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Social Groups..

Poll? No Poll is necessary.

And tell me it didn't seriously cross anybody's mind to get rid of the club forums? Ridiculous and selfish. Did it happen to cross your mind that it will result in a mod being unemployed?

Nothing needs to be removed. The social groups provide occasional conveniences, even though it won't be major if they are removed. Still they are not causing any harm like the Rep system ages ago, so there is no advantages in removing them.
 
Well, I'm not gonna argue with you, but the problem is... what if a group gets created that is spammy or something? I'm sure the admins wouldn't want to be bothered to having to remove every single spammy looking groups or anything. And since there is no approval system made for the Admins on the Social Groups, they cannot be able to just approve the Groups. They do go live immediately as soon as they're made, like Lightning said. And... they cannot be able to use the "trim" function on Social Groups, I really don't get why Jelsoft wouldn't create this, I do hope maybe in a future update... they might include something like this. If the staff or even Steve cannot find a plugin that will be able to do that sort of thing, then they'll have to remove the Social Groups.

But hey, before Lightning's post came in, I only thought of the poll. But once I saw Lightning's post... I realized there was no use for a poll, but I just didn't feel like editing my old post again anyways. And I do agree with you about not removing the forum, you're right... the moderator of that forum would lose their job for that forum. And besides that... I'm sure there's alot of posts in that forum that we don't wanna lose.
 
It's a funny thing the staff don't implement various things as unnecessary, but we have these social groups.

It's a funny thing when members pretend to know how the staff work, but then we have posts like this. Social Groups were just... kind of on a VB upgrade one time, and I think Steve wanted to try them out. We just haven't really addressed them much since. It wasn't like we all sat around and went "is this a good idea? HELL YES!", but instead it was just kind of tagged on and the idea never took off.

It sounded good on paper, and ended up not working. Which is different then something sounding useless on paper and actually being useless.

That said, I've never had a problem with removing them. I've always seen them as a waste of space.
 
I...actually wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having a community vote of whether to remove Social Groups or not.

Social Groups, whether they take up a large amount of space or even a little, are kind of dead weight to me. It's not the most popular feature of the forum, and I wouldn't miss them if they were to be removed. As said above, it's a good idea on paper, but actually put into play, it's kind of just there with little importance.

I do know that some users take social groups as a way of planning for their actual club threads, but I think a planning sub-forum (like in the Roleplaying section) would be sufficient enough, if not, better; keep in mind this is just a thought. I wouldn't agree with removing Clubs over Social Groups though. The club forums are far more popular and actually would be missed. Plus, it puts Midori Chi out of position which isn't fair.
 
It's a funny thing when members pretend to know how the staff work, but then we have posts like this. Social Groups were just... kind of on a VB upgrade one time, and I think Steve wanted to try them out. We just haven't really addressed them much since. It wasn't like we all sat around and went "is this a good idea? HELL YES!", but instead it was just kind of tagged on and the idea never took off.

It sounded good on paper, and ended up not working. Which is different then something sounding useless on paper and actually being useless.
You've lost me there... I wasn't insinuating anything, if that's even what you thought? The higher staff here simply aren't very clear about how they work (perhaps rightly so), so people coming along and pointing out things they observed to be inconsistent shouldn't be surprising... I at least, do it to goad an explanation if anything. Thanks anyway, I guess, for a bit of insight.
 
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However, they're a lot more efficient in terms of discussion and whatnot than clubs.
In a club, you have one discussion going at a time.
In a Social Group, such is not so.

They're far more efficient. It's just a matter of moderation rights being re-extended to moderators, and attention actually given to them. :/
 
I...actually wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having a community vote of whether to remove Social Groups or not.

Social Groups, whether they take up a large amount of space or even a little, are kind of dead weight to me. It's not the most popular feature of the forum, and I wouldn't miss them if they were to be removed. As said above, it's a good idea on paper, but actually put into play, it's kind of just there with little importance.

