Platifail : Stall

[Dark Azelf]

Well ive been really offensive with the teams i have built lately, so i thought id try something different.


Team Overview.

Team in depth.

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Azumarill (M) @ Leftovers

Ability: Huge Power

EVs: 240 HP / 16 Attack / 100 Defense / 152 Special Defense

Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)

• Encore <-- One of the best moves in the entire game. This makes switching in easy and set ups by opponents fail. Calm Mind cune ? No Problem. SR Leads without Taunt ? No problem. Sub DD Kingdra ? Rofl =]. This move causes one heck of alot of switches.
• Body Slam<-- Ever faced one of those annoying as hell Clefable with Encore and T-Wave ? Well Body Slam emulates t-wave, so if you try and set up you get paralysed and then encored, thus getting royally screwed.
• Ice Punch<-- I looked at this team and though "aaaa physical dragons". Ice Punch smashes said physical dragons.
• Waterfall<--Waterfall is its best STAB move and provide paraflinch with body slam.

Annoying as hell Azumarril, paraflinch and providing support with Encore is win.

Water + Ice + Normal have awesome coverage too, so all in all this set is a BIG irritating pain lol. Its also leading because nothing else has merit as a lead on my team unfortunately.

The evs always survive a LO Nasty Plotted Grass Knot from Mixape even with SR up and CC will fail to 2hko aswell. That gives you a taster of just HOW bulky this is and how well this can take hits.

This came about with me seeing how useful this thing is after a convo on msn with BeachBoy and Lalapizzame.
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Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers

Ability: Thick Fat

EVs: 76 HP / 252 Defense / 180 Special Defense

Impish nature (+Defense, -Special Attack)

• Whirlwind<--This is a good PHazing move and on a pokemon as bulky as Hariyama, its put to good use. Great for shuffling assorted spikes around too.
• Rest<-- Rest allows me to heal and shrug off damage i have taken.
• Sleep Talk<-- STalk makes this a really cool sleep absorber and so i can attack whilst im asleep.
• Cross Chop / Force Palm <--I dont really need to say what this is for, but anyways its for STAB and T-Tar etc. I could use Force Palm too for the paralysis so ill test to see which is more beneficial.

Ah, Hariyama THE best tyranitar counter in the game no questions asked, more bulky than Machamp and comes with built in PHazing. What more utility do you want ? Never the less this has always showed its worth its weight in gold for me. The evs allow me to tank equally on both sides of the attacking spectrum.
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Celebi @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 6 Special Attack

Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)

• Thunder Wave<--Again some more paralysis support and helps a great deal. Without this move celebi is a sucky Gyarados counter, but with it, its a very good check. Thunderwave is one of the most underated moves on Celebi seriously since it cripples common switch ins, infernape, heatran, scizor but to name a few. Celebi can also cripple DD Mence and kingdra with this too, so it makes a cool check to these, aswell as being able to take some lucario since SD Crunch does not OHKO.
• Recover<-- Iprefer this >> Leech Seed, because its instant healing and helps so, so much with countering things.
• Perish Song<-- I see so many stall teams without this move and it makes me sad. Perish Song messes up ingrain baton pass teams and stops the infamous "Last pokemon Curselax/CalmCune sweep" [/GSC] LOL, because otherwise i wouldnt be able to phaze if something statted up on me if it was the last poke.
• Grass Knot<-- Gets stab and decimates Gyarados and poops on other bulky waters, lol swampert lol =3.

Even WITH Scizor rampant Celebi is still awesome as heck. Not only does it again have some very useful support options but is key in this team
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Forretress (M) @ Shed Shell

Ability: Sturdy

EVs: 252 HP / 58 Attack / 200 Defense

(0 ivs in speed)

Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)

• Stealth Rock<-- SR is such a broken move, so why not use it ? >=]. It hits everything and causes anything in the range of 3% - 50% damage on things that switch. Either way it DOES cause alot of damage.
• Spikes<--Take into account Stealth Rock does 13% on neutral pokemon and with 3 layers of spikes anything non levitating will effectively strip 38% each time they switch. So most things really wont last long with that amount of residual damage stacking up.
• Rapid Spin<--This removes entry hazards that the foe wants to set up on me.
• Gyro Ball<-- Well i was going to use Bug Bite here, but Gyro Ball is still more useful imo.

