Pokemon Sun and Moon Ratings

[Iceshadow3317]

I didn't want to post in this thread again, but I agree too much with Cid. I agree SM is having a bit of an annoying streak staying in one area for far too long, but that is about it. The character development is extremely awesome in SM.

I watched the first 5 episode of Yo-Kai, the two are NOTHING alike. Do you people think Yo-Kai is the only anime that has used things such as watches? NO IT ISN'T!.

Look at Digimon, look at Pokemon XY, look at Yo-Kai, look at Duel Master, Yugioh, Power Rangers, Megaman Battle Net... It is pathetic how some people are so simple minded that they can't look at other shows who have used something similar. Yes that is harsh, but some of you are being harsh.

I agree with some things people are complaining about. But times change and some people just can't accept change. Too me, Yo-Kai Watch is far from pokemon and is more like MegaMan Battle Net.

I just think the Alolan heat has gotten to some of you. And being in Alola, is making some of you more salty due to all the salt in the water.

It's sad that Pokémon isn't doing fine in the ratings, but I hope it's a lesson to not change the style of the anime. The series had an identity and they ruoned it from what I found out.

I wish im the next generation Ash becomes what he wad in X/Y.

The problem is, Japan hated XY. It is a Japan show, so they are going to cater more to Japanese Fans. The other countries loved Pokemon XY, but Japan didn't, which caused them to change it.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I didn't want to post in this thread again, but I agree too much with Cid. I agree SM is having a bit of an annoying streak staying in one area for far too long, but that is about it. The character development is extremely awesome in SM.

I watched the first 5 episode of Yo-Kai, the two are NOTHING alike. Do you people think Yo-Kai is the only anime that has used things such as watches? NO IT ISN'T!.

Look at Digimon, look at Pokemon XY, look at Yo-Kai, look at Duel Master, Yugioh, Power Rangers, Megaman Battle Net... It is pathetic how some people are so simple minded that they can't look at other shows who have used something similar. Yes that is harsh, but some of you are being harsh.

I agree with some things people are complaining about. But times change and some people just can't accept change. Too me, Yo-Kai Watch is far from pokemon and is more like MegaMan Battle Net.

I just think the Alolan heat has gotten to some of you. And being in Alola, is making some of you more salty due to all the salt in the water.





The problem is, Japan hated XY. It is a Japan show, so they are going to cater more to Japanese Fans. The other countries loved Pokemon XY, but Japan didn't, which caused them to change it.

Maybe, but there was no real reason to have Ash essentially forsake his goal. I don't give a crap whether Japan loves that kind of stuff, you are NOT supposed to warp Ash into forsaking his goal like that just because the games omitted Gyms and a formal league. And for the record, the other countries stopped loving XY the second they pulled that fast one regarding Ash and the Kalos League, especially when this time around there was absolutely NO reason for Ash to lose this time around, not even the bit about a future generation. And there were definitely quite a few Japanese reviews that were absolutely scathing that season. When Ash's goal is to become a Pokémon Master, might as well make SURE he either succeeds in his goal, or at the very least gets closer than before (and that's probably the one silver lining with the mess that was Kalos). And honestly, if you're going to go the route of the leagues, you might as well make sure Ash actually WINS. I know I would if I were the writers, not even care if there's a new generation since I want Ash to actually WIN for once, even risk getting fired by the Pokémon Company, because I do not like having goals be short changed or incompleted.

And considering the low ratings even in Japan, I'm pretty sure the Japanese hated Sun and Moon as well.

 

[ash120430]

It's sad that Pokémon isn't doing fine in the ratings, but I hope it's a lesson to not change the style of the anime. The series had an identity and they ruoned it from what I found out.

I wish im the next generation Ash becomes what he wad in X/Y.

I am totally agreed with you. Ash in SM is not ASH from XY. XY series was so amazing. Ash in XY looks smart, mature and experienced trainer than ever before. Please, Give us our real Ash back.

 

[CidHazard]

And considering the low ratings even in Japan, I'm pretty sure the Japanese hated Sun and Moon as well.

Believe it or not Pokemon SuMo anime is actually praised by critics and veteran animators alike. Praising it for its warm and nostalgic feel. Critical acclaim doesn't always translate to ratings XD most japanese anime otaku's love the show too, but then again those guys'll just watch late night rerun's of the show on sat and sun so they don't affect the ratings as much. Don't believe me? check out japanese anime tags on Twitter... google translates sucks tho...