I do know that some users take social groups as a way of planning for their actual club threads, but I think a planning sub-forum (like in the Roleplaying section) would be sufficient enough, if not, better; keep in mind this is just a thought. I wouldn't agree with removing Clubs over Social Groups though. The club forums are far more popular and actually would be missed. Plus, it puts Midori Chi out of position which isn't fair.
Yeah... after I saw Lightning's post, I realized that a poll wasn't nessisary. But then when I saw AdvancedK47's post... I was shocked over the fact that it would cause a moderator of that forum to get demoted... oh my gosh... I didn't realize that my good friend Midori Chi was a moderator of that forum, gosh... it would be a nightmare to see my friend get stripped of moderatorship unfairly. ;-;
And I do realize now that it would remove a moderator from a forum if a forum was to be removed and in which would be sad to see something like that happen. And like I said... it would be awful to lose all those good old threads that have existed from ages ago. And the Clubs forum have been around for quite a long time, we'd never want to lose them. D:
However, they're a lot more efficient in terms of discussion and whatnot than clubs.
In a club, you have one discussion going at a time.
In a Social Group, such is not so.

They're far more efficient. It's just a matter of moderation rights being re-extended to moderators, and attention actually given to them. :/

Well... you do have a point about Social Groups being made... however... I know there is a ROM Hacking Social Group, I wonder if that serves a purpose to the Social Groups? Or would it actually fit in the Clubs forum perfectly?
 
Poll? No Poll is necessary.

And tell me it didn't seriously cross anybody's mind to get rid of the club forums? Ridiculous and selfish. Did it happen to cross your mind that it will result in a mod being unemployed?

Nothing needs to be removed. The social groups provide occasional conveniences, even though it won't be major if they are removed. Still they are not causing any harm like the Rep system ages ago, so there is no advantages in removing them.
Technically, every decision made for any type of change in the community is made on a majority vote poll structure. Eventually, something tells me that there will be a poll about continuing social groups or removing them all together. But I agree 100% with not removing the fanclubs forums, considering Midori Chi does a very good job with keeping them clean, approving them, unapproving the ones she feels don't meet the requirements outlined and making sure they are orderly. I would never agree to putting her out of the job she's been in for, what? Five or so years now? That's ridiculous to me, and completely out of the options I'd like to see brought up to the table. I also agree that there's no harm in keeping them, despite them not being active. Still, it really wouldn't bother me for them to be removed for the same reason. But what Erik said in the post above is something that would make me somewhat hesitant on agreeing to nuke them.

But hey, before Lightning's post came in, I only thought of the poll. But once I saw Lightning's post... I realized there was no use for a poll, but I just didn't feel like editing my old post again anyways. And I do agree with you about not removing the forum, you're right... the moderator of that forum would lose their job for that forum. And besides that... I'm sure there's alot of posts in that forum that we don't wanna lose.
As far as social groups are concerned, Lightning posting doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a need for a poll. You seem to be under the impression that this forum is run entirely on one person's opinion and that is certainly not the case. "Eventually, something tells me that there will be a poll about continuing social groups or removing them all together." I do think you should consider holding your tongue before you say something like that, though, since you don't seem to really know how decisions and things are done. Not trying to scold you, but that was a highly ignorant statement.

I...actually wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having a community vote of whether to remove Social Groups or not.
Quoting this because I wouldn't be opposed to having the entire community deciding if they should stay. Ten bucks says most of the people who come to it don't even know what social groups are.

You've lost me there... I wasn't insinuating anything, if that's even what you thought? The higher staff here simply aren't very clear about how they work (perhaps rightly so), so people coming along and pointing out things they observed to be inconsistent shouldn't be surprising... I at least, do it to goad an explanation if anything. Thanks anyway, I guess, for a bit of insight.
I've always understood how higher staff worked, even when I wasn't on the staff at all. Simply put, an idea or problem gets posted, discussed, and ultimately voted on. The final decision, in any case, is the decision that has majority vote in HQ. Currently, that means that 6 out of the 11 higher staff members have agreed on something. To make sure things aren't moving too fast, a time limit of 48 hours (much like any big thing that happens, like taking a DLoA and leaving your position on the staff) passes and the majority vote is put into action. If it reaches 3/4ths of the higher staff vote, the 48 hour limit is null and void.
 
