PC Wiki

[Livewire]

*sigh* I'd hoped to actually kill this idea with my last post, I even graciously ignored your tireless rebuttals in the hope this thread would fall into the oblivion below. But I see I can do that no more.

What makes you think you have the "authority" to do? That decision on what to do regarding this issue is entirely up to us. If we decide that a wiki is something we'd like to do, then we will do it. If you don't like it, then don't go look at it. Problem solved.

 

[Cura]

Yeah, that's why I find them compelling.

I may of worded that wrong. I'm sorry about that.

...Um, we have a Battle Wiki? O___o

Eeyup. Here's the link. https://battlewiki.pokecommunity.com/wiki/Main_Page

If it does go beyond hacking I'm willing to help moderate it if it needs it, because I don't have any hacking knowledge so I couldn't help with that part. xD But I doubt we'd lack manpower on it tbh.

I'm a good hacker and like I said in the short run it is possible. (I'll like to help then.) However, in the long
run... it's just not possible to manage, unless it was used only for resources.

 

[Nick]

Eeyup. Here's the link. https://battlewiki.pokecommunity.com/wiki/Main_Page

lol. We eventually forgot about the wiki we were working on before, too. I think there's a pattern here, and because of that, I sincerely doubt that it would affect the server as much as people think it would, given the nature of how our past wikis faded away from memory.

 

[Cura]

lol. We eventually forgot about the wiki we were working on before, too. I think there's a pattern here, and because of that, I sincerely doubt that it would affect the server as much as people think it would, given the nature of how our past wikis faded away from memory.

So, due to that nature... I'd expect if we had a wiki if would eventually be forgotten and fade away from memory of the staff. In way... I've been thinking about the server as well.... it don't think the server will be overloaded the traffic on the wiki and forum. But, in truth... I think the wiki's traffic will not be as heavy as it is on the forums.

 

[Oryx]

I'm a good hacker and like I said in the short run it is possible. (I'll like to help then.) However, in the long
run... it's just not possible to manage, unless it was used only for resources.

Why is it "not possible" to manage? I don't understand where you're getting this definite impossibility.

 

[Cura]

Why is it "not possible" to manage? I don't understand where you're getting this definite impossibility.

Where I'm getting the "not possible" is that in the long run, some staff will eventually forget about the wiki. For example... BattleWiki apparently was forgotten by the staff.

We eventually forgot about the wiki we were working on before, too.

As Patchisou Yutohru said, BattleWiki was eventually forgotten by the staff and it faded away from memory, so in the long run it is possible that the Wiki could be forgotten and fall into disrepair and mismanagement.

 

[Livewire]

As Patchisou Yutohru said, BattleWiki was eventually forgotten by the staff and it faded away from memory, so in the long run it is possible that the Wiki could be forgotten and fall into disrepair and mismanagement.

It ended up like that because it wasn't a full staff undertaking, it was basically a side project of Sotomura's before he went inactive. We have around 50 staff members here on PC. I'm pretty sure if it was a full staff undertaking it would be taken care of.

To be honest this whole thread is essentially irrelevant because we ALREADY HAVE a wiki.

 

[Oryx]

Where I'm getting the "not possible" is that in the long run, some staff will eventually forget about the wiki. For example... BattleWiki apparently was forgotten by the staff.



As Patchisou Yutohru said, BattleWiki was eventually forgotten by the staff and it faded away from memory, so in the long run it is possible that the Wiki could be forgotten and fall into disrepair and mismanagement.

I guess I'm seeing it differently because my opinion on this is "wikis were forgotten before? what can we do to make this one not forgotten?" not "wikis were forgotten before? better not try again".

Saying "it's possible that it could be forgotten" is different from "it's impossible to manage". Imo, it would be a different wiki, run by different people, contributed to by different people, at a different time, so it can't really be compared unless the entire goal is to revive past wikis exactly as they were back then.

I don't think speculation of what may happen months in the future should deter anyone from trying an idea like this, that will be useful as long as it lasts.

 

[Nick]

To be honest this whole thread is essentially irrelevant because we ALREADY HAVE a wiki.

Really good point. I guess now it's a matter of just changing the purpose of it, or at the very least expanding it. I guess I'll go make an HQ thread about it now then...

 

[Ooka]

As far as I know a couple mods (Luke and someone else) were permitted to make a wiki but just were too lazy to finish I guess? I dunno, but I do know a wiki was being worked on at one time and now is absolutely no where to be found.

And then of course there's the https://www.pokecommunity.com/wiki that has been blocked from access for years, that of course seems to have no development going on.

Edit: Hm, according to the last post there is one already? :/ Where?

