Pokemon Tier Discussion/Resource

[BeachBoy]

This is true for everything except the Rotom Appliances, which need to be removed from UU, they work perfectly in OU and I assume they are over-powered for UU.

What I am saying, is that BL/OU changes can wait. UU/BL is far more important to get right.

Well, that I can definitely agree with. They're top OU Pocket Monsters that can fit excellent niches in teams. They're easily OU.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Well, that I can definitely agree with. They're top OU Pocket Monsters that can fit excellent niches in teams. They're easily OU.

I agree with this, no way in hell they are UU.

As for the UU/BL thing;

Ive been hearing quite a bit how broken Absol is in uu now that it gained Super Power, whats all your take on that ?

 

[BeachBoy]

Yeah, I've been hearing all this "Tier reconsideration!" talk for Absol too. I've been using it on my first team, and it's just funny. Swords Dance Absol rips through teams, I've had a chance at a 4-1 comeback, and even come back from large deficits thanks to that raw power. It's a monster, it really is. But I'm not entirely sure since I'm not that experienced with UU. But obviously, it's a great sweeper.

 

[luke]

D_A, OU is based on usage, so the actual viability is not up for debate.

As for the BL/UU issues, I don't see a major problem with any of the questionable UUs. Miltank is the biggest one and I would assume Steelix and bulky fighters could deal with it. Weezing should be able to incapacitate it with WoW, as well...

Just want to note that Miltank usually runs Heal Bell, so Will o Wisp isn't going to capacitate Miltank anytime soon.

Miltank, Articuno, and Absol are my biggest issues in UU.

Miltank's Curse set is beastly to take down. Even bulky fighters have a difficult time scratching it if it gets in a Curse or Two.

Articuno's SR weakness doesn't incapacitate it much. It's bulky and difficult to take down. Stupid Life Orb / Ice Beam / Roost sets also hit hard and can take numerous beatings from UU Pokemon.

Absol is definitely troublesome with Superpower under its belt. Definitely consider this for BL as well.

 

[DonRoyale]

Straight from Smogon:


Latest News

Deoxys-S sent to Ubers.

Posted on Oct 26, 2008 02:59PM
After a two week testing period in which battlers were given the opportunity to earn voting rights, a poll was held among eligible members to determine the tiering of Deoxys-S. In a landslide decision, that Pokemon has been declared Uber and will be removed from the Standard Ladder as soon as possible.
The next round of testing will focus on Shaymin-S, more commonly known as Skymin. The unique circumstances of this test do not require the use of a Suspect Test Ladder. Players will need to achieve the voting requirements of a minimum rating of 1650 and a maximum deviation of 60 on only the Standard Ladder by November 29th to earn voting eligibility. ~Aeolus

Thoughts?

 

[BeachBoy]

Straight from Smogon:


Latest News

Deoxys-S sent to Ubers.

Posted on Oct 26, 2008 02:59PM
After a two week testing period in which battlers were given the opportunity to earn voting rights, a poll was held among eligible members to determine the tiering of Deoxys-S. In a landslide decision, that Pokemon has been declared Uber and will be removed from the Standard Ladder as soon as possible.
The next round of testing will focus on Shaymin-S, more commonly known as Skymin. The unique circumstances of this test do not require the use of a Suspect Test Ladder. Players will need to achieve the voting requirements of a minimum rating of 1650 and a maximum deviation of 60 on only the Standard Ladder by November 29th to earn voting eligibility. ~Aeolus

Thoughts?

Slaughtered Garchomp, in terms of voting, heh. (*still misses the pirate shark* ;_;) In a way, I'm surprised it was that much of a landslide, since Platinum brought some negatives for it such as trick users, Bullet Punch Scizor, and so forth... but really, thinking about it, it's justified. The speed and versatile onslaught of move selection is tough to handle. Fastest taunt user, promoted and urged the metagame to use more speed, arguably the best double screens user, and revenge killing was simple. Even smashing that major pursuit user, Tyranitar, with a move from hell. (Superpower) It put offensive teams in check though, without Deoxys, you can bet offense will see even more of a light. And stall will only take even more of a hit. Since many stall teams relied on the revenging and screens. My poor Double Dance Kingdra teams says bye bye with that loss too. (HELLO DUEL SCREEN JIRACHI! >:D)

It was a force and people should never underestismate it.

