Suicide & Redemption (OU RMT)

[Archer]

Suicide & Redemption

Introduction

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It's been a while, huh? This team is rather old (about 4-6 months), but I've had reasonable success when I play on occasion. Actually, I don't think I've lost in the last 10 battles, at least. The rest, I don't really remember. The team itself works by each member holding its own, generally with a lesser used set. This means that it remains relatively solid most of the time, but that comes at the cost of synergy. As you can see, Substitute is quite common on this team, as it lets me stay in and attempt the aforementioned strategy of each enemy holding its own, rather than switching the instant a check or counter comes in. Most of the team is quite bulky, except for Lucario. To be honest, the team came together as a amalgamation of things I wanted to use, so not a lot of formal planning has gone into its production. Any suggestions would be nice. Thanks.

Overview

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In Detail

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Fight Fire With Fire
Heatran@ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Notes: Lead Tran is supposed to beat most of the opposing leads. Shuca Berry > Lum because I would rather it for later, even if it's asleep I can still absorb hits. Especially Fire. Taunt was chosen to give it more use later on. I don't want it to become an hero earlier on and HP Grass is only good for Swampert, IMO.

Astronomy
Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spd
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Note: I'm not sure whether to run CM or just plain Life Orb Latias, but I need it nonetheless for my massive Infernape weak. Aside from that, it gives me something that's naturally fast, which is quite an asset for this team, considering how slow it is. This is more of a opening sweeper to make a little mess and provide a check for what I need to. In that respect I may be better with *the plain Life Orb set.

Hero Of The Day
Scizor@ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 SDef
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Notes: Standard Scizor is standard. This helps me revenge several threats as well as scout a little for Lucario. It contributes to the teams awesome set of resistances

Trapped Under Ice
Salamence@ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Naive Nature (+Spd, - SDef)
EVs: 16 Atk/240 SAtk/252 Spd
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Notes: To be perfectly honest, I don't like New MixMence, but it fits. I would have gone old if Latias wasn't already hitting like a truck from the special side. Fire Blast > Flamethrower because I just want teh powa. There's not much else to say.

Harvester Of Sorrow
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Extremespeed

Notes: Lucario is the base sweeper of the team. After an SD, it takes out entire teams with Extremespeed alone. I usually bring this in late-game, when everything has been worn down. I get one SD and that's enough to take everything remaining down. I usually wait for Scizor to scout its counters first. This is the core of the team and I'd definitely like to keep it. Stone Edge hits Gyara switch-ins which are rather common.

Ride The Lightning
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat

I went with Scarf Rotom, as it allows me revenge a few threats that otherwise cause problems. Besides, the other set just wasn't working for me. I'm tossing up between Wash and Heat, because Wash deters TTar and Heatran from switching in, but Overheat is better for taking out Scizor.

Okay, that's it. The team's really slow, which is something I need to address, but it seems to work pretty well. There are no Choice Users, which means I rarely have to switch. Sorry for the short descriptions, I'm really not sure what else can be said. I'm open to suggestions, so shoot.

 

[Zaradon]

Yay for Metallica! I think T-Bolt >> HP-fight on Rotom cuz you already got 2 fight abusers + Rotom gets STAB on t-Bolt.
Gl with the team ^^.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Generally you defenses are really flimsy to say the least.

LO Gyarados OHKO's Rotom without def evs and then like your whole team.

Infernape also rips you a new one and nothing here can deal with Latias.

Id honestly scarf Rotom so you can at least handle Gyarados and ape better. Hydro Pump/S-Ball/T-Bolt/Trick

As for Latias (Rotom doesnt beat CM Version even with S-Ball), maybe try something like Bronzong >> Swampert, who conveniently covers more or less the same threats as Swampert (and also DD Mence). Lum Zong still works awesome and accomplished what you are trying to do with swampert except better because he can take the sleep and then sleep them right back. Hypnosis/SR/EQ or Boom/Gyro @lum

However this would leave you a little more vunerable to Heatran, however you should be able to beat that with prediction tbh (your own Heatran + revenge/Rotom). I mean you can try something like Latias > Celebi for tran if it becomes too much of an issue, who also covers Ape well too. Latias + lucario also resist everything in the game together so have good synergy.

Ill come back if i spot more. Just soe ideas here though.

 

[Archer]

Thanks D_A, I've been looking for a new lead.

So, I'll put LeadZong over Swampert and Scarf on Rotom. I could always put ScarfGar > Rotom...

I'm not that keen to use Latias, but it seems like a decent alternative to Celebi. Life Orb or CM set?

 

[Malicious Metang]

This team is tremendously weak to Dragon Dance Gyarados, Mixed Infernape (or any Infernape for that matter), Gengar, Latias, Jolteon, etc...Basically, anything fast that hits hard is going to sweep you, and while your team can deal with more defensive minded styles, heavy offense will tear you to pieces within minutes, let's not forget the possibility of Dual Screens as well as how easy it is to set-up on Swampert. The first way to imrpove this weakness is add Choice Scarf Rotom, whichever version, over your current SubCB set. EVs can be tailored whichever way you feel necessary, but I use max Spe / max SpA just to hit things harder. I would also like to see you change Heatran into something that can actually go on the offensive, like a Life Orb Heatran with Fire Blast / Earth Power / Dragon Pulse / Explosion. Do you really need to Toxic Water-types with Celebi waiting in the wings? Lum Berry is also terrible on Swampert, you not only lose valuable Leftovers recovery, but the most common sleepers (Smeargle and Roserade) are still guaranteed to beat you 1 vs. 1, the former being able to easily OHKO you. It's a waste of an item to be frank. I would also reccomend Thunder Wave > Psychic on Celebi, as you currently have a very, very slow team, even with Rotom-A being Scarfed. Tinkerbell is a great way to remain offensive while hitting things surprisingly hard, use it.