 

[avengeraziel]

Your argument about a previous wiki is invalid, that was a SMALL wiki which I presume only the staff had any ability to access. No serious traffic there, so it wasn't a problem to the server it was on.

As for killing it, I never claimed to have that power directly, but I still can express myself and pray that more of the powers agree with me.

The wiki would not generate so much traffic as to kill PC, seeing as most of the people that would be on it are already on PC. Wikis, even fully developed wikis, are pitiful MBs of info. Half of PC's problems I'm sure are the customized user pages and crazy sigs that are resource hogs. The wiki would have none of that.

Also your bashing of my making my case, and calling my posts 'tiresome' really only points to your inability to correctly address my, and others, concerns and points.

and i agree with Patchisou Yutohru: if you're never on the Emulation forum, then what do you really have to say? You don't know how actually frustrating it is to dig through all the crap for the nugget of gold, and you don't know how cluttered it is with posts that don't help.

You're only true argument is manpower, and several people, including myself, have offered their time to help this become something worth typing about. Your personal lack of interest does not make this an unworthwhile endeavor.

Eeyup. Here's the link. https://battlewiki.pokecommunity.com/wiki/Main_Page


I'm a good hacker and like I said in the short run it is possible. (I'll like to help then.) However, in the long
run... it's just not possible to manage, unless it was used only for resources.

Why can we not re-purpose the wiki if it exists already and isn't being used?

And management on a wiki is *incredibly* easy, especially if there are different sections in it, with different moderators for the different sections.

It ended up like that because it wasn't a full staff undertaking, it was basically a side project of Sotomura's before he went inactive. We have around 50 staff members here on PC. I'm pretty sure if it was a full staff undertaking it would be taken care of.

A full staff undertaking would not necessarily be needed, unless mods from other forums wanted to put some stuff in there too. The wiki would just need the word put out on it, so people know it is a thing, and then it *wouldn't* necessarily fade away. No product or feature sells itself until it become indispensable.

Mew~:

As for the idea list that I have had up on a couple of my posts, they are only meant to be suggested ideas for the use of the wiki. This IS me suggesting this to moderators and the community at large. Stickys are not wiki pages, and can't be even a decent substitute for them. I am actively calling for a dissolution of those types of sticky pages, because unless the original author changes the post, stickys just become conversations too, and becomes ridiculous as a sticky page.

 

[Melody]

Avengeraziel: Don't confuse opposition with disinterest.
You don't just replace sticky threads with Wiki pages.
Just because a few people say they're interested doesn't mean they're all you need, or all it's going to take to get it up and running.

Pachisou: You can't know for certain that a Wiki won't cause extra load on the server once it becomes known. You can't honestly expect the emulation mods to do all the posting themselves...the section is massive.

Live: I don't need "Authority" to express my opinion. I intend to keep doing so as long as I must, until either all of my concerns are addressed or the idea dies. I'm obviously for the latter because I have no faith in the project but if people could do more than just rebut I might be convinced.

You all act like I've never been in the ROM hacking section before...I've been here going on 7 years.
I know how the forum is, and I know it's NOT THAT HARD to SEARCH! Nor is it hard for the moderators of that section to maintain as many stickies as is necessary to keep things functioning.
Lack of posts in that section does not mean I haven't lurked there before. Nor does it mean I don't lurk there from time to time, just to keep current.

If the Hacking sections are a mess then there needs to be more classification, perhaps even more subforums so that people CAN find threads they need. The failure is not in the primary function of a forum.

I still have absolutely no faith in this project. As Yoshi-san has pointed out, we are in possession of TWO wikis that seem to have failed in their purpose. (If the /wiki that 401s is not just locked to staff only use). The BattleWiki it seems has been up for 7 months on apparently the back burner. I'm surprised actually...I'd at least expect that Jake would have picked some capable assistants for the project, even if it is only his pet project.

 

[Ooka]

I dunno, I honestly prefer just getting the information and not what all the user has bloated it with in their post. Separating information from discussion (And then having discussions about the information in another location, thus making it easier to navigate) seems like a good idea imo.

 

[Oryx]

Avengeraziel: Don't confuse opposition with disinterest.
You don't just replace sticky threads with Wiki pages.
Just because a few people say they're interested doesn't mean they're all you need, or all it's going to take to get it up and running.

Him/Us saying "there will be enough people" and you saying "there won't be enough people" will get us literally nowhere so this should probably be dropped. We can't know who would be interested merely from a thread here, for all we know the person who would contribute the most to the project never leaves the Emulation forum. Nothing can be proven either way unless it's tried, which you're obviously against so might as well just drop it.

