Pokemon Tier Discussion/Resource

[BeachBoy]

And...? Zapdos gets walled by it, don't see that as a valid argument for BL. Not saying Zapdos is BL, but Cress walls something? Big whoop, it's what the space duck is for. And the Rotoms are awesome, I won't mention those beasts. :> Well, I just simply see it doing better this go around, but eh. *shrug* I don't use it, so I could see it going either way. I see why people would want BL though, don't get me wrong.

On Donphan, actually, I say keep it OU. I've actually seen it holding weight recently, due to Ice Shard and ability to set rocks up blah blah blah. Just been workin' lately.

And bleh, I think I may eat my Deoxys words too. Still not sure.

 

[.]

And...? Zapdos gets walled by it, don't see that as a valid argument for BL. Not saying Zapdos is BL, but Cress walls something? Big whoop, it's what the space duck is for. And the Rotoms are awesome, I won't mention those beasts. :> Well, I just simply see it doing better this go around, but eh. *shrug* I don't use it, so I could see it going either way. I see why people would want BL though, don't get me wrong.

Where did Zapdos come into this equation? I'm just saying, with the high usage of Cresselia and the Rotoms, I can't see people getting "destroyed by Electivire"

 

[Dark Azelf]

Heatran says hi.

Before platinum, Gengar was #1 on usage. Is what i meant.

 

[BeachBoy]

Where did Zapdos come into this equation? I'm just saying, with the high usage of Cresselia and the Rotoms, I can't see people getting "destroyed by Electivire"

I mentioned that in the fact Cress walls a lot of things, so I don't see it as a valid point really. I've seen Electrivire usage rise, maybe I'm blind and what not, but with all this electric running around, it's getting speed, and beats walls with the mixed sets. So much focus and attention is on the new sets and Pocket Monsters that Elec can get some love. Although I could easily be wrong, heh. :P

Before platinum, Gengar was #1 on usage. Is what i meant.

Ohhh, my bad. :3 I skimmed. D:

 

[shedinjask]

Since Shoddy hasn't updated its usage stats in a while, and Smogon's tier list is more like this site's anyways, I'll be using their server.

For August, Electivire ranks 37th in usage. That's below Porygon-2, Spiritomb, Dugtrio, and Vaporeon. So unless you're considering those OU as well, Vire is BL. It's really not used that much and really not that good. I can't even remember the last time I was swept by Electivire, I don't even consider it when team-building because I know there are more threatening things to stop and I'll probably be able to counter Vire anyways.

Donphan is even lower, suffering the fate of being outclassed by Hippowdon in everything but spinning. It's not a bad Pokemon, just not used enough. BL.

Weavile is 25th. I'd say that's OU.

 

[Anti]

The BL/OU cutoff is like 40-45ish. If Electivire is 37th, then it's going to be OU. Remember KT, no matter how bad it is, it doesn't matter considering the entire tier in relation to OUs is determined by usage.

Also, I don't know how Electivire is easy to revenge kill given how fast it is after Motor Drive (which is REALLY easy to activate). Gengar and Deoxys-S can't kill it either, and neither can scarftran.

I'm not saying it's good, but you're certainly underestimating it.

 

[4th Gen Matt]

What does everybody think about moving to Hitmonlee to BL or OU?

I just made a comeback with Lee. I was down 3-1, Lee was my last Pokemon.

I KO'd his Infernape with EQ, Gaya with Stone Edge, and Snorlax with CC.

He can take out most OU Pokemon (to an extent).

He only really lacks in Defense, HP, and SpA. The SpA doesn't matter because of his huge base 120 Atk stat. And he can still survive a hit from an Infernape (I know from experience.) Plus if you are afraid of him getting 1HKO'd, you can simply throw a Focus Sash on him.

Opinions?

 

[_Prince_]

What does everybody think about moving to Hitmonlee to BL or OU?

I just made a comeback with Lee. I was down 3-1, Lee was my last Pokemon.

I KO'd his Infernape with EQ, Gaya with Stone Edge, and Snorlax with CC.

He can take out most OU Pokemon (to an extent).

He only really lacks in Defense, HP, and SpA. The SpA doesn't matter because of his huge base 120 Atk stat. And he can still survive a hit from an Infernape (I know from experience.) Plus if you are afraid of him getting 1HKO'd, you can simply throw a Focus Sash on him.

Opinions?

k so what? Knocking out 3 pokemon doesn't make it OU

No way...it will get walled by OU walls easily. Does it even get past UU walls? hmm I don't even think it troubles the UU tier

Outclassed by infernape in many ways meh

 

[4th Gen Matt]

I 1HKO'd a Snorlax and Infernape.

Easily.

I think it should at least be a BL.

And yes. It destroys everything in UU. I have 6-0 a team with it many times.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

I 1HKO'd a Snorlax and Infernape.

Easily.

I think it should at least be a BL.

And yes. It destroys everything in UU. I have 6-0 a team with it many times.

So....?

Sharpedo can OHKO Vire and Nape with EQ/Waterfall/Surf. Does that mean it should be OU?