LOL Forry. But oh well, its assorted spikes and Rapid Spin made this thing appeal to me even if it IS glorified set up fodder =x. However, the utility options it gets, aswell as the resistances bring alot to this team. Shed Shell is because i fear Magnezone.
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Rotom-h @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 HP / 70 Defense / 188 Speed

Timid nature (+Speed, -Attack)

• Reflect<-- Stops Pursuiters cold aswell as helping the rest of my team.
• Discharge<--This gets stab, and so rotom is quite capable of bringing down Gyarados if needed to.Chosen >> T-Bolt for the paralysis rate.
• Overheat<-- AAAA, Lucario, Scizor and Metagross are no more
• Shadow Ball<-- This is here for STAB, aswell as other things like cress and all the other assorted Phychics/Ghosts.

I have no idea on what im doing with this thing (as you can probably tell). But yeah, it counters Scizor, Lucario and to some extent Heracross, Gallade and Gyarados. It is also one of the best spin blockers one will hope to find. Again having some key immunities and resistances to boot. The ev spread gives me 280 speed =].
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Blissey (F) @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 Defense / 80 Special Attack /176 Special Defense

Calm nature (+Special Defense, -Attack)

• Wish<--Wish keeps my team alive longer and gives Azu and Rotom a recovery move.
• Protect / Softboiled<-- This move is all about healing pretty much. Softboiled is instant so i dont have to protect after Wish to heal which gives the opponent 2 free DD's (one on the protect and one on the switch out), either that or i switch out and not get healed throught the entire match, so softboiled fixes this with me just using softboiled on the switch and then getting the heck out. Softboiled is also great for pp. However, Potect scout for pursuits and cb attacks, so meh =[.
• Seismic Toss<-- Still Blisseys best move and stops me from becoming fodder for Raikou, Torrent Empoleon and taunt or sub tran. It also grants me more net damage with spikes up than a sp.att would.
• Flamethrower / Ice Beam <--I kinda want both, if i choose F-Thrower, dragons have a free switch in, but if i choose Ice Beam Scizor, Metagross and Lucario get a free switch in =/. Ill probably test both. Anyways, the sp.attacks are here to hit ghosts with sub aka Gengar and that i have t-wave support elsewhere.

Still the best sp.wall in the game no questions asked. The support she brings to the team with Wish and the way she walls special attackers is un-rivaled.
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NOTES : - At first i did have Toxic spikes and toxic as the status moves on this team, but i really found that with the advent of platinum, everything was immune or didnt care about it.

T-Spikes was on forry >> SR and SR was on celebi >> Perish song and Perish song was on Azu >> Encore, so yeah, if you care.

Paralysis based stall is MUCH more efficient imo, because some sweepers can cause pain and not be stopped by said Toxic and just stat up and own me whilst paralysis cripples them. Paralysis also allows easier switch ins for walls and tanks. Basically Toxic made me set up fodder more than t-wave did/does xp.


But so far this team has done really well and ive had comments on how hard/annoying to get rid of it is =p.

The key to sucess is easy with this team. Paralyze as much stuff as you can, screw things up any way you can, set spikes and sr up, gogogog causing switches =p.




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[ABYAY]

D_A, I don't understand the meaning of this team and why you ask us to rate it when I see nothing that is extremely threatening. You have a response to stat-uppers, great synergy, and all that fun stuff. However, you are lacking power on the special side. I WOULD suggest a late-game mixed sweeper to clean up the mess that you can't outstall, but removing any of the team would result in a weakness somewhere.

