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Serena's Design: The Old vs. The New

Which of Serena's designs do you like?


  • Total voters
    53
20
Posts
10
Years
    • Seen Jun 2, 2016
    Plus , Personality influence A Characters beauty ! Serena's main problem lies in her personality .
    Just look at Y-chan from PokeSpe manga.
    She looks exactly like Serena , Yet she seem far more attractive and Cuter then Serena.
    I guess , Its possibly because of her strong , Brave and head-strong personality that make her cuter then Serena .
    Not to mention , She process leadership quality as she lead the group when X is just too depress to lead anyone.
    In fact , I start crying over the "Serena" we have compare to the Cool "Y-chan" from PokeSpe manga.
    Hello again Famon!!
    I prefer new Serena because she looks beautiful also with short hair and new outfit shows her affection towards Ash.(Yeah.The Blue ribbon gifted by Ash)
    I feel that personality wise, anime version Serena is more kind...
    I find her more cute and beautiful.(Anime Serena is brave.It's seen in scary house episodes that when all are afraid,Serena is seen courageous)
    To show that Anime Serena is way more cute(Right now I have this image only.)
    Spoiler:

    I can agree with you that "Y" looks cool.
    Spoiler:

    But anime version Serena is cool in her own way.
    Spoiler:

    Y-Chan from Pokemon adventures is older than Anime Serena.So she looks bit strong.
    And Anime Serena is determined and has a strong will(haircut episode.That shows her stronger personality.Any other girl would have given up or comitted suicide for that.But Serena is different).
    All the manga girls are not the same as their anime counterparts and you know that.
    So stop crying.
    Anime characters are different from Manga,though they look exactly the same.
    Now do you compare Ash with Red ? Really ?
    Well, I can say that this Anime Serena in this pic is more Strong and Badass.........
    See spoiler for pic
    Spoiler:

    See? She's so cool there!!
    She's so cool for a Pokemon anime girl.
    Calm down XD
     
    Last edited:
    20
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Jun 2, 2016
    Serena is definitely cooler than May that's for sure
    EDIT:
    lol that Boring,Bland and Empty girl so called as May can't even stand a chance in comparision to Serena .She cries more than any other girl.Even more than Serena.
    (Sorry haters)
     
    Last edited:
    2,581
    Posts
    12
    Years
    • Seen Nov 13, 2019
    Hello again Famon!!
    I prefer new Serena because she looks beautiful also with short hair and new outfit shows her affection towards Ash.(Yeah.The Blue ribbon gifted by Ash)
    I feel that personality wise, anime version Serena is more kind...
    I find her more cute and beautiful.(Anime Serena is brave.It's seen in scary house episodes that when all are afraid,Serena is seen courageous)
    To show that Anime Serena is way more cute(Right now I have this image only.)
    tIOi.png

    I can agree with you that "Y" looks cool.
    tIyl.png
    tJ09.png

    But anime version Serena is cool in her own way.
    tJ1P.png
    tJ1o.png
    tJ3R.png
    tJ44.png

    Y-Chan from Pokemon adventures is older than Anime Serena.So she looks bit strong.
    And Anime Serena is determined and has a strong will(haircut episode.That shows her stronger personality.Any other girl would have given up or comitted suicide for that.But Serena is different).
    All the manga girls are not the same as their anime counterparts and you know that.
    So stop crying.
    Anime characters are different from Manga,though they look exactly the same.
    Now do you compare Ash with Red ? Really ?
    Well, I can say that this Anime Serena in this pic is more Strong and Badass.........
    See spoiler for pic
    Spoiler:

    See? She's so cool there!!
    She's so cool for a Pokemon anime girl.
    Calm down XD

    You started with posting big picture again.
    There is no point in posting random picture ! If you talking about that "Serena Smile" Then I like to point out that Its mainly cute because of Animator trick with Color.
    May and Dawn capable of cuter smiler if animator apply the same color--
    latest
    B7WxpDSCUAIahYc.jpg:small


    And just cheek this--
    Spoiler:

    May's beauty is in another level !
    In fact , She is the ultimate Eye-candy!

