ROM Hacking Discussions

[NarutoActor]

acorse not like I said they proberly did not evern think there would be rom hackers

 

[Pokepal17]

lol wtf? They didn't make a scripting language for their games because they wanted people to be able to hack them. They did it so that all script writers didn't need to know ASM to write scripts. And if you make a script properly it will work 100% of the time. Its human errors that make scripts behave strangely.

Not all the time. Look at the legendary wildbattles in Fire Red. There's something missing to make it work right if we coded it from scratch, but et it still works. And even if we alter the value of the Pokemon, it stops working correctly.

Same with the game corner Pokemon script. It's not just me whose edited the variables for the POkemon and found then it doesn't work correctly. I recoded the script from scratch, exactly the same and then it worked.

So I don't always think it's human error.

 

[Ven]

acorse not like I said they proberly did not evern think there would be rom hackers

That is something I highly doubt, rom hacking has been around for a while, whether it was hacking pokemon or hacking mario games, I seriously doubt that they wouldn't have thought of this.
Rom hacking isn't as big as you would think, neither is Emulation, even if people are hacking pokemon, even if they're emulating it or putting it on flashcards, they're still making millions off this franchise, emulation is barely making a dent in it.

 

[thethethethe]

lol wtf? They didn't make a scripting language for their games because they wanted people to be able to hack them. They did it so that all script writers didn't need to know ASM to write scripts.

What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.

 

[NarutoActor]

I agrea with thethethethe

 

[Blaziquaza]

What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at Gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.

I agree with you.I mean,heck.If they don't know it how would we?

 

[Thrace]

What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.

I meant that they probably would just have had the programmers write the engine and a few programs so other people (story developers etc.) would be able to do the scripts much easier.

But yeah, I didn't think of that. The main reason was probably to save space.

 

[HackMew]

Not all the time. Look at the legendary wildbattles in Fire Red. There's something missing to make it work right if we coded it from scratch, but et it still works. And even if we alter the value of the Pokemon, it stops working correctly.

No, there's nothing missing. There are some specials indeed.

What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.

Sorry, but the games weren't coded in assembly. They were coded using C. Which got later assembled in ASM. Regarding scripting... it was introduced by Gold and Silver. Think about it as convenient way to execute pre-defined ASM routines with ease, saving a lot of space too.

 

[TehBazzard]

On the topic of Nintendo and the codes, I personally think that its stupid to think that the code is how it is in regards of us hackers. I'm sure Nintendo exists, but why would they make it easier for people to edit it? I think that they just didn't care about us. In fact they are probably against ROM editing in a sense. You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us. Both fortunately and unfortunately, technology by the people will almost always triumph anti-piracy methods by video game companies. If it doesn't then it will be, so efforts are futile, but they must be made.

Anyways, how about a new topic for us guys making a hack? My hack is pretty much an expansion to FireRed, but as it develops more, I'll try and add more beef to that statement. I decided to replace some pokemon sprites in the game because I felt they didn't do justice to the Pokemon (why does Tyranitar, The Three Johto Beasts, and Dragonite look so cartoony, almost goofy?) or because I saw some sprites that looked a bit neater (Combusken's second frame of animation in Emerald looks totally cool!). I even saw some sprites from Pokemon Pinball Ruby and Sapphire and thought they looked so nice that I decided to "repair" them so they can go into the game (for those of you that didn't play Pokemon Pinball RS, the pokedex sprites for pokemon were cropped into a box.). Now I just need to understand why the hell unlz.gba won't insert them even with this tut...

 

[thethethethe]

You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us.

That is some grade A wikipedia crap. I looked at that and didn't believe it so I checked. There's no mention of aything along those lines in the ROM anywhere.
But I actually agree with you. Nintendo did not have us in mind when they did anything in the game. Really, why would they? Why waste time and money just to annoy us ROM Hackers.

 

[NarutoActor]

haha yeah that never happened to me
like I said they proberly didnt think it would happen and proberly didnt care they made so much monny of firered alone

 

[sasquatchd00d]

haha yeah that never happened to me
like I said they proberly didnt think it would happen and proberly didnt care they made so much monny of firered alone

They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.