Okay, I guess I can say this: You have nothing to absorb status easily. I'm either missing a cleric move here somewhere or I don't see one at all. Then again, my team-building and team-rating skills have both dropped drastically to almost-fail levels.

 

[Dark Azelf]

D_A, I don't understand the meaning of this team and why you ask us to rate it when I see nothing that is extremely threatening. You have a response to stat-uppers, great synergy, and all that fun stuff. However, you are lacking power on the special side. I WOULD suggest a late-game mixed sweeper to clean up the mess that you can't outstall, but removing any of the team would result in a weakness somewhere.

Okay, I guess I can say this: You have nothing to absorb status easily. I'm either missing a cleric move here somewhere or I don't see one at all. Then again, my team-building and team-rating skills have both dropped drastically to almost-fail levels.

Oh pish posh im sure something can be improved lol

Also Hariyama has Rest-Talk for status and both Celebi and Bliss have Natural Cure =3.

 

[Aurafire]

I'd tend to agree with ABYAY. A stall team like this doesn't leave many weaknesses open, and you have all the major threats covered. Like....all of them. It's a very solid team. I can't see any major problems.

I'd say go with Ice Beam > Flamethrower on Bliss since you have the steels covered with Rotom.

And that's all I can say right now, because there's not much else to rate XD

 

[Dark Azelf]

K im a noob, Encore and Aqua Jet is illegal. X]. But, not to worry since it doesnt make much of a difference.

SOOOOOOO.

- Put Waterfall >> A-Jet.

- Bulked up Azumarill's ev spread and ran some calcs vs mixape, mence, etc and that spread is optimal for taking hits and OHKOing both in return.

 

[DonRoyale]

Curse you, D_A, and your genius.

This is an amazing team. It really is too bad that Encore + Aqua Jet is illegal...:#

I do notice a small problem with Suicune and other Pressure users do give you problems and drain the PP of your offensive moves quite fast. I suggest going with Force Palm on Hariyama, as if you run out of the paltry 8 PP Cross Chop has, you'll be SOL to deal with things like Suicune and Aerodactyl (especially if the latter Taunts you x.X) This is just a small nitpick. If you don't consider this much of a problem, just ignore the critique, then. :P

You have to teach me how to build teams of such utter win like this. /jealousy

 

[.]

Okay, so you don't have Toxic Spikes...Which is just plain gay if you don't mind me saying =[

Anyway, the CB Machamp + CB Hera argument still stands, as each of them are still very menacing to your team:

CB Close Combat vs Forretress 53.67%-63.56%

A 2HKO every single time. Not exactly safe :p

CB Ice Punch vs. Celebi: 48.02%-56.93%

Okay, so this thing has a better chance, woop dee-do.

CB Payback vs. Rotom-O: 51.97%-61.84%

Without Toxic Spikes, Heracross becomes a huge problem still, being able to 2HKO your ENTIRE team.


CB Close Combat vs. Forretress: 51.97%-61.84%

Always a 2HKO =[.

CB Night Slash vs. Rotom-O: 71.05%-84.21%

CB Megahorn vs. Celebi: Do I really need to?


Okay, so fighters give you immense trouble, since a large majority of them posses something to get by Rotom-O. Weezing is your "best" bet against these guys, but over whom?

 

[DonRoyale]

Skarmory, Spikes or Whirlwind/Rest/Talk/Drill Peck

...?

I don't know, the best thing I can think to counter those is something that flies, has good Defense, and doesn't get owned by Stealth Rock. Gliscor WOULD work but it gets owned by CB Champ's Ice Punch.

But then you become TTar weak :#

Vance, you and your calculations need to shove it and shut up. :#

 

[.]

Skarmory, Spikes or Whirlwind/Rest/Talk/Drill Peck

...?

I don't know, the best thing I can think to counter those is something that flies, has good Defense, and doesn't get owned by Stealth Rock. Gliscor WOULD work but it gets owned by CB Champ's Ice Punch.

