Revamping the threat list.

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Dark Azelf

Dark Azelf

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    https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=168147

    Well since this is quite outdated set wise i think it needs a revamp that and because no one is doing anything about it, i thought id take the first step.

    Ive updated most of the sets with tutors/counters etc regularly since Platinum so that's not the problem, its just sets that are used and weren't back then and sets that which were used back then arent now (SR on Scarf Heatran..).

    So ive gone through the list to nitpick.

    Heatran

    • Less Stealth Rock and Toxic and more Dragon Pulse on the Scarfer.
    • LO Tran + Trap Tran needs adding.
    • Sub Tran id class as offensive threat since it technically is.
    Tyranitar

    • Obligatory "ScarfTar" needs adding lol
    • Bait Tar
    • MixTar
    Gengar

    • Sub Special Gar.
    Infernape

    • Physical Mixape needs adding
    • Swords Dance Ape needs adding
    • Scarf Ape does too.
    Metagross

    • Zen Headbutt mention ?
    Jirachi

    • Mix Jirachi DEFINITELY needs adding.
    Suicune

    • Is CroCune really an offensive threat ? Im not sure that it really is since like everything beats it lol
    Magnezone

    • Charge Beam and LO Zone need adding. Seen a few of these lately.
    Mamoswine

    • Ev spread for the CBer (needs a /Life Orb anyway). What do HP evs do ?
    Breloom

    • Choice Loom
    Flygon

    • Fire Blast needs mentioning on the scarfer since its the only way you are doing anything to Skarm with that set and its more powerful without a band than Fire Punch is.
    • Those funky LO Flygon.
    Dragonite

    • DDer is here why ? Needs replacing with the sets that arent awful and Outclassed by Mence i.e CBer, Cleric Dancer, Specs (differs from Mence and Latias as it has SuperPower to nail special walls) etc. Anti Lead Nite is technically a threat too since it does come back later in the game and pick things off with Extremespeed and can function as a wall breaker but i guess this can be saved for when we do a lead threat list.
    Rhyperior

    • lol UU Rhyperior. - Rhyperior + Roserade basically.

    Snorlax

    • No "offensive" Lax ? O.o Ill actually just slash Leftovers and Fire Blast on the current CBer.
    Jolteon

    • Charge Beam Jolt
    Porygon-Z

    • Is BL.
    Machamp.

    • Sub Champ is a huge threat and one that needs mentioning.
    • Bulk Up Machamp.
    Dugtrio

    • Lol uu Duggy.
    Alakazam

    • Is UU
    Yanmega

    • Is BL.
    Thats all i can spot so far. Feel free to add comments if you spot something else that needs adding and what not about it i.e any sets i may have missed that are relevant. If i get the go ahead ill edit it (mainly from Anti since it IS his sticky) but i appreciate everyones opinions all the same.

    Secondly, the UU Pokemon need removing and Roserade needs adding (though it doesnt really do much in OU bar leading but i guess specs and scarf and LO could be added). UU Pokes getting replaced by current BL Pokemon possibly ? Idk, opinions ?

    Also how would people feel about it if i did a mini threat list that could be C+P'd directly into RMT's ?

    Lastly, how is the defensive threat list coming along ? (Anti =P)
     
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    Archer said:
    CroCune is easily handled with the right checks, but it still needs to be accounted for, IMO because if you don't have something that can deal with it quickly, it's an issue. Leave it there if it's already there.
    Click to expand...

    But cant you use any Pokemon's name where CroCune is and it basically reads the same and can be said about any Pokemon ? XD

    I mean there is like Mence, Gyarados, Latias out of just the top 6 that destroy it. The only time it works is with Spikes stacked up, so i see it as more of a defensive threat in all honesty (i.e for the other sticky that isnt made yet and not this one)

    Though if CroCune is here then Curselax/Tar needs to be mentioned. ~_~ lol
     
    Is MysticGar already in the offensive threats analysis? It definitely deserves a mention because of its ability to lure Scizor and whatnot.

    Also yea Zen Headbutt is big on Agiligross now, idk about CB/etc.
     
    The Bulky Gyara set on that list has different EV spreads from the current one:

    156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

    Thats the new one.
     
    If you want, you can move the more common sets like CB Scizor above SD Scizor, New MixMence above Old MixMence, LO Starmie above Choice Starmie, Scarf Hera and SD Hera above CB Hera, etc, just a thought.

