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RMT, again.

No, "a little prediction" isn't going to beat Gyarados. Thunderbolt isn't for coverage, it's for Gyarados. Weezing barely beats Gyarados even witgh Thunderbolt >_<

Gengar is outsped and destroyed after one DD. I honestly don't know why people switch in Gengar on Gyarados or think Gengar is a good answer to Gyarados (not just sims, I mean a lot of people on shoddy). Prediction can work against stuff like CB Gyarados, but not against the DDer. It can just DD and kill what is in front of it if you're Gyarados weak.DD and Gengar comes in, Waterfall and it's dead. Prediction can't stop that. Basically what I'm saying is that prediction can only take you so far, and even the best players can't predict right all the time.

I know WiFi isn't convenient like Shoddy, but that doesn't mean Cresselia and Mesprit should be obsolete because of that. Mesprit is probably the best answer to the threats posed to this team. There isn't much else that can help. I honestly don't know any ingame stuff about DP so I can't help much with that...you know, besides who the starters are and stuff lol.

Not much else gives you MixApe and dragons coverage. the only other thing I can think of is a Suicune investing a lot of EVs in SDef, but then Garchomp is going to be a bigger issue >_<
 
Alright, now I'm confused about who to lead with. Swampert's looking good, though, since he isn't completely forfeited if an opponent decides to lead with a certain Pokemon. However, Mixape leads might be trouble. On the other hand, Gengar can switch in on Grass Knot, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot (assuming Ape predicts a switch), outspeed, and scare him off with LO Shadow Ball, or just Hypnosis him/ whoever the opponent switches into.

Come to think of it, Gengar can come in on a lot of predicted attacks with Mixape. Close Combats aimed at Blissey, Lucario (not that Nape can stand an SD Extremespeed), and Weavile (or Mach Punch, rather); Grass Knots aimed at Swampert (see above); and of course, Nasty Plots when he predicts a switch. And with Stealth Rock on the field, he'll soon be in KO range for Shadow Ball. The problem is outpredictions- I'd have to take care of Mixape that turn, or getting Gengar in the next time won't be so easy.

So, any other threats? Or is my plan for Nape too shaky to be considered?
 
airconditioning said:
Alright, now I'm confused about who to lead with. Swampert's looking good, though, since he isn't completely forfeited if an opponent decides to lead with a certain Pokemon. However, Mixape leads might be trouble. On the other hand, Gengar can switch in on Grass Knot, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot (assuming Ape predicts a switch), outspeed, and scare him off with LO Shadow Ball, or just Hypnosis him/ whoever the opponent switches into.

Come to think of it, Gengar can come in on a lot of predicted attacks with Mixape. Close Combats aimed at Blissey, Lucario (not that Nape can stand an SD Extremespeed), and Weavile (or Mach Punch, rather); Grass Knots aimed at Swampert (see above); and of course, Nasty Plots when he predicts a switch. And with Stealth Rock on the field, he'll soon be in KO range for Shadow Ball. The problem is outpredictions- I'd have to take care of Mixape that turn, or getting Gengar in the next time won't be so easy.

So, any other threats? Or is my plan for Nape too shaky to be considered?
Click to expand...

I'm telling ya, Swampert makes an awesome lead. Bronzong can only Hypnosis it, Grass Knot won't OHKO I think. But still, it counters a lot of things. You could fit Roar in there if you want to stop set ups.
 
Anti Pop Culture Warrior said:
No, "a little prediction" isn't going to beat Gyarados. Thunderbolt isn't for coverage, it's for Gyarados. Weezing barely beats Gyarados even witgh Thunderbolt >_<
What? This is whre I disagree completely. Gya barely 3HKO's it. And by coverage, I meant by takingon Gya (covering Gya). With a DD, it's a 3HKO. weexing doesn't have much Gya problems at all.

Gengar is outsped and destroyed after one DD. I honestly don't know why people switch in Gengar on Gyarados or think Gengar is a good answer to Gyarados (not just sims, I mean a lot of people on shoddy). Prediction can work against stuff like CB Gyarados, but not against the DDer. It can just DD and kill what is in front of it if you're Gyarados weak.DD and Gengar comes in, Waterfall and it's dead. Prediction can't stop that. Basically what I'm saying is that prediction can only take you so far, and even the best players can't predict right all the time.
That's why, if you had read the RESTof the posts, you'll see I made a burn (there can be only one) by saying prediction is the manlier way of doing things. Predict a Taunt ocmming in on Weezing, switch to Gengar. But, i feel Weezing handles it pretty comfortably. If he want's more security (& a dress) T-Bolt is the way to go.