But then you become TTar weak :#

Vance, you and your calculations need to shove it and shut up. :#

How the hell is Skarmory a Machamp/Heracross counter when each of them 2HKO it easily, and can run Speed EVs to outpace it?

 

[DonRoyale]

because I'm a noob and didn't think it through.

sorry for trying to help, geezus cheezus. :#

you do it, then. since I apparently can't ._.

 

[Anti]

Heracross NEVER carries Night Slash (though it should given the Rotom forms and the relative uselessness of Pursuit but whatever lol). In most cases, I don't see it being a threat. with Night Slash it could be a problem, but it has to predict right and Toxic/SR damage is going to eat away at it in no time. Hera isn't a threat imo

I mean Guts users are always going to be a hindrance to Toxic Spikes reliant stall teams. Even then, I think this team takes them effectively given the disadvantages a stall team is at against them.

One criticism I have is the Hariyama set...it's WAY too easy to set up on. You handle threats well, but your pokemon aren't going to be 100% all the time and the more opportunities you opponent is given to sweep you, the more likely it is that it'll happen. You have Wish support anyways and Hariyama is no sleep absorber. Thunderpunch is great for Gyarados backup, and standard options like Toxic are always useful for a stall team like this.

As with about every stall team, Blissey over reliance is present, so be careful of random Explosion teams and stuff. That'll screw you up if you aren't prepared.

The one actual weakness of this team is the original stall breaker of the generation that seems to be obsolete now, Infernape. Mixape really screws your team over with the exception of Azumarill, and it actually does take a fair amount from Grass Knot. Its EVs help in that regard, but your defense against it is rather slim, so don't let it mess your team up.

Overall a good team. No major weaknesses (though there are a few minor holes, but most DP teams have them anyways and I'm sure it's true with awful Platinum is awful).

STALL STALL STALL

(Team Orb weak imo)

EDIT: About Hera, I think Vance bringing up the point is valid, but I just don't see it doing much to this team given what it has to deal with.

 

[Archer]

Two things:
- Azu shouldn't be leading without Aqua Jet, it defeats the purpose. Encore is better on faster pokemon.
- No Toxpikes absorbtion worries me, as you are pretty much downed by them.

 

[StrickeN]

He doesnt' really need a Toxic Spikes absorber, 4/6ths of his team is immune or can shrug it off via ability/rest

and He has his RS'er named forretress to back that up.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Okay, so you don't have Toxic Spikes...Which is just plain gay if you don't mind me saying =[

Anyway, the CB Machamp + CB Hera argument still stands, as each of them are still very menacing to your team:

CB Close Combat vs Forretress 53.67%-63.56%

A 2HKO every single time. Not exactly safe :p

CB Ice Punch vs. Celebi: 48.02%-56.93%

Okay, so this thing has a better chance, woop dee-do.

CB Payback vs. Rotom-O: 51.97%-61.84%

Without Toxic Spikes, Heracross becomes a huge problem still, being able to 2HKO your ENTIRE team.


CB Close Combat vs. Forretress: 51.97%-61.84%

Always a 2HKO =[.

CB Night Slash vs. Rotom-O: 71.05%-84.21%

CB Megahorn vs. Celebi: Do I really need to?


Okay, so fighters give you immense trouble, since a large majority of them posses something to get by Rotom-O. Weezing is your "best" bet against these guys, but over whom?

Heracross cant switch in on hardly anything without being crippled apart from blissey, but Protect more than helps screw that thing over without me even needing to predict.

Celebi actually eats machamp alive more often than not and is more than bulky enough to mispredict a couple of times, and with forry's resists to ice and payback im more than capable of walling it. Rotom can also come in on anything bar payback. Im also more than capable of predicting myself btw xp and since they have to be choice to even do that damage, resistances and immunities and careful prediction keeps them at bay.

The same can be said about any stall team in reference to the Machamp weak, since weezing and Spiritomb are its only 100% sure fire counters. One just sucks and the other is outclassed pretty much by rotom.