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I've always understood how higher staff worked, even when I wasn't on the staff at all. Simply put, an idea or problem gets posted, discussed, and ultimately voted on. The final decision, in any case, is the decision that has majority vote in HQ. Currently, that means that 6 out of the 11 higher staff members have agreed on something. To make sure things aren't moving too fast, a time limit of 48 hours (much like any big thing that happens, like taking a DLoA and leaving your position on the staff) passes and the majority vote is put into action. If it reaches 3/4ths of the higher staff vote, the 48 hour limit is null and void.
I believe that was about how the staff logically work, and not how they technically come to their conclusions. I've lurked here for years, and it has never seemed completely consistent. Always seemed like there was some form a disconnect between the highest staff and the will of the user base.
 
Reading Nick's post has gotten me quite hesitant to this. In fact, I was hesitant from the start. To be honest, I would trust the higher staff's decision on the matter than the community as a whole. Like Nick as stated, most of the people who would probably vote won't even know what social groups are(let alone the purpose of the thread, or anything. How much do you want to bet someone who's joined yesterday with one post would vote?). It would be a bothering thought to rely the fate of the social groups on a community vote. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but it's just...an unreliable method.
Yes, higher staff can vote whether or not to remove social groups with reason, but just by looking back at how social groups are viewed by the higher staff, I can pretty much predict it'll be removed by a majority's vote. Which is why I wouldn't be opposed to having the community as a whole vote for it rather than higher staff. Truth be told, not many higher staff take use of the social groups; so for us, it's not needed. Giving the chance for the community as a whole to voice their opinion would be more more effective in my opinion - more so for those who actually do use them.

The role and purpose of social groups can easily be explained in the first post of the poll. So, for those who are new or don't even know what social groups are, can at least get an idea of its purpose. I actually have some trust in the community members and would like to have their voices heard when the chance rises. I mean it is they who shape the forum, not only the staff. Plus, with social groups not being the biggest issue on the forum, I don't mind having a community-wide vote.
 
Hm...I guess I can understand what you're saying here. What you're trying to say is that, it's not really the h-staff's thing because they hardly make use of it; rather, it's the members since we're the ones that actually make use of it. I guess I can agree with your point there, but to a certain extent. .___. I just feel that, if the members do agree on keeping it there, it'll just be...pointless? I hope not to cause offense by this, but it's just in my opinion, it's just cluttering up the forum(I know, other people would probably see this differently, but that's just me.) That's just my biggest worry and concern. PC would look much cleaner without the whole social groups thing. >>
That's fair enough.

...and even if we had a vote, and it is decided that social groups should stay, then it'll be no different than having it now. Therefore, I don't exactly see that as a problem, but that's just me. I agree that PC can do without it (that said, it doesn't bother me if it stays or is removed), but as Audy stated, it rarely puts any harm to the server, so whether it remains or is removed, it will make no change other than it actually existing on the forums or not.
 
Ten bucks says most of the people who come to it don't even know what social groups are.
That's ten bucks saying most of the people haven't read the rules.... reasonable enough, really.


Social groups may be more efficient, but they simply don't get enough attention because we still don't have a need for them.

Actually, now further thinking about this, most of the decisions here go on basis of need. For new forums, it's because the threads of that topic grew popular and there arose a need for it, like the LP forum. For VMs, there was a need for more convenient communication. For removing rep, the admins had a need for a freaking break XD


But what exact needs do we have that would require the SGs? Nothing really. The Groups Forums already satisfy our basic need of common interest chats. SGs may be more efficient, but we already have the Groups and our needs are not complex enough to use the SGs.