 

[_Prince_]

I 1HKO'd a Snorlax and Infernape.

Easily.

I think it should at least be a BL.

And yes. It destroys everything in UU. I have 6-0 a team with it many times.

I see, you're trying to tell me this thing breaks past weezing. If you say so

 

[El Gofre]

Hitmonlee isnt storng enough to leave UU. Granted he's a competent sweeper there, but he isnt overly imbalanced or anything. As already said, he would start crying when he has to get past things tougher than hypno.

 

[AluminumKnight]

Yeah, what is Lee going to do to the like of Cress? I say he's POSSIBLY BL material, but only if maybe Weezing moves up as well. As it is, he's a frightening sweeper, yes, but doesn't overcentralize UU. Also remember that he is very predictable. You can't really do much with him except run CC/Stone Edge/EQ, and his speed leaves much to be desired.

I'm also very surprised that Lee can survive a CC from Infernape, actually. My Mothim can outspeed and OHKO Lee with AA... and it's a mixed set!

 

[4th Gen Matt]

I did a good job EV training him.

That or I got lucky.

Well, even if he isn't moved up, I will still use him on my OU teams, as I believe he is strong enough to be there.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Rofflies Hitmonlee.

Hitmonlee is NOT centralizing in UU, i can name you like enough counters right off the bat, nor is it being used enough to warrant a place in ou or even to be moved up a tier. Its also outclassed totally by Heracross, Lucario, Gallade etc. So there really is no need for it to move up at all.

This is a case of "I use a Shedinja in ubers and it beats Kyogre thus is uber". The aforementioned can be said about pretty much ANY pokemon beating pokes above themselves in tier level, it proves nothing tbh. All you proved with your Infernape,Gyarados and Snorlax example is that infernape has poop defenses, Gyarados is weak to rock and Snorlax is weak to fighting. It simply is not a strong enough argument to be shifting pokes around tiers, sorry.

 

[sims796]

You've said it in words I wish I had. Just because a poke beat a higher tier, poke, doesn't warrent a place. I got to sig that "all you proved is that Gya is weak to rock" example.

 

[4th Gen Matt]

Rofflies Hitmonlee.

Hitmonlee is NOT centralizing in UU, i can name you like enough counters right off the bat, nor is it being used enough to warrant a place in ou or even to be moved up a tier. Its also outclassed totally by Heracross, Lucario, Gallade etc. So there really is no need for it to move up at all.

This is a case of "I use a Shedinja in ubers and it beats Kyogre thus is uber". The aforementioned can be said about pretty much ANY pokemon beating pokes above themselves in tier level, it proves nothing tbh. All you proved with your Infernape,Gyarados and Snorlax example is that infernape has poop defenses, Gyarados is weak to rock and Snorlax is weak to fighting. It simply is not a strong enough argument to be shifting pokes around tiers, sorry.

I think it is hilarious how you got all worked up Azelf.

I am just saying that I BELIEVE he can hold his own in OU. I am not saying he will be the most powerul pokemon in there but he can hold his own.

And talking about all of his counters is not a valid argument either. As every single Pokemon has at least 1 counter. End of story.

 

[Samson]

WHAT? miltank has no counters, excuse yourself.

EDIT: oh and vileplume too.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I think it is hilarious how you got all worked up Azelf.

I am just saying that I BELIEVE he can hold his own in OU. I am not saying he will be the most powerul pokemon in there but he can hold his own.

And talking about all of his counters is not a valid argument either. As every single Pokemon has at least 1 counter. End of story.

I find it hilarious that i dont see i/anyone getting worked up, you'd know if that happened, trust me. So can we drop the snippy attitude ? kthnx.

Garchomp didnt have a counter and looked what happened to him ;). Same would apply to Hitmonlee if he were too broken for uu. Hence why he doesnt need to be moved up.

Sure he can hold his own, so can alot of pokes in tiers above themselves aka Scizor and Jirachi in ubers. Its still not a case for them to get move up tiers. Since they dont "break" ou.

And talking about all of his counters is not a valid argument either. As every single Pokemon has at least 1 counter. End of story

Umm if it has "at least one counter" then in uu, what merits it getting moved up ?. Dont even say "because it holds its own" this has been proven wrong and is not a valid argument.


This may help aswell.

Uber - Ban List. Things too strong for standard.
OU - Standard Play.
BL - UU Ban List. Things too strong for uu.
UU- UU.


End of the day : - Reason one : - Its not used enough. Reason 2 : - It isnt centralizing enough in uu to get moved about tiers thus meaning it is not too strong for uu. Which are the only valid reasons to shove something up a tier.

 

[Sora_8920]

WHAT? miltank has no counters, excuse yourself.

EDIT: oh and vileplume too.

Ahahahaha.

But yeah, 4th Gen Matt: D_A was NOT getting worked up, he was simply providing his side of the argument.

... If Hitmonlee is outclassed by a plethora of other omnipresent OU Fighting OU Pokémon, I'm pretty sure it won't do that great in OU. =/

EDIT: Beaten.