Heck i even have a revenge killer in rotom (who can actually come in anything bar Night Slash, so its more than a good enough counter) so i kinda dont get the Hera one lol

Without Toxic Spikes, Heracross becomes a huge problem still, being able to 2HKO your ENTIRE team.

Umm, but isnt that kinda contradictory since t-spikes just make its attack go even higher lol. T-Wave does aswell but at least it makes it slow.


I get what your saying but i cant see them being problems, nor have either one took out one of my pokes as of yet or swept me.

Curse you, D_A, and your genius.

This is an amazing team. It really is too bad that Encore + Aqua Jet is illegal...:#

I do notice a small problem with Suicune and other Pressure users do give you problems and drain the PP of your offensive moves quite fast. I suggest going with Force Palm on Hariyama, as if you run out of the paltry 8 PP Cross Chop has, you'll be SOL to deal with things like Suicune and Aerodactyl (especially if the latter Taunts you x.X) This is just a small nitpick. If you don't consider this much of a problem, just ignore the critique, then. :P

You have to teach me how to build teams of such utter win like this. /jealousy

Encore and Perish Song absolutely destroy suicune etc and their purpose by forcing them to switch or die. Aero cant stall anything tbh.
Yeah i was annoyed that encore and a-jet was illegal, i was like "nowai =/"

Heracross NEVER carries Night Slash (though it should given the Rotom forms and the relative uselessness of Pursuit but whatever lol). In most cases, I don't see it being a threat. with Night Slash it could be a problem, but it has to predict right and Toxic/SR damage is going to eat away at it in no time. Hera isn't a threat imo

I mean Guts users are always going to be a hindrance to Toxic Spikes reliant stall teams. Even then, I think this team takes them effectively given the disadvantages a stall team is at against them.

One criticism I have is the Hariyama set...it's WAY too easy to set up on. You handle threats well, but your pokemon aren't going to be 100% all the time and the more opportunities you opponent is given to sweep you, the more likely it is that it'll happen. You have Wish support anyways and Hariyama is no sleep absorber. Thunderpunch is great for Gyarados backup, and standard options like Toxic are always useful for a stall team like this.

As with about every stall team, Blissey over reliance is present, so be careful of random Explosion teams and stuff. That'll screw you up if you aren't prepared.

The one actual weakness of this team is the original stall breaker of the generation that seems to be obsolete now, Infernape. Mixape really screws your team over with the exception of Azumarill, and it actually does take a fair amount from Grass Knot. Its EVs help in that regard, but your defense against it is rather slim, so don't let it mess your team up.

Overall a good team. No major weaknesses (though there are a few minor holes, but most DP teams have them anyways and I'm sure it's true with awful Platinum is awful).

STALL STALL STALL

(Team Orb weak imo)

EDIT: About Hera, I think Vance bringing up the point is valid, but I just don't see it doing much to this team given what it has to deal with.

Well im thinking about switching leads to conserve Azumarril for Mixape. Since NP LO Grass Knot does 74% MAX to Azu which is less than what vappy takes iirc , so i live even with SR up and an unboosted LO Grass Knot (those all out mixape with hp ice) doesnt even 2hko XP. Oh and fun fact; Hariyama isnt OHKO'd by a LO NP Grass Knot, so i have that too =].

But yeah i see what you mean. Anyways, as of yet the only ape set that has caused me problems was an Endevour + Vaccum wave sash one @_@, well not problems per say, since i knew what it was going to do so i just Encored it first turn rather than attacking it lol.

As for the Hariyama thing, again i see what you mean, but he does his job well, so meh. Also things cant set up him that easilly if they get blown away or paralysed.

Hariyama is no sleep absorber

Why ? Its bulkier than Machamp and Machamp does a good enough job >:

Two things:
- Azu shouldn't be leading without Aqua Jet, it defeats the purpose. Encore is better on faster pokemon.
- No Toxpikes absorbtion worries me, as you are pretty much downed by them.