In other news, Shaymin test time, hmm? >_o

 

[DonRoyale]

Ban the biscuit, I say.

I hate Skymin...it needs to be shipped off to Ubers yesterday. >.>

 

[Jake♫]

My opinion in this: Deoxys is in its rightful place. It's versatility, plus it's top notch speed and attack power made it too powerful for the OU metagame. It's where it belongs now (Although I will miss it owning those poor unfortunate scarfers :()

Skymin needs to go though, it's reign as king needs to be gone, FAST.

 

[.]

The only reason it seems that Deoxys-e became uber was because of that support lead set. All the sweeper sets are easily taken out.

 

[Aurafire]

The only reason it seems that Deoxys-e became uber was because of that support lead set. All the sweeper sets are easily taken out.

^ Definitely this

I lol at sweeper sets, but the support lead is really what made Deoxys-e too much for OU.

Skymin on the table next? I don't think he has a chance at staying in OU...

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

Like I said in the other thread, Shaymin S is a good poke in OU for providing a check for Bulky Water types.

Frankly, if I manage to get a grass type in against a water type, and I have the threat of 1 hko'ing your current pokemon, I ought to be rewarded with the chance to lay out some serious pain to your team.

So yeah, if you were lame enough to let that happen, I think the fact that I have a chance to 2hko your zapdos with seed flare is quite fair,

considering that when Suicune came in and blocked my heatran (loling the damage), Surf could be brainlessly spammed to hurt anything on my team, including Shaymin S/Salamence who are already getting hurt by SR.

So yeah, compared with the power of suicune to come in, lol at heatran damage, get leftovers back up (if no sand storm), and hurt just about anything on my team with Surf, including a potential 50% hit when combined with SR against even the non-water pokes that resist it,

I think Skymin's power to get a fair chance of killing the next pokemon you switch into it with Seed Flare/Air Slash, actually quite balanced.

Wow... is this guy retarded or what?

And I agree with the general consensus; get Skymin out of OU NOW. Hopefully Smogon isn't clogged with idiots like Chou.

 

[DonRoyale]

The only reason it seems that Deoxys-e became uber was because of that support lead set. All the sweeper sets are easily taken out.

Agreed, as well as with Fabian's post. :\

Nice knowing you, Skymin. =\

 

[.]

Wow... is this guy retarded or what?

And I agree with the general consensus; get Skymin out of OU NOW. Hopefully Smogon isn't clogged with idiots like Chou.

I can't believe the mentality of that guy lol. Oh well, Skymin for uber =]

 

[Anti]

I'm surprised people think the dual screen lead is the huge power behind Deoxys-S. It's gotta be one of its best sets, but the sweeper set you are severely underestimating. People rely on that joke of a pokemon ScarfGar to revenge kill it, but carry it with any form of Pursuit and it just crushes everything. Bronzong and Metagross being in the top ten hurt Deoxys-S, but in Gross' case, it's hard to argue that Deoxys-S didn't have an effect on Metagross being so high in the first place. Dual Screen is very useful, but Deoxys-S was easily a top 3 late-game sweeper with Lucario and possibly Gyarados.

I must argue that in many cases Deoxys-S just wasn't used properly (especially in the battles I've had). When used to its full potential, it's anything but easy to take out.

I agree it should have been, for both sets. Dual Screen could be ridiculous and the sweeper was just beastly in the right hands. Destroyed offensive teams before they got ineffective and went three scarfers on us, which is obviously an over centralizing factor if Deoxys-S was in fact the cause of that (probably was).

As for Skymin...lol Platinum

 

[ABYAY]

I'm all for getting Gaymin-S out of OU and into Uber.

Absol: Absol has very few of counters now in UU. There are a few, maybe like Drapion, but even then, that's questionable. Hitmontop gets merit simply for priority and Intimidate, but if every team has to run that, then I see a connection that shouldn't be happening.

Steelix is for question too, but its weaknesses to Ground/Water/Fighting/Fire (note, all are decently common), might keep it down in UU. It's a top-notch check to non-fighting/non-Ground CBers (Scyther in particular), so that counts for something.