    Also , Serena always look for others for Confident ! Its ether from Ash , Clemont or sometime Bonnie.
    Not to mention she's way too passive.
    May was in far position then her but she become much more confident and stronger character then Serena become in just 30 episode.
    Also , May crying gave her character more realism and meaning !
    In fact , May was hated by everyone for replacing Misty yet She manage to become One of the most popular girl in the series ! That's proves how good her character really was.

    While , Serena can never match Y-chan.
    Y-chan personality and Look is far better then her ! She seem as good character as Yuzu from Yugioh Arc-v.
    She actually find her own goal and pursue it on her own while Serena needed more encouragement from others before she could tell her goal to her mom.

    Also , Don't try to tell me how Cute Serena is ! If I anyone know how beautiful Serena is then Its Me.
    In fact , I drew this very pic to show how beautiful Serena can become--
    smile_by_idealist99-d9w138d.jpg

    This pic was inspire by this-

    Spoiler:


    So , If I still think Serena is not cuter then Dawn and May then there is a good reason for it.
     
    20
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Jun 2, 2016
    You started with posting big picture again.
    There is no point in posting random picture ! If you talking about that "Serena Smile" Then I like to point out that Its mainly cute because of Animator trick with Color.
    May and Dawn capable of cuter smiler if animator apply the same color--
    latest
    B7WxpDSCUAIahYc.jpg:small


    And just cheek this--
    Spoiler:

    May's beauty is in another level !
    In fact , She is the ultimate Eye-candy!

    Also , Serena always look for others for Confident ! Its ether from Ash , Clemont or sometime Bonnie.
    Not to mention she's way too passive.
    May was in far position then her but she become much more confident and stronger character then Serena become in just 30 episode.
    Also , May crying gave her character more realism and meaning !
    In fact , May was hated by everyone for replacing Misty yet She manage to become One of the most popular girl in the series ! That's proves how good her character really was.

    While , Serena can never match Y-chan.
    Y-chan personality and Look is far better then her ! She seem as good character as Yuzu from Yugioh Arc-v.
    She actually find her own goal and pursue it on her own while Serena needed more encouragement from others before she could tell her goal to her mom.

    Also , Don't try to tell me how Cute Serena is ! If I anyone know how beautiful Serena is then Its Me.
    In fact , I drew this very pic to show how beautiful Serena can become--
    smile_by_idealist99-d9w138d.jpg

    This pic was inspire by this-

    Spoiler:


    So , If I still think Serena is not cuter then Dawn and May then there is a good reason for it.


    Ohh is it really you who drew Serena? Really ?
    I googled the image and found this out
    Spoiler:

    Are you Ideaalist99 ?
    If you really drew it, you're great.But sadly I din't find her to look like Serena at all.I mean she looks non-child friendly(If you know what I mean) and villainic like Jessie.Somehow different from Dori-Dori Serena(But you're a good artist.Did you draw it with MS Paint ? Then you're great for sure)
    Wow!
    Animator trick with Color? really ?
    I know you hate Serena but it's not fair to say things like tricking , trick with colour etc.
    See this then.She looks cute here too.Before that blushing and colour.In fact she looks far cute compared to previous.If you dont find her cute, well that's okay.
    Spoiler:

    I'm sorry I didn't find that May and Dawn are cute in that pic compared to the non colour one which I've posted.

    To be honest, the pics you've posted on May and Dawn shows that they are exactly the same.They aren't different in appearance.They pretty much are the exact same.I feel dawn as a carbon copy of May but Dawn has a better personality ...

    Also , May crying gave her character more realism and meaning !

    Ohh come on dude! You'll never say that Serena crying changed her personality and gave her a good and strong character.You're that kind of guy buddy!

    The pics you've posted shows ORAS version May(Sapphire).It's not fair.Then I'll show that Yvonne(Y) and Serena are the same.
    Now if I'm not wrong it's you who said Y is not comparable to Serena(Even I provided a reason that Serena looks so cool).So does May.She's not even comparable to Sapphire.