How does it defeat the purpose ? Aqua Jet doesnt PHaze most leads anyway and the "its too slow to encore" claim is bogus in all honesty since all the speed in the world wont help if they try and set up, especially when paralyzed.

And the only really usable T-Spikes absorber's are like Tentacruel (who dies to duggy making me mixape weak) and Roserade ? But why would i want that on a stall team as it has limited resistances and is really only good for t-spikes then is kinda useless.

As for the t-spike weak claim, 5/6 of my team dont care in the slightest about them and i have Rapid Spin =p.


Again i get where your coming from, so yeah.

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I guess i could try Toxic Spikes again myself, but i kinda want T-Wave on Celebi which conflicts with them. I mean they really wont be hard to fit in but since in Platinum T-Spikes are more than useless im unsure, since they hit like 2 things =/


Well thanks for the comments guys, its given me a few things to think about X]

 

[ABYAY]

Well, if CB Machamp is outpredictable, then CB Gallade is in the same boat, although much less. It's less common, so that's a plus for you, seeing as it can 2HKO everything (with hax against Celebi and maybe Rotom, if it gets paralyzed.)

 

[Dark Azelf]

Well, if CB Machamp is outpredictable, then CB Gallade is in the same boat, although much less. It's less common, so that's a plus for you, seeing as it can 2HKO everything (with hax against Celebi and maybe Rotom, if it gets paralyzed.)

Well i faced a CB Gallade and it couldnt get past Rotom, since i set up Reflect in its face lol.


Anyways after laddering some more on both smogon AND official i feel some changes need to be made which will be put on the first post shortly or when i feel like it.

- Leading with Trick scarf rotom where trick is >> reflect and Toxic as an option on next to s-ball because Zapdos annoys me and it takes alot for me to get rid of >: and Rotom is an awesome counter, so yeah.(BeachBoy told me of this problem when he was using the team for laddering purposes, thief !!). Switched to scarf set for mainly for dealing with sub seed skymin and to revenge threats should they break through. Same spread and same bulk.

- Put Knock Off >> Body Slam on Azumarril and Perish Song >> Encore. Due to legality issues. And so i could put SR on Celebi and still have P-Song.

- Put Stealth Rock >> Perish Song on Celebi and Reflect >> T-Wave.

- Put Toxic Spikes (eww) >> SR on forry.


Thoughts ?.

 

[Anti]

Hariyama gets crushed by common sleepers (so Milotic doesn't count, and Surf can do a fair amount of damage). resttalk on machamp is really only useful for recovery, unless you want to pin it against Breloom, Gengar, Yanmega...yea lol. not to imply that a good sleep absorber has to beat them all but the most common ones crush machamp so yea lol

And when asleep, Hariyama has around a 50% chance (lower actually) of actually paralyzing with Force Palm or WWing something setting up on it away. If it is PHazing that happens, that pokemon will keep getting around a 50% chance of sweeping each time Hariyama needs to recover off damage, something that is way too risky to deal with. The last thing a stall team wants to be is a set-up fodder (I would know as a former resttalk cress user lol) as it will lose its ability to stall, which is essential obviously. Resttalkers are pretty risky, and Hariyama could be doing things like badly poisoning fun little Gyarados or Zapdos trying to come in on a fighting attack. I just don't see the value or Resttalk even if it has been working. Everything can get better after all, especially a resttalker.

I would at least try out some other utility options. Hariyama can do a lot.

 

[Archer]

ResTalkers are still one of the only forms of sleep absorbtion. Unless you run a faster Lum Berry Taunter, or something with Insomnia (Which is limited to 4 UUs and 1 BL), then there is no reliable way to take it.

You're also rather slow, with no priority, meaning you'll have a bad time with anything that manages to set up. Oh and Heracross concerns me a bit.

Sorry my last post was poorly thought out, I was in a rush.

 

[Dark Azelf]

No longer need this


~Closed~




EDIT : Hi Smogon, its me, Dark_123 <3 !!!