 

[TehBazzard]

They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.

Well also I reliased you have to consider the fact that most of Pokemon target audience is kids. They probably would release it and still make a profit even with ROM hacking and dumping. Also there is the chance that Nintendo probably doesn't explore the community (or more like didn't at the time) to know about ROM hacking, but that seems unlikely. Further more, all companies probably are aware of piracy, but they won't let it get in the way of sales. I still stick with my idea. Also maybe Nintendo is aware of the fact that ROM hacking doesn't really hurt their sales because all hackers are pokemon fans and they buy the games in the series and likely already own the game that has the ROM they are editing (such as myself). Hell, we even put anti-piracy methods in OUR hacks so those damn rip-off salesmen stop putting our games into flash carts.
However, I think that why the code is so wonky for us might be due to coincidence. Its not like Nintendo used the tools that we use for our ROM hacks (except Mid2AGB).

 

[hi sir tomato my password is syvniti]

What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.

Even though that, I doubt the games was written in ASM, propperly C, or some more "humanfreindly" Language?
Edit: Hackmew, You'll never make any freinds by being SOOO anoying...

They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.

What kind of statement is that?
That doesn't make any sense?

Also maybe Nintendo is aware of the fact that ROM hacking doesn't really hurt their sales because all hackers are pokemon fans and they buy the games in the series and likely already own the game that has the ROM they are editing (such as myself).

I'm not a fan nor own the game.

However, I think that why the code is so wonky for us might be due to coincidence. Its not like Nintendo used the tools that we use for our ROM hacks (except Mid2AGB).

My dog eats dog food.

 

[HackMew]

On the topic of Nintendo and the codes, I personally think that its stupid to think that the code is how it is in regards of us hackers. I'm sure Nintendo exists, but why would they make it easier for people to edit it? I think that they just didn't care about us. In fact they are probably against ROM editing in a sense. You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us. Both fortunately and unfortunately, technology by the people will almost always triumph anti-piracy methods by video game companies. If it doesn't then it will be, so efforts are futile, but they must be made.

Hold your horses. Don't mix hacking and cheating. Nintendo/GameFreak will do anything possible to stop cheaters. That's why they introduced, for example, a checksum in the Pokémon core data (which is encrypted too), or why since FR/LG there are no static offsets for bag items and such, or why cheated Mew/Deoxys won't obey. Also, you misunderstood the "buy or die" thingy. The game won't constanstly mention it or whatever:

I couldn't believe it, but it's actually there. Me and Andrea did some comparing. His Fire Red 1.0 didn't have it, and mine did. The original Auroraticket message is at 0x17FC5F, but is repointed, copied and expanded at 0x71A23D, which is the start of a large block of free space, leaving the original unused. This is why Hfc2x couldn't find anything but empty space. The "Buy it or Die" ROMs are technically just quick and easy hacks. Still, it's fairly innocious and the guy does say having an Auroraticket is rare. I think the word "some" would be appropriate. --Kyoufu Kawa

The full message is "Oh! That's an AURORATICKET!\nNow that is rare.\lWe'll be happy to take you to\nBIRTH ISLAND anytime.\lBy the way: If you\nlike this game, buy it or die." Whoever modified it, he/she didn't have the source code, otherwhise the rest of the ROM data would have been shifted, considering the modified message is longer.

While they can make life harder for cheaters, they can't do much at all (if they would actually care anyway) to prevent hackers editing their games.

 

[hi sir tomato my password is syvniti]

While they can make life harder for cheaters, they can't do much at all (if they would actually care anyway) to prevent hackers editing their games.

I believe a lot of this Pokemon hacking could be prevented.
Sure it would still be possible to hack, but if was storred harder, a lot of those tools would propperly not exits, and the amount of people being able to hack the games, would be drasticly decreased.

 

[squire]

How would you guys feel about..

A romhack with only the original 151 Pokemon available in game?