It's not really surprising how the Japanese don't bat an eyelid to the different tone or the change in direction. Most viewers don't really care about plot or continuity as long as they're entertained after a long days work then they'll end up loving the show. Why do you think shows like Aimed at the entire family like Doreamon or Sazae-san, and the Iyashikei genre (Shows that have no stakes or drama what so ever... and are just about people happily going about with their lives) are so popular there.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Believe it or not Pokemon SuMo anime is actually praised by critics and veteran animators alike. Praising it for its warm and nostalgic feel. Critical acclaim doesn't always translate to ratings XD most japanese anime otaku's love the show too, but then again those guys'll just watch late night rerun's of the show on sat and sun so they don't affect the ratings as much. Don't believe me? check out japanese anime tags on Twitter... google translates sucks tho...

It's not really surprising how the Japanese don't bat an eyelid to the different tone or the change in direction. Most viewers don't really care about plot or continuity as long as they're entertained after a long days work then they'll end up loving the show. Why do you think shows like Aimed at the entire family like Doreamon or Sazae-san, and the Iyashikei genre (Shows that have no stakes or drama what so ever... and are just about people happily going about with their lives) are so popular there.

If the Japanese truly loved the series, the show would have been in the sevens or even the tens in terms of ratings, NOT in the threes (and no, it airing late at night is no excuse: The show seems to air at 9 PM based on the it saying that it had aired three hours before, and calculating Eastern Time to Japanese time. Another show that aired at 9 PM, Bull, has pretty stellar ratings upwards to the 15s, being at least at the level of the Kanto episodes. If they could pull it off, Sun and Moon can get 15s as well.).

And for the record, critical acclaim =/= a good entry or even a well-liked one. Brokeback Mountain also got raving reviews, yet most people hadn't actually seen it. Heck, 30 Rock got a LOT of rave reviews, yet throughout its run, it had abysmal ratings at BEST. Likewise, a lot of reviewers hated The Little Mermaid and Ariel (well, I like them both, but that's not the point), yet that movie singlehandedly saved Disney from bankruptcy.

 

[ash120430]

Why don't they make Pokemon anime considering old fans. I believe that there are lot of old fans who still love pokemon.

 

[jjc927]

With all the other options for watching shows besides on traditional TV at the airing time today ratings aren't as meaningful as they once were. They're still looked at to determine a show's success and as a determining factor in deciding to keep a show on the air or not, but they're not as significant as they once were. As long as the show is profitable, the producers keep it going, and there's a network or syndication to air it the show will continue. Every season of the show has had it's share of lovers and haters, from the beginning to today.

Ash120430- They do throw in the occasional reference or callback for older fans. But since the show is directed and marketed towards children (specifically male pre-teens), the anime and other children's cartoons are made with them in mind. Pokémon Generations was made a little more for older fans, but still geared towards the target audience.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

With all the other options for watching shows besides on traditional TV at the airing time today ratings aren't as meaningful as they once were. They're still looked at to determine a show's success and as a determining factor in deciding to keep a show on the air or not, but they're not as significant as they once were. As long as the show is profitable, the producers keep it going, and there's a network or syndication to air it the show will continue. Every season of the show has had it's share of lovers and haters, from the beginning to today.

Ash120430- They do throw in the occasional reference or callback for older fans. But since the show is directed and marketed towards children (specifically male pre-teens), the anime and other children's cartoons are made with them in mind. Pokémon Generations was made a little more for older fans, but still geared towards the target audience.

Problem is, even among the online viewership numbers, they aren't actually doing any good at all, if this post is to be believed: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=8499819&postcount=22 Not to mention I'm pretty sure streaming services don't work in Japan after Hulu Japan bombed.

And either way, I can name PLENTY of shows that managed to get very stellar ratings, via the traditional TV at the airing time I should add, DESPITE online viewership pretty much taking over. Like, for example, NCIS, NCIS New Orleans, NCIS Los Angeles, Bull, and the like. Even Scorpion, while not doing particularly well compared to the above shows this season, nonetheless got stellar ratings than Pokémon is getting right now.

 

[jjc927]

Those shows are all on a national network in primetime during the week when people do still watch traditional television in high numbers. Shows that get low ratings in network primetime are the ones in trouble. Shows like Pokémon that are on cable and air new episodes outside of primetime get lower ratings but as long as they're profitable they generally stay on until the producers decide to end it.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Those shows are all on a national network in primetime during the week when people do still watch traditional television in high numbers. Shows that get low ratings in network primetime are the ones in trouble. Shows like Pokémon that are on cable and air new episodes outside of primetime get lower ratings but as long as they're profitable they generally stay on until the producers decide to end it.

Maybe, but it still doesn't change the fact that online viewership of Pokémon via streaming or what have you is actually very bad, or at least, that's what the link I provided indicated. And I'm pretty sure if they get low ratings, they're unprofitable by definition.