I know WiFi isn't convenient like Shoddy, but that doesn't mean Cresselia and Mesprit should be obsolete because of that. Mesprit is probably the best answer to the threats posed to this team. There isn't much else that can help. I honestly don't know any ingame stuff about DP so I can't help much with that...you know, besides who the starters are and stuff lol.
It's because you don't play wifi that is why you don'tunderstand. Notice how we always say "sims bred for 5 months for an HP ICE Oddish"? That is serious crap right there, that probably isn't for everyone. I can't imagine soft-reseting for one. He can't magically make one, it may take minutes, hours, weeks, or more (not years, of course not). Aome pokemon are just obsolete.
Not much else gives you MixApe and dragons coverage. the only other thing I can think of is a Suicune investing a lot of EVs in SDef, but then Garchomp is going to be a bigger issue >_<
Vileplume does. Vileplume covers everything. He just chooses to be fire weak.
Click to expand...

You tried. At least you made sense. But what's viable in Shoddy may not be so in wifi. I personally like that indifference.
 
Weezing doesn't have Gyarados problems if it has Thunderbolt. Must have worded that badly. I see what you mean with the Taunt prediction and going to Gengar, but you can only pull that off about once and then you're playing with fire. BTW, if Gyarados has one DD (a likely scenario as Weezing switches in on it), Gengar is going to get pummeled by Waterfall even if it switches in safely, as it fails to outspeed Gyarados.

I actually did read the posts sims >_<

I know well how long it takes to breed since I have in RSE myself, for hours and hours and hours. Still, go on Youtube and watch WiFi battles. There are plenty of Cresselias and Uxies and Mesprits around. I do understand you know. I'm just saying that the time and effort should not stop you from using certain things. I bred for the right Hidden Power and IVs on my Kingdra for 4 months.

"But what's viable in Shoddy may not be so in wifi."

That isn't true at all. It is the same metagame with the same pokemon and the same game mechanics. The only difference is that there aren't perfect IVs everywhere, but that doesn't change a whole lot (I have link battled in Ruby so I can relate to this more than you think). I'm not being indifferent here...I know what WiFiers have to go through, since I have gone through that myself.

Mesprit and Cresselia are honestly the only things I can think of that reliably stop both, unless you want some novelty like Scarf Gyarados (who's going to get smashed by SR anyways). Not many things can counter MixApe and Garchomp/CBmence. you can try Starmie, just don't expect it to take hits like a pro.
 
I see little reason to use Sludge Bomb. Sure it's got STAB, but Thunderbolt gives Weezing greater coverage against steels, flying types, water types, and Ghost types.
 
And you can understand, that isn't for everyone. Waiting to play for months can indeed makethings unusable. Settling is just about the best you can do at times. Wifi is actually different from shoddy, more than you think. Along with not having ccertain moves availible, and survivability being less so, there are things unavailible, a huge differetion of the stregnths of pokes.

Just because you see alot of battlers with legends, doesn't mean that relates to everyone. just because they went for months breeding, doesn't mean it's for everyone. To say that it's the same is just wrong. Same metagame, yeah, but not so much the same pokes. He has said he doesn't want to breed for the Uxie & the likes, so those pokes may just be unusable.

Ya don't really see what wifiers have to go through, at least not on the same scale. If you did, you'd understand exactly what I mean. I have nothing but frree time, others may not. They may just have to settle on whatever may be best, (which is why I have more sympathy for fair hackers. I can't even get RSE moves. It sucks.

EDIT: Excuse me, Ttar? Fire takes care of PHYSICAL STEELS, what flying does Weezing need to cover, what phyhsical water does it need to cover, and T-Bolt offers no coverage to Ghost. In fact, Sludge Bomb does better.
 
sims796 said:
And you can understand, that isn't for everyone. Waiting to play for months can indeed makethings unusable. Settling is just about the best you can do at times. Wifi is actually different from shoddy, more than you think. Along with not having ccertain moves availible, and survivability being less so, there are things unavailible, a huge differetion of the stregnths of pokes.

