Pope John Paul II officially beautified by the Vatican

[Livewire]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13251415

The former Pope John Paul II was officially beautified by the Vatican, meaning he is confirmed to have worked a miracle, and is one step away from being canonized as a Saint, should he be attributed to more miracles in the future. But, should he even be considered in the first place, given events that transpired under his reign, including the sex scandals within the church? (1979-2005)

Discuss.

 

[Steven]

I am against this, I do not think he should be a saint.

The reason being his campaign against condoms being used against the spread of HIV and as contraceptive, which in turn led to a documented spike of AIDs among African Catholics and a spike of AIDs deaths (particularly in babies born with it.)

But I am not Catholic, so I really don't care beyond that.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

All being a saint means is that you are in heaven. According to Catholic theology, every person who is in heaven is a saint. Canonization is just the way that the Church knows if someone is in heaven or not. There are many more non-canonized saints.

I have no problem with him being a saint. He was a very spiritual man who helped many have a deeper relationship with God. That's what really counts.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Oh Jesus. Pun intended.

I don't really care all THAT much, because to my mind becoming a Catholic saint is the number one way to show that you have lived your life wrong. But the idea that he is getting hero worship despite the horrible things that he allowed to happen just sickens me.

 

[lx_theo]

lol, what was the "miracle"?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it

Among those at St Peter's Square is French nun Marie Simon-Pierre, who says she was cured of Parkinson's Disease.
Her apparently miraculous cure is part of the case for the beatification, the last stage before sainthood.

Oh, how very Christian. Don't mind me. I'll be on my way now.

 

[Shining Raichu]

lol, what was the "miracle"?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it
Oh, how very Christian. Don't mind me. I'll be on my way now.

Haha, even if what she says is true.... placebo effect, anyone? Miracles, I ask you.

 

[Rogue planet]

Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe was among those attending the beatification.

I'm sure Hitler was also there in spirit. No doubt they'll attempt to write out of history anything bad involving John Paul II soon enough.

 

[Blue Nocturne]

Was I the only person who completely misunderstood "beautified" at first?

Anyway, my response is a very simple and sarcastic "Miracles?"

 

[Captain Fabio]

Oh Jesus. Pun intended.

I don't really care all THAT much, because to my mind becoming a Catholic saint is the number one way to show that you have lived your life wrong. But the idea that he is getting hero worship despite the horrible things that he allowed to happen just sickens me.

What? How does that show that someone has lived their life wrong?

The reason that the Church is against contraception is because their believe is that sex should only be happen when you love someone and are also married. The reason for the spike in HIV was being of people only listening to half of what the Church teaches. If they had waited till they were married, that spike MIGHT NOT have happened. I am not saying it wouldn't, but it just seems strange to me that some people listen to the Church so religiously but ignore the 'no sex before marriage' believe. But that is just my opinion on the matter.

I don't really know how I feel about him being beautified if I am honest.​

​

 

[Shining Raichu]

What? How does that show that someone has lived their life wrong?​

​

That's just my opinion, it's incredibly subjective lol. My goal in life is to have the Westboro Baptist Church picket my funeral, because that's how I'll know I truly lived my life the right way. I was just extrapolating that to the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Timbjerr]

That's just my opinion, it's incredibly subjective lol. My goal in life is to have the Westboro Baptist Church picket my funeral, because that's how I'll know I truly lived my life the right way. I was just extrapolating that to the other end of the spectrum.

Ignoring the blatant antitheism I've come to expect from you, equating Westboro Baptist to the Roman Catholic Church? That's like comparing an obnoxious internet troll to a well-meaning, but ineffectual moderator wannabe. :/

I honestly can't say much on John Paul II, but he was definitely one of the most well-loved popes in recent history (especially compared to Pope Sidius XVI) and one of the greatest humanitarians of our generation. Although, I do think that the Vatican is getting a little too loose with the requirements for sainthood these day. XD

 

[Shining Raichu]

Ignoring the blatant antitheism I've come to expect from you, equating Westboro Baptist to the Roman Catholic Church? That's like comparing an obnoxious internet troll to a well-meaning, but ineffectual moderator wannabe. :/

Nice spin, you should work for Fox News.

Anyway on-topic, my problem with this isn't the sainthood part. It's completely expected that the Catholic Church would canonise its saints by sweeping any criticism or wrongdoing under the rug. To me being a saint means nothing. What worries me is that, as Vendak said, history will be somewhat rewritten and he'll be remembered not only by Catholics but also by the public at large who don't bother to research as, well, a saint.

 

[Fluttershy]

SILLY POPE.

In all honesty, this was probably just a setup by the Catholic church to cover up for their, um, sexy times. With children.

I don't know, I find the his whole miracle to be a nice fat steaming load of BS.

 

[Hikamaru]

Intresting... Pope John Paul II died on my brother's birthday.

I would really like him to be a saint, last year Australia had its first saint canonised - Mary MacKillop aka Saint Mary of the Cross.

Back to John Paul II, a woman claimed he cured her of Parkinson's Disease.

 

[Nervous Eddy]

I'm glad to hear about the beatification. A stricter adherence to the true doctrines is what we need to give vigor back to the Holy Church.

 

[aruchan]

The problem with Catholicism is this adherence to strict dogma and ritualism. If you want to practice religion, you shouldn't be wrapped up in minutiae; genuflection, sainthood, all of those are unnecessary distractions.

 

[Nervous Eddy]

The problem with Catholicism is this adherence to strict dogma and ritualism. If you want to practice religion, you shouldn't be wrapped up in minutiae; genuflection, sainthood, all of those are unnecessary distractions.

They aren't distractions, they're vital tools of the faith. Stripped of holy ritual, sacrifice, and sacraments, it may as well just be a gathering to meditate. These things are part of the religion, and always will be.

 

[Netto Azure]

I have no problem with him being a saint. He was a very spiritual man who helped many have a deeper relationship with God. That's what really counts.

I agree with this. If the Church believes he is a saint, then why not so?

Then again that's just me sympathizing as a Roman Catholic. :x

 

[RYOUKI]

I'm just really surprised that he's going to turn into a saint. Pope John Paul II has always have a special meaning to me since I am named after me. Iirc in religion studies, isn't being beautified takes place in about 50 or so years? I remember that to be declared a saint, they need to do background checks and such. heck, Mother Theresa isn't even declared a saint and she died centuries ago. Though that's just my 2 cents, and I could be wrong since I haven't had religion studies since elementary school.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I agree with this. If the Church believes he is a saint, then why not so?

Then again that's just me sympathizing as a Roman Catholic. :x

Well, being a saint is merely recognition that he is in Heaven. Everybody in Heaven is a technically a saint; not just those that are canonized by the Church. According to Christian theology, how good or bad of a person doesn't matter in where you go in the afterlife. Jesus Christ died for our sins so that all those who believe in him will be saved. Every human being is a sinner, so under that standard, we'd all burn in Hell.