about that, just throwing it out there.

    That 'Ha !!' is not a laugh. Its more of a 'this did no good' and a 'we're not stupid' 'Ha !'. And i never said i was sure or that i believed it, but just because some conspiracy maniac said it doesn't make it impossible, it's a theory and point of view to be considered, and not lightly for that matter.

    And would you at least try to understand what some one means before calling them rude, cause that by itself is rude. And me having an opinion, whatever that opinion is, can't be called rude, cause then, all theories that philosophers come up with which oppose religion would be Satan worshipping now wouldn't they. Don't you take philosophy at school ? Opinions can't be taken for what they are or who they're for, but are considered according to what is meant to result from them, and i mean no harm.

    I post my opinion and get called rude, this is very nice. :(
     

    Oryx

    CoquettishCat
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    And would you at least try to understand what some one means before calling them rude, cause that by itself is rude. And me having an opinion, whatever that opinion is, can't be called rude, cause then, all theories that philosophers come up with which oppose religion would be Satan worshipping now wouldn't they. Don't you take philosophy at school ? Opinions can't be taken for what they are or who they're for, but are considered according to what is meant to result from them, and i mean no harm.

    I post my opinion and get called rude, this is very nice. :(

    ...What? I was saying that you putting "Ha", which is generally accepted as the onomatopoeic word for laughing. When you write "He led the counter-attack. Ha !!" It's generally understood as you saying that and then laughing. Laughing about the fact that a terrorist attack was led by someone that's now leading Al Qaeda is in fact rude, and probably offensive to other people that may have had relatives involved. You're free to criticize my opinion of what you said, but I honestly have no idea what you're saying about philosophy. I have a right to tell you that what you said was rude, just as you have a right to disagree with me and try to correct me. That has absolutely nothing to do with philosophers that create theories that lead to atheism and I have no idea where that connection is coming from.

    I'm not replying to your conspiracy theories, because that's just what they are. There's no point arguing with someone who thinks every shred of proof is a lie, they won't listen to anything you say because they've already discounted proof as "not enough" to verify something. Have fun with that.
     
    14,092
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  • Al-Quida's financial issues were never taken care of by Osama Bin Ladin, they were always handled by the enemies of Al-Qaeda's enemies. Osama Bin Ladin was nothing but some general or soldier when he just jumped up with some terrorist organization. This was no twist of fate nor did Osama win the lottery.

    Whoever funded them before, will still fund them now. And besides, he's already announced taking it over. The media was foggy about how he announced it, but just that he did. That isn't a rumor. And like i said, it will be a temporary set back, but not a permanent one.

    Osama Bin Laden is the founder of Al Qaeda, he didn't just up and join one day. Also, He was fabulously wealthy, being a member of the Bin Laden family. His family runs the Saudi based BinLaden Group, an oil firm that grosses about 5 Billion dollars annually, so he had plenty of money, and he used that money, along with funding from other parts of the Arab world, to finance Al Qaeda. That's why he was caught in a mansion, not a cave.

    Protip
    Pro Advice:

    Don't spread unfounded rumors or conspiracy theories that you really know nothing about.
     
    Last edited:

    Echidna

    i don't care what's in your hair
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  • ...What? I was saying that you putting "Ha", which is generally accepted as the onomatopoeic word for laughing. When you write "He led the counter-attack. Ha !!" It's generally understood as you saying that and then laughing. Laughing about the fact that a terrorist attack was led by someone that's now leading Al Qaeda is in fact rude, and probably offensive to other people that may have had relatives involved. You're free to criticize my opinion of what you said, but I honestly have no idea what you're saying about philosophy. I have a right to tell you that what you said was rude, just as you have a right to disagree with me and try to correct me. That has absolutely nothing to do with philosophers that create theories that lead to atheism and I have no idea where that connection is coming from.

    I'm not replying to your conspiracy theories, because that's just what they are. There's no point arguing with someone who thinks every shred of proof is a lie, they won't listen to anything you say because they've already discounted proof as "not enough" to verify something. Have fun with that.

    FOR THE LAST TIME I WASN'T LAUGHING NOR MEANT ANYTHING IN A BAD SENSE OR MANNER !!! JEEZ !!!

    Live_Wire466 said:
    Pro Advice:

    Don't spread unfounded rumors or conspiracy theories that you really know nothing about.

    When some one says: 'there is a rumor that says such and such'. I'm not spreading them, i'm spreading the idea that they exist. What's wrong about a fact. This fact being that such a rumor exists, which it does. Bin Ladin's fortune, however big it is, couldn't possibly cover even half of Al-Qaeda's needs. Yes, like you said, it is being financed, but not by arab countries (I live in the arab world, you can either choose to believe me, or keep up the smart talk and criticize everything i say). Organizations who are against the US and other enemies of Al-Qaeda fund it, not the governments (maybe some governments, but none i've heard of here). People here (as in everyone) despise Al-Qaeda, i have no idea why people think arabs and muslims are terrorists.
     

    The Trotsky

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  • When some one says: 'there is a rumor that says such and such'. I'm not spreading them, i'm spreading the idea that they exist. What's wrong about a fact. This fact being that such a rumor exists, which it does. Bin Ladin's fortune, however big it is, couldn't possibly cover even half of Al-Qaeda's needs. Yes, like you said, it is being financed, but not by arab countries (I live in the arab world, you can either choose to believe me, or keep up the smart talk and criticize everything i say). Organizations who are against the US and other enemies of Al-Qaeda fund it, not the governments (maybe some governments, but none i've heard of here). People here (as in everyone) despise Al-Qaeda, i have no idea why people think arabs and muslims are terrorists.

    a) Technicalities are technicalities, but spreading rumors and spreading the existence of rumors have the exact same effect haha.

    b) And Bin Laden's fortune most certainly could cover all of Al Qaeda's start up costs before he received funding from other areas. His family owns Saudi Arabia's largest construction company as well as an oil conglomerate.

    c) The population as a whole may not support him, but obviously some fundamentalists will, enough to fund him and provide him with recruits. He doesn't rule by admiration, he ruled and recruited by fear. You can never say a people unilaterally hates one man or supports one cause

    d) If governments wanted to fund a terrorist organization that is Public Enemy No. 1 for the greatest power in the world, they would not do so overtly

    e) You can't just say if you criticize me you're wrong lolol, debates don't work that way
     
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  • To quote one of my favorite Stargate episodes, "The Road not Taken"

    HAMMOND
    The threat is still out there!​
    CARTER
    That's the problem! It always will be!​

    We'll be staying in the Middle East with Hundreds of thousands of troops for a while more to continue the war on a verb.
     
    14,092
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  • To quote one of my favorite Stargate episodes, "The Road not Taken"



    We'll be staying in the Middle East with Hundreds of thousands of troops for a while more to continue the war on a verb.

    As bad as that sounds, it's right. We will be bogged down in Middle Easter affairs for a long time to come, who knows how long.
     
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