 

[TehBazzard]

Hold your horses. Don't mix hacking and cheating. Nintendo/GameFreak will do anything possible to stop cheaters. That's why they introduced, for example, a checksum in the Pokémon core data (which is encrypted too), or why since FR/LG there are no static offsets for bag items and such, or why cheated Mew/Deoxys won't obey. Also, you misunderstood the "buy or die" thingy. The game won't constanstly mention it or whatever:



The full message is "Oh! That's an AURORATICKET!\nNow that is rare.\lWe'll be happy to take you to\nBIRTH ISLAND anytime.\lBy the way: If you\nlike this game, buy it or die." Whoever modified it, he/she didn't have the source code, otherwhise the rest of the ROM data would have been shifted, considering the modified message is longer.

While they can make life harder for cheaters, they can't do much at all (if they would actually care anyway) to prevent hackers editing their games.

Ok so I was partially right about that whole "buy or die" stuff. Ok. And yeah I guess I did mix hacking and cheating up. Probably because when my friend made an area in his map that allows one to capture Mew (via grass, and before anyone says that isn't nicely polish, its somewhat of a joke hack), and when I cought it, it wouldn't obey, which I knew was due to the anti-cheating method and thus I had assumed Nintendo coupled hacking and cheating in one problem.

I believe a lot of this Pokemon hacking could be prevented.
Sure it would still be possible to hack, but if was storred harder, a lot of those tools would propperly not exits, and the amount of people being able to hack the games, would be drasticly decreased.

You seem to know that no matter what a company does, hacking/cheating/pirating will always be around and circumnavigate through their attempts to stop such behavior. If they did try to store code harder (thanks to my lack of hex I don't quite know how they could do that), then yes, some tools wouldn't exist, but not a lot. Thanks to the dedication that some of us hackers give, it just would have delayed the amount of time these tools came out, and I doubt it would make such a big of a shift.

I'm not a fan nor own the game.

It just dumbfounds me why a person would mess around with the coding of a game they aren't a fan of, but I digress. Secondly, while this is an issue that is pushed away often, not given a **** about, and overall isn't respected (even by me), but owning a rom of a game you don't own is indeed illegal. I know I may sound like a goody-two shoes, but whatever, I do it myself anyways.

Still why do you mess with Pokemon ROMs if you aren't a fan of the games? Its like how I would draw something without seeing it first. I don't mean to impose, but I'd love to hear it.

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

You seem to know that no matter what a company does, hacking/cheating/pirating will always be around and circumnavigate through their attempts to stop such behavior. If they did try to store code harder (thanks to my lack of hex I don't quite know how they could do that), then yes, some tools wouldn't exist, but not a lot. Thanks to the dedication that some of us hackers give, it just would have delayed the amount of time these tools came out, and I doubt it would make such a big of a shift.



It just dumbfounds me why a person would mess around with the coding of a game they aren't a fan of, but I digress. Secondly, while this is an issue that is pushed away often, not given a **** about, and overall isn't respected (even by me), but owning a rom of a game you don't own is indeed illegal. I know I may sound like a goody-two shoes, but whatever, I do it myself anyways.

Still why do you mess with Pokemon ROMs if you aren't a fan of the games? Its like how I would draw something without seeing it first. I don't mean to impose, but I'd love to hear it.

They may eventually find a way to stop hacking... Hopefully not soon though. They could just make it so that all the scripts are intertwined, and 1 change breaks the ROM, or just... I dunno, but that may eventually be bypassed, so back to Square 1. Or make it so that they make the game un-readable by anything but the console, in other words, lock t he ROM so much, that it cannot be opened. If possible, which I doubt...

Ever heard of the Rubik's Complex? The need to solve the puzzle? Some people aren't fans of games, but hack them because they can, or to learn, or just boredom.

 

[HackMew]

They may eventually find a way to stop hacking... Hopefully not soon though. They could just make it so that all the scripts are intertwined, and 1 change breaks the ROM, or just... I dunno, but that may eventually be bypassed, so back to Square 1. Or make it so that they make the game un-readable by anything but the console, in other words, lock t he ROM so much, that it cannot be opened. If possible, which I doubt...

Why should they? Not to say anything would be hacked anyway, no matter what.