Just because you see alot of battlers with legends, doesn't mean that relates to everyone. just because they went for months breeding, doesn't mean it's for everyone. To say that it's the same is just wrong. Same metagame, yeah, but not so much the same pokes. He has said he doesn't want to breed for the Uxie & the likes, so those pokes may just be unusable.

Ya don't really see what wifiers have to go through, at least not on the same scale. If you did, you'd understand exactly what I mean. I have nothing but frree time, others may not. They may just have to settle on whatever may be best, (which is why I have more sympathy for fair hackers. I can't even get RSE moves. It sucks.

EDIT: Excuse me, Ttar? Fire takes care of PHYSICAL STEELS, what flying does Weezing need to cover, what phyhsical water does it need to cover, and T-Bolt offers no coverage to Ghost. In fact, Sludge Bomb does better.
Click to expand...

Thunderbolt does more to Gengar than Sludge Bomb. And when I say flying, I'm talking about those Skarmory.

What physical water does it cover? Gyarados perhaps. Gyarados is a huge threat to this team, and Weezing can effectively couner it.
 
Ghosts resist Sludge Bomb I'm pretty sure...but seriously, unless ac wants his team to be Gyarados weak totally, Thunderbolt that thing.

sims I guarantee I've put in at least as many hours breeding as any single person on this forum. If you want to win, it takes hard work. You can even avoid it by simply going to the trade forums here and getting pokemon you need. I didn't have that luxury ._.

Honestly I think settling on a Mesprit or Cresselia with only decent IVs or whatever would work. This team just needs something that can take MixApe and Garchomp. Starmie and Vaporeon can to an extent (talking about Garchomp here mostly), but Cresselia and Mesprit are more reliable in general.

I can only suggest things that work from a strategy standpoint. I'm trying my best to work around the wifi thing but it's really hard to in this case >_<
 
And that is what I mean.

No, I don't really thik you could have bred enough as wifi battlers. You also had netbattle. People have whole boxes full of pokes that they have been breeding evar since the game came out. Breeding on Ruby & breeding for wifi is not the same. And trading doesn't give you desired results. first, you gotta hope they have it. Aside from D_A, I only got three things out of the fifteen threads I've made. 24 on different threads. So, altogether, I got 3/39 things from trade threads. Aside from hacks.

Nah, gost don't resist poison, Gengar does, and it takes the same amount of damage as FLAMETHROWER, to almost all that he said same with Skar. And Ttar, Anti and I are debating that right now, you can't use Gya in that arguement yet. Why would you bring up "it counters Gya" if we are talking about that right now?

Now, as I said more than once, if he is shakey on it, go with T-bolt. It is more secure. However, get your tu-tu ready.

I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.

sims796 said:
Well, if it was Pokesav'ed, the thread would be closed :P

But yeah, unless you wanna be a man & go all powah over T-Bolt, use Sludge Bomb. If ya wanna wear a tu-tu, go for coverage on T-Bolt. Ya dame.

Yeah, just shamelessly burning Anti-Pop for a moment. Like Highlander, there can be only one.

But since Gya with at least one DDance gives you issues, go T-Bolt.

You skirt.
Click to expand...
 
sims796 said:
I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to take that into account, but there's only so much I can do. What am I supposed to say? "Well just let your team get massacred by Garchomp and MixApe since you can't obtain Cresselia and Mesprit." I'm trying to offer alternatives -_-

Just because I netbattle and shoddy battle doesn't mean I don't breed at all. I still breed since I want to beat The Battle Frontier, also known as hax palace. Even in my young newbie years in 3rd grade when I played ingame I bred a lot ._. All I ask is that you please don't just assume how much time I've used breeding pokemon because you don't know ;) The Battle Frontier is...not fun.

I want to set this straight now: I agree Thunderbolt Weezingt counters Gyarados. Period.

My only suggestions I can really make confidently are Mesprit, Cresselia, and maybe Vaporeon and Starmie >>> Lucario.

EDIT: Even if Weezing is wearing a tutu it's better safe than sorry against one of the most used and powerful sweepers in the game.
 
ITHAT WASN'T MY ARGUMENT.