 

[CidHazard]

Maybe, but it still doesn't change the fact that online viewership of Pokémon via streaming or what have you is actually very bad, or at least, that's what the link I provided indicated. And I'm pretty sure if they get low ratings, they're unprofitable by definition.

Problem is, even among the online viewership numbers, they aren't actually doing any good at all, if this post is to be believed: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=8499819&postcount=22 Not to mention I'm pretty sure streaming services don't work in Japan after Hulu Japan bombed.

To be fair Weedle the guy you sourced gave a link to a animetoon a website that streams fantranslations. Remember there's a law passed that outlaws streaming pirated content online. So the nihonjin won't try it and won't have any affect on the rankings of a fan based streaming service.

So in terms of using it to gage the Anime's Popularity in japan... well it means nothing.

Hulu and Netflix bombed because of one thing... they weren't able to secure rights to air Japanese TV shows or Movies on the platform. No Anime No Sentai and No Drama, just western shows and movies. Nowadays there's Hikari TV, Rakuten Showtime, tons of official websites that stream TV content to your PC... so yeah streaming isn't unpopular, Hulu and Netflix just failed in japan.

Also again, the production of animation is different in the west and japan. In the west Animated shows are a gamble because studio's have to produce the budget by themselves, if the show isn't popular or has a decent following they die... they die quickly.

In japan most shows are contracted to animation studio's. There's no real risk to them cause they didn't produce the budget and they where already paid. Unless of course its an original show.

Its up to the owner of the IP (in this case Nintendo) to continue the show... if they want to (And they will because Pokemon is still a thing) they keep giving out money to the animation studio (in this case OLM) The anime needs to do one thing too be successful in Nintendo's eyes, and that's to promote the games.

 

[ash120430]

So, Is there any possibility that they return to original artstyle in sun and Moon series?

 

[CidHazard]

So, Is there any possibility that they return to original artstyle in sun and Moon series?

The old artstyle or character design?

Artstyle encompasses the entirety of a Shows visuals, from the colors too set design.

SuMo has a brighter color pallet than the rest of the series.

Character design (Ash's mainly) is what every body is going insane over...

The possibility of them going back to the old design is slim... With the animation team in OLM only getting better with the new stuff over time I doubt they'd want to go back to rather obsolete designs that only make the show harder to animate.

 

[Hikamaru]

So, Is there any possibility that they return to original artstyle in sun and Moon series?

Most likely not. The art team likely nerfed the art style to make animation more fluid, but I care way more about the appearance of stuff rather than the way they move. Maybe 8th Gen will fix it if the SM art style gets bad enough reception.

 

[Videreludus]

I didn't want to post in this thread again, but I agree too much with Cid. I agree SM is having a bit of an annoying streak staying in one area for far too long, but that is about it. The character development is extremely awesome in SM.

I watched the first 5 episode of Yo-Kai, the two are NOTHING alike. Do you people think Yo-Kai is the only anime that has used things such as watches? NO IT ISN'T!.

Look at Digimon, look at Pokemon XY, look at Yo-Kai, look at Duel Master, Yugioh, Power Rangers, Megaman Battle Net... It is pathetic how some people are so simple minded that they can't look at other shows who have used something similar. Yes that is harsh, but some of you are being harsh.

I agree with some things people are complaining about. But times change and some people just can't accept change. Too me, Yo-Kai Watch is far from pokemon and is more like MegaMan Battle Net.

I just think the Alolan heat has gotten to some of you. And being in Alola, is making some of you more salty due to all the salt in the water.





The problem is, Japan hated XY. It is a Japan show, so they are going to cater more to Japanese Fans. The other countries loved Pokemon XY, but Japan didn't, which caused them to change it.

The thing is that if Yokai Watch didn't appear, Ash would still be in an adventure instead of going to school and probably the series would have less slapstick moments. That's were the hate is coming.

Also Sun and Moon isn't more popular in Japan than X and Y right now.

I am totally agreed with you. Ash in SM is not ASH from XY. XY series was so amazing. Ash in XY looks smart, mature and experienced trainer than ever before. Please, Give us our real Ash back.

Yeah it's really sad how much the animators and writers changed him.

I have to apologise for my typos in my other post. I wrote on my phone.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

To be fair Weedle the guy you sourced gave a link to a animetoon a website that streams fantranslations. Remember there's a law passed that outlaws streaming pirated content online. So the nihonjin won't try it and won't have any affect on the rankings of a fan based streaming service.

So in terms of using it to gage the Anime's Popularity in japan... well it means nothing.

Hulu and Netflix bombed because of one thing... they weren't able to secure rights to air Japanese TV shows or Movies on the platform. No Anime No Sentai and No Drama, just western shows and movies. Nowadays there's Hikari TV, Rakuten Showtime, tons of official websites that stream TV content to your PC... so yeah streaming isn't unpopular, Hulu and Netflix just failed in japan.