    So you've posted a contest version ORAS may huh? I can also show Serena in Performer outfit that shows she's way more beautiful(Not for you.You are same as Ash.You'll not notice her)
    May becomes much more stronger than Serena in episode 30
    Gets defeated by Dawn's Piplup.
    If only Serena gets a Delphox she can easily defeat May's OP Blaziken,Glaceon,Beautifly,and Venusaur with ease.(Ok now leave this issue here and move on.I know what you'll reply here)

    Yeah.May was hated because she was replaced by Misty and so boring.Well if I lost a bit of interest in Pokemon after Misty left .I regained it in gen 4. gen 5 could be good.Gen 6<-- The best in my opinion.(keeping aside amourshipping for a minute)
    I find Serena's looks better than Y in some way and I'm sorry for that.

    Also , Don't try to tell me how Cute Serena is ! If I anyone know how beautiful Serena is then Its Me.
    Oh really? Only you know how beautiful Serena is ? Not the others ? So I don't have the right to say ? Well , do you think all the people in the world who think Serena is most beautiful are dumb?
    Ok it's Famon right ? I forgot.
    I get it.You're that guy who compares Red with Ash.

    So , If I still think Serena is not cuter then Dawn and May then there is a good reason for it.
    Well Ok. I've provided the reasons.
    The cutest in Pokemon besides Serena(In my opinion) is https://youtu.be/bykYblASrsM
    Hope you have a great day ahead :)
     

    Nagi-chan

    I make videos on Youtube about Pokémon and other a
    30
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  • Although the short hair does suit her, I liked the long hair better. Still, making her cut her hair definitely showed a change in her character and strength and also the determination to follow her dream which makes the meaning of the cut more intensive. Also, the new outfit probably fits the short hair better then the long hair would.
     
    20
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Jun 2, 2016
    Although the short hair does suit her, I liked the long hair better. Still, making her cut her hair definitely showed a change in her character and strength and also the determination to follow her dream which makes the meaning of the cut more intensive. Also, the new outfit probably fits the short hair better then the long hair would.

    Long hair makes her unique.But short hair makes her more unique.I like both the styles equally.
    Plus she looks cuter in short hair.New outfit is cool :)
     
    50,218
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • Also, the new outfit probably fits the short hair better then the long hair would.

    Long hair makes her unique.But short hair makes her more unique.I like both the styles equally.
    Plus she looks cuter in short hair.New outfit is cool :)

    You know, this makes me remember a piece of fanart I discovered on Tumblr which showed both her long and short hair with their outfits swapped, and I can see your points. The new outfit suiting the short hair better, plus it helps differentiate from her game counterpart.
     
    2,581
    Posts
    12
    Years
    • Seen Nov 13, 2019
    Ohh is it really you who drew Serena? Really ?
    I googled the image and found this out
    Spoiler:

    Are you Ideaalist99 ?
    If you really drew it, you're great.But sadly I din't find her to look like Serena at all.I mean she looks non-child friendly(If you know what I mean) and villainic like Jessie.Somehow different from Dori-Dori Serena(But you're a good artist.Did you draw it with MS Paint ? Then you're great for sure)
    Wow!
    Animator trick with Color? really ?
    I know you hate Serena but it's not fair to say things like tricking , trick with colour etc.
    See this then.She looks cute here too.Before that blushing and colour.In fact she looks far cute compared to previous.If you dont find her cute, well that's okay.
    Spoiler:

    I'm sorry I didn't find that May and Dawn are cute in that pic compared to the non colour one which I've posted.

    To be honest, the pics you've posted on May and Dawn shows that they are exactly the same.They aren't different in appearance.They pretty much are the exact same.I feel dawn as a carbon copy of May but Dawn has a better personality ...



    Ohh come on dude! You'll never say that Serena crying changed her personality and gave her a good and strong character.You're that kind of guy buddy!

    The pics you've posted shows ORAS version May(Sapphire).It's not fair.Then I'll show that Yvonne(Y) and Serena are the same.
    Now if I'm not wrong it's you who said Y is not comparable to Serena(Even I provided a reason that Serena looks so cool).So does May.She's not even comparable to Sapphire.

    So you've posted a contest version ORAS may huh? I can also show Serena in Performer outfit that shows she's way more beautiful(Not for you.You are same as Ash.You'll not notice her)


    Yeah.May was hated because she was replaced by Misty and so boring.Well if I lost a bit of interest in Pokemon after Misty left .I regained it in gen 4. gen 5 could be good.Gen 6<-- The best in my opinion.(keeping aside amourshipping for a minute)
    I find Serena's looks better than Y in some way and I'm sorry for that.