Pachisou: You can't know for certain that a Wiki won't cause extra load on the server once it becomes known. You can't honestly expect the emulation mods to do all the posting themselves...the section is massive.

He said he doubted it, not that he knows for certain it won't. This is another point that can't be proven unless the wiki is tried and shown to cause too much stunfisk. All we have is speculation and all you have is speculation, so this point is also going nowhere.

Live: I don't need "Authority" to express my opinion. I intend to keep doing so as long as I must, until either all of my concerns are addressed or the idea dies. I'm obviously for the latter because I have no faith in the project but if people could do more than just rebut I might be convinced.

You are also merely rebutting. No one can do more than that, what else are you looking for? All we can do is show our side, and all you can do is show yours, so we're doing no more or less than you are.

You all act like I've never been in the ROM hacking section before...I've been here going on 7 years.
I know how the forum is, and I know it's NOT THAT HARD to SEARCH! Nor is it hard for the moderators of that section to maintain as many stickies as is necessary to keep things functioning.
Lack of posts in that section does not mean I haven't lurked there before. Nor does it mean I don't lurk there from time to time, just to keep current.

If the Hacking sections are a mess then there needs to be more classification, perhaps even more subforums so that people CAN find threads they need. The failure is not in the primary function of a forum.

Valid point, but if a wiki is a more efficient way to organize the information, then why rule it out as an option? Although to be fair, lurking a forum doesn't mean you know how frustrating or easy it is to find information. I would appreciate this expanded on by someone who actually posts often in that section, as I don't look at it, but if you're not looking for actual information yourself, just lurking, then you can't really say much about how easy/hard it is to find information. Well you can it just doesn't mean much

I still have absolutely no faith in this project. As Yoshi-san has pointed out, we are in possession of TWO wikis that seem to have failed in their purpose. (If the /wiki that 401s is not just locked to staff only use). The BattleWiki it seems has been up for 7 months on apparently the back burner. I'm surprised actually...I'd at least expect that Jake would have picked some capable assistants for the project, even if it is only his pet project.

I can confirm that at least at moderator level I don't have access to that page either, for the record. Live explained the reasoning behind the BattleWiki...it was taken up by one person, and abandoned by one person. If someone gave up on making a style for PC, does that mean that no one should ever again try to make styles? One person not keeping up with his own project is not sufficient to rule that no one else can work on a similar project ever.

Like I said before, different people, different community, different purpose. The only similarity is that it's in wikipedia format. If you have an example of a hack-based wiki that failed in the past, then I would take that into much more account (not sure if that's grammatically correct but you know what I mean), but as of now that wiki isn't really similar enough for the analogy to work. A wise man (also known as my Philosophy professor) once told me that "a conclusion drawn through analogy is only as strong as the similarity". Other than it being a wiki, how is the battlewiki similar to the idea of a community hacking wiki?

 

[Palamon]

I'd say no. You could always post information about this forum on Bulbapedia, though.

 

[Nick]

Pachisou: You can't know for certain that a Wiki won't cause extra load on the server once it becomes known. You can't honestly expect the emulation mods to do all the posting themselves...the section is massive.

Nooooooooooo ****. Really!? You think? ...Well slap me silly I had no idea.

I said: "Do I think a Wiki like that will have that kind of traffic? No, I don't, but nothing is saying it couldn't. That reason alone is enough to sway an reasonable person to vote no to the idea." Damn Pachy, even when someone is agreeing with you you have an argument for it, don't you?

 

[avengeraziel]

How is it reasonable to say no to something because we don't know about it?

Say goodbye to NASA, computers, and every technological advance by mankind, ever, including fire itself.

Where is your spirit?
Have you all become stuck in a quagmire of 'this is how Pokemon is and f you if you think differently' ? I thought you were *against* dictating how the fandom operates pachy? You've done nothing but dictate in this entire thread...

The Potential benefits are astronomical and could completely revive the petering emulation community, the backbone of this place.

I would hope that it would be an obvious and nearly painless solution to help new users, but you want to tie their hands behind their back for...what?
Especially if there is already a wiki in place.... Why cant the community decide how it's used instead of a user who had a pet project one time?

But youre right, 'change bad!'

 

[Nick]

Don't get too worked up, avengeraziel. The wiki is already there, so it's not an issue on adding it or not, and the people who have a say in what happens don't see any problems with keeping it. I think most of our concerns are if it will go unnoticed and if people are actually going to use it.

 

[Oryx]

Would it be more effective if there was a thread or an announcement in the sections that it's relevant in? That would definitely let you know who would use it in the group of people it would be mainly directed towards.

 

[Nick]

We're trying to establish where it's relevant in. After we all get over the shock of discovering that we have one.