I'm pretty sure someone on here in one of those threads (maybe the same thread I linked you to, though certainly not the same poster who made that post) made it pretty clear that streaming services BOMBED in Japan.

Fair point regard the link, though. Wish there was something that actually gauges online viewership besides that, though.

Also again, the production of animation is different in the west and japan. In the west Animated shows are a gamble because studio's have to produce the budget by themselves, if the show isn't popular or has a decent following they die... they die quickly.

In japan most shows are contracted to animation studio's. There's no real risk to them cause they didn't produce the budget and they where already paid. Unless of course its an original show.

Its up to the owner of the IP (in this case Nintendo) to continue the show... if they want to (And they will because Pokemon is still a thing) they keep giving out money to the animation studio (in this case OLM) The anime needs to do one thing too be successful in Nintendo's eyes, and that's to promote the games.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't the Super Mario World TV show contracted out by Nintendo of America similar to in Japan? Even their selling lots of copies of the game for American and European viewers didn't save it from being cancelled. Same deal with Mega Man and Zelda.

@Red-Charizard: I agree. There were PLENTY of ways to handle Ash going to Alola WITHOUT turning it into a cheap Emperor's New School clone, whether Ash won the league or not. Like for example: Have someone from Alola arrive and request, due to Ash's role in both saving Alola and his getting runner up status against Alain (or even becoming champion), for him to attend Alola and help set up the league, even act as a volunteer to do test runs on an experimental form of a Pokémon League that requires doing trials instead of badges. Not only would that actually have Ash retain his character development, it actually would also be a very clever way of having Ash challenge a league and at the same time deal with the possibility with not including gyms this saga, and would actually be somewhat in-character for him especially when Kanto established that he essentially didn't even need school to be good at training. It's pretty obvious that the only reason the whole school element was introduced was because of Yokai Watch, considering the more pressing recency of that fad (the other shows Icy_Ice mentioned never had Pokémon do THIS much of a change in pace, and Digimon was Pokémon's rival show since Kanto, and I'd know because I saw Digimon ads around the time Pokémon was syndicated and thought it was a ripoff. And I've watched Power Rangers well before Pokémon was even a thing. And Duel Master, Yugioh, and MegaMan Battle Network, even when they got anime adaptations, NEVER caused enough problems to the Pokémon anime to completely change its entire formula to include a school-based tone, and MegaMan Battle Network is the closest one to Yokai-Watch in overall nature, including being school-based).

 

[ash120430]

Sun and Moon series is rebooted series of pokemon anime to represent video game. It's not continuation of XYZ. It is totally different than main story. That's what I believe.

 

[CidHazard]

I'm pretty sure someone on here in one of those threads (maybe the same thread I linked you to, though certainly not the same poster who made that post) made it pretty clear that streaming services BOMBED in Japan.

I don't live there any more so the popularity of said streaming services are just based on research and not my first hand accounts but...

There are free streaming services that's permited by the goverment. it streams entire channels tho.
Paid Streaming services have a weird business model there. you basically rent individual shows you want to stream. Not like Hulu or Netflix where you get the entire catalog.

 

[jjc927]

Maybe, but it still doesn't change the fact that online viewership of Pokémon via streaming or what have you is actually very bad, or at least, that's what the link I provided indicated. And I'm pretty sure if they get low ratings, they're unprofitable by definition.

Shows like Pokémon are profitable if their merchandise sells, and in general shows are profitable if they bring in money from advertisers and they get money from their airing rights deals (which is why Pokémon has changed networks multiple times, and shows that are not owned and produced by their networks are more likely to not last because the network has to pay for their airing rights).

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Shows like Pokémon are profitable if their merchandise sells, and in general shows are profitable if they bring in money from advertisers and they get money from their airing rights deals (which is why Pokémon has changed networks multiple times, and shows that are not owned and produced by their networks are more likely to not last because the network has to pay for their airing rights).

Let's see, XY's movie series did terribly (only one of them, the 19th movie, did well enough to be barely ahead of Pokémon Heroes, which until the Hoopa movie was the biggest box office disaster Pokémon had), and according to someone in one of the older threads, Bandai List, the biggest toy manufacturer for Pokémon in Japan, had Pokémon ranking VERY low in the profitability rate. Yeah, more likely than not, Pokémon's not actually all that profitable. Now, we'll see regarding Pokémon's profitability when Movie 20 officially comes out and its box office records are published, but I don't have much hopes.

Besides, Super Mario World, which was created specifically to promote the game of the same name, had a similar function to the Pokémon Anime, even succeeded in selling quite a few units of that game. Didn't stop that show from being cancelled within a single season due to bad ratings.