    Oh really? Only you know how beautiful Serena is ? Not the others ? So I don't have the right to say ? Well , do you think all the people in the world who think Serena is most beautiful are dumb?
    Ok it's Famon right ? I forgot.
    I get it.You're that guy who compares Red with Ash.


    Well Ok. I've provided the reasons.
    The cutest in Pokemon besides Serena(In my opinion) is https://youtu.be/bykYblASrsM
    Hope you have a great day ahead :)

    Yes , I'm Idealist 99 !
    If you want , you can cheek again in the comment section!
    Also , The Pic is based on Adult Serena inspire by one of her Dori Dori design ! That how I imagine Serena as an Adult.

    Serena doesn't look any different then Dawn and May in the picture you posted.
    In fact , She only look different in this
    be231afd-s.jpg


    You see , Her eyes are sparking and there are white spot beneath her eye and lips.
    Then there is the blush.
    Thats call Animator trick with color.
    Dawn and May look cuter if Writer does the same thing to them.

    And ORAS Contest May look clearly more beautiful then Serena look in her Performer outfit!
    Not to mention , Her Wallace Cup outfit make her even hotter then Serena.
    And If yer talking about Dawn contest outfit then Serena doesn't stand a chance-
    Spoiler:



    May becomes much more stronger than Serena in episode 30
    Gets defeated by Dawn's Piplup.
    If only Serena gets a Delphox she can easily defeat May's OP Blaziken,Glaceon,Beautifly,and Venusaur with ease.(Ok now leave this issue here and move on.I know what you'll reply here)
    At least , She didn't got curdstomp by a rookie like Trip 3 time in a row.
    Also May wasn't defeated , She lost because of Time-out ! Plus she used her newly evolved Glaceon on Water field against Dawn's most experience pokemon instate of her experienced Wartortle.
    Its shows that May held back against Dawn due to her trauma.
    Because May could have easily beaten her with Wartortle .
    Do I like point out that May defeated Zoey! The One person that Dawn never able to defeat! Plus , If May's Muchlax evolves into Snorlax that it alone can KO all Serena's team.

    All of people in the world doesn't claim Serena to be the cutest!
    Even those Who loves Dawn & Serena , Admits May to be prettier then them.
    In fact , Serena look somewhat Flashy !
    Compare to that , May has somewhat Genuine Beauty that girls like Sakura (Cardcaptor) and Hikari (Digimon Adventure) has.
     
    Last edited:
    20
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Jun 2, 2016
    Yes , I'm Idealist 99 !
    If you want , you can cheek again in the comment section!
    Also , The Pic is based on Adult Serena inspire by one of her Dori Dori design ! That how I imagine Serena as an Adult.

    Serena doesn't look any different then Dawn and May in the picture you posted.
    In fact , She only look different in this
    be231afd-s.jpg


    You see , Her eyes are sparking and there are white spot beneath her eye and lips.
    Then there is the blush.
    Thats call Animator trick with color.
    Dawn and May look cuter if Writer does the same thing to them.

    And ORAS Contest May look clearly more beautiful then Serena look in her Performer outfit!
    Not to mention , Her Wallace Cup outfit make her even hotter then Serena.
    And If yer talking about Dawn contest outfit then Serena doesn't stand a chance-
    Spoiler:



    At least , She didn't got curdstomp by a rookie like Trip 3 time in a row.
    Also May wasn't defeated , She lost because of Time-out ! Plus she used her newly evolved Glacemon on Water field against Dawn's most experience pokemon instate of her experienced Wartortle.
    Its shows that May held back against Dawn due to her trauma.
    Because May could have easily beaten her with Wartortle .
    Do I like point out that May defeated Zoey! The One person that Dawn never able to defeat! Plus , If May's Muchlax evolves into Snorlax that it alone can KO all Serena's team.

    All of people in the world doesn't claim Serena to be the cutest!
    Even those Who loves Dawn & Serena , Admits May to be prettier then them.
    In fact , Serena look somewhat Flashy !
    Compare to that , May has somewhat Genuine Beauty that girls like Sakura (Cardcaptor) and Hikari (Digimon Adventure) has.

    This time your argument actually makes sense
    I actually felt Serena is more cute before her blush.But I dont know why others felt different.