 

[Aquilae]

How will Skymin be Uber by any stretch? It relies heavily on luck to get past its counters, Blissey, Zapdos examples, but it is fragile and easily worn down by SR / Sandstorm. It doesn't centralise OU as the standard special wallers and pokemon that resist its moves can get rid of it easily, bar "Seed Flare / Air Slash hax", which isn't that common as people are making it out to be.

What CT is saying back there is Skymin's alleged ability to force switches and inflict damage on the next pokemon switching in, is comparable to that of every other pokemon. I can bring Skymin on Vaporeon, and it deals damage to the next pokemon switching in. I can bring Suicune on Heatran, and it also does damage to the next pokemon switching in. I think you all have misintepreted it, and either way it doesn't help the argument.

 

[BeachBoy]

True, Aquilae, although you don't see those threats enticing a switch having an 80% chance for a nasty plot boost, while attacking.

I really don't know what to think of Skymin, honestly. I mean seriously you look at the luck factor is has 'n throw up. But in my experiences and views of it, it hasn't been such an incredibly intimidating and overwhelming force. We have Ice Shards running around all over the place for Salamence, Skymin shares that 4x weakness. And that stealth rock weak as well! Thunder wave it and bye bye threat, needless to say. But then SubSeed rears its head, still, the metagame shift to status > speed is only increasing since the Deoxys ban. (and absence of the most common ground-type, Garchomp) But what I'm trying to say is, Skymin is covered by Pocket Monsters that are generally already active in battles for other Pocket Monsters. Not to mention Skymin has found a nice niche for Dragonite, whowas only nerfed even more in Pt.

Somewhat off the beat of the topic, I find it somewhat ironic, in a previous uber or not tier discussion for Garchomp people raged about how 20% miss was so huge, yada yada. Now with Skymin 'n 80% on the other side people seem to be dying over that too. Funny how 80/20 is the way limbo works, heh. :P

 

[.]

How will Skymin be Uber by any stretch? It relies heavily on luck to get past its counters, Blissey, Zapdos examples, but it is fragile and easily worn down by SR / Sandstorm. It doesn't centralise OU as the standard special wallers and pokemon that resist its moves can get rid of it easily, bar "Seed Flare / Air Slash hax", which isn't that common as people are making it out to be.

What CT is saying back there is Skymin's alleged ability to force switches and inflict damage on the next pokemon switching in, is comparable to that of every other pokemon. I can bring Skymin on Vaporeon, and it deals damage to the next pokemon switching in. I can bring Suicune on Heatran, and it also does damage to the next pokemon switching in. I think you all have misintepreted it, and either way it doesn't help the argument.

Funny how about last week you were all for Skymin being uber. And I don't see how 80% is "luck" Using your logic, something like Fire Blast/Focus Blast actually *hitting* is considered luck, which it's not. Air Slash hax happens 60% of the time, and Seed Flare happens a whopping 80%

True, that all Pokes force switches, but even your counter can be incapitated due to a -2 SpD drop that more likely than not, will occur. I don't know if Skymin should be uber or not, I don't much trouble with it, but hey, maybe I've been lucky.

 

[_Prince_]

I haven't been too impressed with skymin really to be moved up to ubers. The factors to take in to account with LOskymin- It's SR weak, SS wears it down + LO damage if holding and then makes it incredibly easy to take it down. Subseed skymin does indeed does better than LOskymin, however it means it adds on another counter and can't hit back certain things. Not even going talk about physical sets of skymin, they are rare. I've found crobat to handle skymin's standard sets quite well, even with sub versions if SR is not up. That saying regice, blissey and even registeel, scarfzapdos, scarftran are decent counters to certain sets. Revenge killing will obviously beat it, anything could kill anything with revenge kill so not going to talk about that.

I've battled with my skymin at least 15 blissey's, not once it has managed to beat blissey, maybe coz luck factor wasn't on my side >> the odds of beating blissey are there, but it doesn't work all the time. There's a 68% chance occuring for a - 2 spdef drop with seedflare, not to meation it only has 85% accuracy, kinda shaky if it doesnt hit and 57% chance of flinching with airslash.

Skymin is definitely top OU, but it's not quite uber and not broken IMO

 

[shedinjask]

hey guess what, this is not a thread to make your own tier list

also wtf are chatot, sudowoodo, and shuckle doing in NU