    New MixMence now uses an EV spread of 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Speed and Naive nature. You could also add Flamethrower as a slash beside Fire Blast.

    Agility Lucario is very rare so I assume it could be deleted, as well as Agility Dragonite.

    Flame Orb is actually more common than CB on Hera, so you could at least add a slash beside Life Orb on the SD set as well as slashing Facade beside Stone Edge.

    Since Spore is a lot more common on Breloom than Leech Seed, I would make it the primary move and add Leech Seed and possibly Stone Edge (?) as a slash beside Seed Bomb.

    Add Rapid Spin beside Recover as a slash on LO Starmie since I've seen it being used sometimes.

    Pain Split could be added on LO Rotom-A, might not be common enough though.

    Rain Special Kingdra is used enough to be added a set I would think:

    Shoddy Statistics - January said:
    | Kingdra | Move | Surf | 22.6 |
    | Kingdra | Move | Dragon Pulse | 14.9 |
    | Kingdra | Move | Ice Beam | 13.4 |
    | Kingdra | Move | HP-Electric | 6.4 |
    | Kingdra | Move | Signal Beam | 5.3 |
    Click to expand...

    Scarf Togekiss is decently common enough to be added as a set (| Togekiss | Item | Choice Scarf | 13.4 |).

    I don't play OU much anymore so I took most of those from the statistics. :x
     
    Well I mean the small stuff like ScarfTran moveset changes can just be edited in...no need for a thread on them lol.

    As for the rest of the stuff, I don't really agree with most of it since it goes against the whole spirit of the threat list itself when I made the revamp. The idea is that if you can handle the sets I listed, you can probably handle any set they throw at you. Some additions are definitely necessary--ScarfTar, BaitTar, and Sub Machamp, but most of the sets mentioned are very obscure and generally terrible. MixTar and ScarfApe come to mind. I mean I already gave you the green light to edit minor stuff in staff forums so again, I don't know why this is a priority o_O

    That aside, I'll go through my thoughts on a few points though I won't go in depth since this is better for Shoddy anyway.

    CroCune stays. It's unique from other Suicune sets and while it's easy to beat for any good battler, this isn't something primarily for good battlers (and they can just skip over it anyway). Most newbies are terribly CroCune weak, so there is no reason to delete it.

    As I mentioned earlier, I'm not adding things like ScarfApe. The thread already needs three posts. No need to put in very bad things.

    No one uses Choice Breloom. Not adding it.

    No one uses LO Flygon. Not adding it either. Besides, virtually every counter to the CBer works for that anyway.

    Mamoswine has HP EVs to help its bulk since extra Speed EVs don't do it a whole lot of good. If you want to change though I don't really care but that's why it's there.

    No one uses LO Mag, Not adding it.

    Charge Beam Magnezone is still too obscure to add IMO. Besides, it's not like it's particularly difficult to beat. "If you can beat Specs Mag, you can probably beat Charge Beam Mag too."

    Dugtrio stays. It's not used much, but it is notable simply because it can still completely do you in if you don't prepare for it. "But Anti, that's true of all Pokemon." Well yes, but Dugtrio is a trapper so it's not like you can "predict around it" or anything. Your Pokemon just dies.

    Dragon Dance is on 42% of Dragonites. This isn't "list of the best things for the top Pokemon," this is "list of what people actually use." Not removing it. As for its other sets, Specs is basically a worse Salamence/MixMence/MixNite and is never used. Ever. "If you beat MixNite, you beat the lead set." CB might be added but I doubt it since again, if you're prepared for Salamence, CBNite won't be an issue, and no one uses it either ~_~.

    "If you beat CBLax, you beat offensive Lax." However Curse really needs to be added, I don't know why I opposed its entry originally (all I remember is opposing it), but it is used quite a lot and is certainly more viable than things like CroCune.

    I'll slash in Life Orb and Charge Beam on the existing Specs set for Jolteon.


    That's about all I'm going to cover right now. You can edit in minor changes as you see fit and I'll get around to adding the few sets I actually feel are worthy of being added. With that, I don't really think there is much more that needs to be discussed besides the UU Pokemon which I'm rather inclined to agree with you on. Outside of that I don't really know what there is to be discussed.

    EDIT: D_A and I discussed this and we pretty much know exactly how we're going to tackle this. Thanks for the suggestions. This has, however, served its purpose. Lock time.
     
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