    I respect your opinion.
    But what I felt is May's oras outfit is better than dawn's outfit.I don't know why you placed Serena's outfit below May's oras or dawn's outfit.But I have no problem.That's your opinion anyways.

    Right now Serena is cute.(Im not mentioning other girls)
    I forgot to show this pic.Im showing this because it's my favourite.But you'll say the third pic in this this is animation trick.In the first pic I see Serena attractive in short hair.(Please forget other girls for now and see the pic)
    Spoiler:

    Man ! That Kawainess killed me ! Particularly the fourth pic where she sticks her tongue out.
    I feel that the episode 22 of XY&Z is made just to show Serena's cuteness.
    But she could also be cute in this way.
    Spoiler:

    If you see the comments of ep 22 90% of comments are that she's so cute,she's so kawai etc

    I only don't agree one thing that all of serena and dawn fans find may cuter . There are many guys who prefer the others too.
    But I agree that May is commonly called as "Hot,S**y" etc. Man they're so much perverted.
    But I also see many say Serena looked hot in old outfit(lol Im not pervert :P)
    But since she cut her hair, her face changed and she looked more like a cute little kid :)
    No I was not meaning all people claim her to be beautiful
    I was saying "All the people who feel her as most beautiful" so calm down dude.
    But....
    May's munchlax cant KO serena's team if Serena gets a Pangoro(dark/fight)
    May's ORAS outfit was better than wallace cup because she looked like a married adult lol .
    I wont annoy you anymore.Because I feel that I was against you some times. Sorry for that .
    And I'll not be active on this forums in a few days.Because I'll have to study hard.
    But I agree with you some points.

    This is offtopic but I'd like to show why I actually dont like May(Even misty).She humiliates Ash infront of Oak and Birch https://youtu.be/eokgHJiDmQw .And if you see episode 7 when Max says"What do you guys think happened to ash and pikachu ?" May says when she's hungry that "Who cares! Lets just enjoy brock's delicious cooking " https://youtu.be/C8Y1rZHTjd0 here in this video 8:34 shows it.
    Well you'll say may changed.That's okay. But the video made me to like Dawn more.
    But if Serena had a bike and if it's destroyed by Ash's Pikachu, Serena's reaction for Ash would be this for sure.lol
    Spoiler:


    But sometimes community of shippers matter. I found Advanceshippping community to be more respect givers and they respect opinions.But pearlshippers are violent and they wont listen to others.
    So if I were to support any ship it would be:
    Amourshipping>>>>Advanceshipping>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pokeshipping/Pearlshipping(They're so violent)

    See this video by PokemonRangerBoy12 and enjoy.Let me know how it is :D (Even I'm not the owner, I like to know from you how the video is)
    https://youtu.be/Usd5Q8IFEo8

    All the best and have a nice day buddy !
    perhaps next time you must conduct a poll on which outfit Serena looks better
    Long hair/Short hair/Hawlucha(valerie)/Florges/Performer/Ash outfit
    I'd definitely vote for Ash outfit.lol
     
    Last edited:

    UltimateFrosty08

    THE DAB MAN
    256
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  • I'm gonna be honest I really don't care
    I know a lot of you are like "OMG why did they change Serena's look to that, That looks Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Ugly" or "Ugh she looks strange now" and stuff like that.

    But its been done and Pokémon will not change it so

    th
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Pok3manMast3r

    Banned
    20
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    • Seen Jul 19, 2016
    I'm gonna be honest I really don't care
    I know a lot of you are like "OMG why did they change Serena's look to that, That looks Sooooooooooooooooooo Ugly" or "Ugh she looks strange now" and stuff like that.