It was "Weezing doesn't need Tbolt to still be a Gya counter". I said that if you wear hot pants, or are a Mets Fan (baseball burn), go Tbolt. If you grow chest hair, go all Sludge Bomb.

My point was, don't speak for everyone. That is unfair to all other battlers. It's not about how much time you take, but those are some insulting things to say, "I bred as much as everyone here", as you do not shar the same experiences, and keep saying they are all the same. Maybe you did breed, but stop using the experiences you faced as if it is all the same. If they were the same, I would not be arguing.
 
So we've agreed that Mesprit and Cresselia cover both, but are not good options due to the difficulty of obtaining them. So if we can find another counter, we should.

And that Thunderbolt (in this case) offers a better way to deal with Gyarados.

You guys both know what you are doing, don't argue about it. Now, I'm going to look for a replacement for Mesprit and Cressy....

EDIT: Damn. It's hard enough trying to find a reliable Garchomp counter, let alone finding one that covers Mixape, two. Maybe you're gonna have to cover one and hope to avoid the other. Or just have something be able to revenge kill Infernape.
 
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sims796 said:
Now, as I said more than once, if he is shakey on it, go with T-bolt. It is more secure. However, get your tu-tu ready.
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I don't care. I'm already a bad enough dude to save the president. >:(

I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.
Click to expand...

Hey, I never said that I wasn't going to put in the time to SR for those guys (well, I was planning on skipping Mesprit, as I never saw the appeal, but that's irrelevant.). I was just whining that it would be a pain to soft-reset for them. Cresselia is on my list of Legends to soft reset for (a list that, sadly, is populated by almost every legendary G/S and up.), so this just means that she moved up on my priorities. I want to make my team the best it can be, within attainable limits. And since Cresselia is available to me (once I beat the E4 on my flashcart save), that's definitely within attainable limits.

So now, the question is this: what set do I use? What Pokemon should they replace? Should I use Cresselia or Mesprit?
 
Pesonally i like sludge bomb, because well breaking subs is nice...


throws in his two sense were it don't belong :(
 
Cresselia is a much sturdier wall but Mesprit can actually hurt things. It's kind of up to you. Personally, I would run a Thunder Wave/Reflect/Ice Beam/Psychic set with either one (it's a great set for both pokemon), or a resttalker so it has some recovery to work with.

I'd really EV it defensively though whichever one you use. Just be sure that if you use Mesprit it has some SAtk to get kills.
 
I was swept by a Mespirit on shoddy. This is why I hate shoddy. I'd go with that, but that's because I can nevar settle. but personally, just me, but I always found Cressy settup foder.

Well, if your a bad enough dude to save the president, you don't need help. You can even beat Ash Kethum. He beated a Rhydon with T-bolt by "hitting the horn".
 
Hmm... I think I may go with Mesprit here. He can cover Infernape, Gyarados, and can help in defeating Garchomp- both very big threats. Archer's set seems like it would be best:

Mesprit @ Lefties
Bold
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
~Psychic
~Thunderbolt
~Ice Beam
~U-Turn

Now, who to replace? Given that Mesprit as such a good movepool, he makes a good Special attacker. So, I could easily put him over Gengar- I rarely use Hypnosis anyway. And much of what Gengar covers is also covered by Lucario.

The problem is that with that, one of my speediest Pokes is gone, leaving me with only one Poke with good Speed- Weavile (Lucario is about average- not high enough for me to rely on, though). And he can't hit particularly hard. Not to mention this leaves me with one less answer to Tyranitar (should Tyranitar switch in on Mesprit, she's gone- Jolly CBTar horribly outspeeds him). Although given that I have Weavile and Lucario already, it might not be too large of a problem.

sims796 said:
You can even beat Ash Kethum. He beated a Rhydon with T-bolt by "hitting the horn".
Click to expand...

Hmm... he sounds like a tough trainer. But don't worry, I can use Thunder as armor!
 
Wait...how is Gengar even close to Tyranitar coverage? It can't switch in on almost all of its attacks and it just gets hammered...

Mesprit looks cool. Set is fine, though honestly I think you're going to want Thunder wave for the speed issues you mentioned.

though just to say that while Cresselia might be a set-up fodder for a lot of pokemon, its ability to counter the game's most powerful sweepers should not be taken lightly ;)
 
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