Also, it'd be like having a right hand mouse you've been using for a long time and suddenly you have a left hand mouse with a freakload of buttons that makes life so much easier. Problem is you are right handed. Unless your right mouse disappears, you won't be willing to use that sophisticated left mouse. Our Groups are the right mouse and SGs are the left mouse. But as should be obvious from last page, we cannot get rid of groups.


We don't need SGs. I'm sure we all know that. The most reasonable thing would be to prune it all.
 
...There's only 15 pages of groups (showing 10 per page) within the rules out of 90, and that's not seeing if there are any duplicate groups out there. Just ones that are active within a month from today.
 
Hm... now that I think about it... it wouldn't be a bad idea for having a vote to either remove the Social Groups or keep them. Because I assume the ROM Hacking social group might serve a purpose. And I was just wondering to myself... if Social Groups really did get removed, would the ROM Hacking group fit in Pokémon Groups or Other Clubs? :\
 
Hm... now that I think about it... it wouldn't be a bad idea for having a vote to either remove the Social Groups or keep them. Because I assume the ROM Hacking social group might serve a purpose. And I was just wondering to myself... if Social Groups really did get removed, would the ROM Hacking group fit in Pokémon Groups or Other Clubs? :\
There are roughly 810 social groups. I'm in the process of pruning them now. And I'm about to just give up on it now, since it's making me hate them more and more and becoming very frustrating...

The decision of keeping them or getting rid of them does not rest in the hands of a single group that already has a dedicated forum for discussion. Quite frankly, after reading that post, I'm not so sure on opening the decision up for community-wide voting if the time ever comes to that.
 
Quite frankly, after reading that post, I'm not so sure on opening the decision up for community-wide voting if the time ever comes to that.
Unfortunately not all of the community will make educated or logical votes. Wouldn't it be best to open it up and let the user base vote, and then let the staff keep that in mind and then draw their own conclusion? We've already noted the staff themselves don't use the social groups. Obviously if the decision went opposite of the community's view, there might be some hurt feelings and such, but keeping the user base directly involved with decisions that affect them is important, too, right?
 
Unfortunately not all of the community will make educated or logical votes. Wouldn't it be best to open it up and let the user base vote, and then let the staff keep that in mind and then draw their own conclusion? We've already noted the staff themselves don't use the social groups. Obviously if the decision went opposite of the community's view, there might be some hurt feelings and such, but keeping the user base directly involved with decisions that affect them is important, too, right?
I was actually thinking about that right after I posted that last post. But since not all of the community will make a logical vote, that will sway the decision a great deal considering the fact that a good portion of our members are children, naive, and rather newbish to say the least. They're also highly impressionable, so the vote would have to be private and the reasonings would have to be moderated due to that.

The ones who are responsible and would make the decision that isn't based on personal standards (rather than the wellbeing of the community) or anything of the sort is really only about 1/4th of the community, unfortunately. I do agree that keeping the user base involved with decisions is important, but other members on the staff may disagree. The problem is trusting the user base to make logical decisions without ignorance or the wellbeing of the forum will suffer. A lot of the members here have clashing priorities than what should be one, as displayed here.
 
I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.
I haven't really used the Social Groups and I don't think I ever will.

I would be for them getting removed, since they MUST be taking up space on the server...
 
....They're also highly impressionable, so the vote would have to be private and the reasonings would have to be moderated due to that.

....I do agree that keeping the user base involved with decisions is important, but other members on the staff may disagree. The problem is trusting the user base to make logical decisions without ignorance or the wellbeing of the forum will suffer. A lot of the members here have clashing priorities than what should be one, as displayed here.
Definitely would need to be private, the idea of it being open is quite scary. Would it be possible to make it a locked thread and still be able to poll, or no? I have no experience with vB.

I'd hope none of the staff thinks the user base should't be involved with decisions. D: Trusting the community as a whole is iffy, which is why I think it should be a poll, but it shouldn't be the final decision. Just to be taken into account when the staff votes, with a grain (or three) of salt.
 
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