    But its been done and Pokémon will not change it so

    th
    Yeah haven't you guys ever heard "Looks don't matter" it the characteristics and Serena's is the worst are we clear
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    2,581
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    • Seen Nov 13, 2019
    Well , Bottom line is that Serena doesn't look as good as before she cut her hair.
    The Director of Pokemon anime confirmed Female companion role as Eye-candy So I believe we need a cast girl who's good enough to match hot girls like Candice, Alexa or Viola.
    Even Long-hair Serena get overshadow by Alexa despite her "Accidental Curve".
    May on the otherhand was good enough to match Flannary.
    Plus , Serena's new outfit is even worst! She look much better without the Red Fedora.
    tumblr_o59gdqUbdX1t2l5yfo1_400.jpg


    I'm not saying that "Short hair" are Bad But Serena's haircut is doesn't actually fit.
    Just look at Kari Kamiya from Digimon -
    Spoiler:

    Her hair is even shorter then Serena but she still look cuter then her.
    Sometime I regret that Ash didn't age because a lot of amazing girl are out of his reach even though he suppose to be same-aged as them. Plus , Serena need to be de-aged just to match Ash.
    Just imagine if we could have Viola , Candice , Jasmine or Flannary as the heroin of the series.

    I'm gonna be honest I really don't care
    I know a lot of you are like "OMG why did they change Serena's look to that, That looks Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Ugly" or "Ugh she looks strange now" and stuff like that.

    But its been done and Pokémon will not change it so

    th

    Well , Serena might leave soon because of pokemon Sun & Moon !
    However , She can make a cameo appearance in next series With a new hair Style.
    To me , Serena only look Cute in her performer outfit ! However , She doesn't look that good in her casual Outfit-
    tumblr_o50dgmUHnO1t2l5yfo1_500.gif


    From This , I say She might look good if her hair was slightly more longer and dense.
    Maybe , Serena will reappear with Medium-size hair.
    Like her --
    Spoiler:
     
    Last edited:

    UltimateFrosty08

    THE DAB MAN
    256
    Posts
    8
    Years
  • Well , Serena might leave soon because of pokemon Sun & Moon !
    However , She can make a cameo appearance in next series With a new hair Style.
    To me , Serena only look Cute in her performer outfit ! However , She doesn't look that good in her casual Outfit-
    tumblr_o50dgmUHnO1t2l5yfo1_500.gif

    Lets be honest Iris hasn't made a Cameo appearance (well not that I know of) and she probably won't and that would mean Pokémon is done with Cameo appearances so if things are at its best we will not be seeing Serena again
     
    611
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  • I'm gonna be honest I really don't care
    I know a lot of you are like "OMG why did they change Serena's look to that, That looks Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Ugly" or "Ugh she looks strange now" and stuff like that.

    But its been done and Pokémon will not change it so
    That doesn't stop people from discussing whether or not they like Serena as a character. Traditionally, Pokémon have intended their actions to please some fans or other, especially with declining ratings, so the suggestion of indifference on their part to reactions is misleading, and obviously fans can evaluate a series and aspects of it. Presumably people shouldn't review, praise or dislike episodes from now on either? That would cause more problems for them than it would solve.

    Also , I hope she lose her desperation for Ash.
    I know that She loves Ash but that doesn't mean she has to act desperate for Ash.
    She could always act like May and be desperate for everyone.

    To be fair, the current sub-plot there seems to mostly be that Ash is into blue-haired girls and Serena is unable to overcome this to make him acknowledge that she might be likeable in any way, not having blue hair like Valerie or Miette, so honestly how much Serena's desperation or otherwise would affect the plot by this point might be uncertain, compared to blue hair dye.
     

    Azu

    Don't touch my milk.
    127
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  • Truth been told. I was greatly disappointed when they cut her hair off (which reminded me way too much of Sakura Haruno btw, the new "me" new hair cut kind of thing) but as the series progressed I totally fell in love with her new hair style. It just makes her so adorable.
     
    2,581
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    • Seen Nov 13, 2019
    Its not that Long hair Serena was the Best because she still got outclass by Dawn and May.
    In fact , Her hair didn't feel real at all ! They look like a wig due to Serena's huge Side-tail.
    However , Her short hair wasn't any improvement .
    In fact , Her ridiculous New Outfit make her new design worst ! I mean , Do you seen any real children wearing something like that ? That entire Outfit is unrealistic.
    At least , Long Hair Serena look cute in her casual outfit But Short hair Serena need her performer outfit to look cute.
    Plus , Her short hair seem Messy ! I can not see the actual shape of Serena short haircut.
    The main reason I like Serena's third "Dori Dori" design because it make her hair look Real.
     
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  • Something interesting regarding this topic was that last week's episode marked the new design being present for more episodes than her original design. I never believed it would last this long but she's definitely come a long way.
     
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