I really don't understand the "synergy" behind this team. A DD LO Outrage from Salamence OHKOs everything on this team with rocks down, and you have literally no defensve against it. I would reccomend a Choice Band Scizor over Machamp, though you seem quite attatched to it. By using Leftovers on Pert, you at least get a more reliable Mence check, so do it. So uh, yeah, good luck with the team.

 

[Tori]

at first, i thought those were nicknames but then i realized it was too long!
anyways, its a good team, aside from the fact that you'll need a bit more defences. lol
hooray metallica!

 

[Ooka]

That's one hell of a rate man.
Remember Archer, more defences FTW!

Yours is just as good.

Well, like I said before, Latias pretty much ruins you (Along with the stuff people have mentioned before). With all the problems others have suggested, I'd agree with adding Latias over Celebi, it helps a lot more, beats Ape, and balances your team out. And a scarf on Rotom wouldn't hurt either. ;)

 

[Archer]

I might put this in when I get around to it. Over Celebi, that would be.

Astronomy
Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spd
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Recover

I'm just not sure whether it's that much better. Maybe I should go with a more defensive set? IE: Thunder Wave, etc. Otherwise, I need to find a way of dealing with Infernape.

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

From the title with scitto '' Suicide '' I believed pits instead a very offensive team a lot of bulky it seems me, for the Rotom I slant for Rotom Heat.

 

[Archer]

From the title with scitto '' Suicide '' I believed pits instead a very offensive team a lot of bulky it seems me, for the Rotom I slant for Rotom Heat.

Oh, no. That was just the name of a song.

Yeah, Rotom-H sounds like the better idea.

Okay, I've updated the main post with Latias and a few small alterations. Keep rating, guys. :D

 

[Malicious Metang]

You get my 100th post because you're special...well not really, but let's just say you are so it makes this post more enjoyable =P

The changes of the team have definately removed any Gyarados or Infernape weakness, however, as of now, Life Orb Gengar can murder you assuming it outspeeds Latias. Rotom-h is the most obvious Choice Scarf user in the game, and extremely easy to Pursuit or set-up on once locked into Shadow Ball. Let's not forget, by Tricking the Scarf away, you give Gengar even more free reign on this team, as your only means of defense is now totally gone. One way to curb this issue is to add a Choice Band Scizor over your Machamp. There are quite a few pros to this switch...Don't believe me? Let's see what adding Scizor over Machamp does for this team:

*Gengar is now countered
*Salamence is now checked
*Cresselia, Celebi, etc...are now unable to wall your team

Scizor has excellent synergy with Lucario in general, Pursuiting Gengars who can end a Lucario sweep, U-turn and weaken walls like Hippowdon who can live a +2 LO Close Combat, OHKO Celebi and 2HKO Cresselia who can live whatever you throw at them, and even kill off Salamence, who can live a +2 Extremespeed after Stealth Rock factoring in Intimidate. Please, test this bad boy out for yourself:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant (+ Atk, - SpA)
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
~U-turn
~Bullet Punch
~Superpower
~Pursuit

With Scizor, the need for Bronzong is quite unecessary, so it's obvious you'd want to be scrapping it. Honestly, Bronzong loses to a ton of common leads, cannot prevent Stealth Rock from getting up, and is total bait for the new Smeargle / Roserade (though with my changes, you'll be completely invulnerable to Toxic Spikes). For this reason, I suggest you remove Bronzong, and add a Lead Heatran in its place, removing your current SubToxic Tran set. I feel this change would benefit your team because, let's be honest, what is SubToxic Tran doing? The main reasons to use it are to poison bulky Waters, beat Blissey 1 vs. 1 (not even that reliable at doing it), and poison enemy Tyranitar and Salamence. All of these uses are not important for this team, but getting rocks up definately overshadows all of these, without a doubt. Use Lead Tran over Bronzong:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry / Lum Berry
Timid (+ Spe, - Atk) / Naive (+ Spe, - SDef)
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Stealth Rock
~Earth Power
~Taunt / Hidden Power Grass / Explosion

He beats or at least stops most leads 1 vs. 1. The Shuca Berry is there to take Earthquakes from the likes of Swampert, Metagross, enemy Heatran's Earth Powers, etc...Lum Berry could come in use if you don't use Taunt, to stop Smeargle from setting up (again, Roserade poses absolutely not threat to this team with Toxic Spikes) and also from Scarf Breloom (to OHKO with Fire Blast the next turn). This guy is generally awesome and has served my team extraordinarily well.

Now, you have one slot left open, and from your new and improved lineup (Heatran / Latias / Scizor / Lucario / Rotom-h), it's pretty obvious you have a gaping weakness to Dragon Dance Gyarados once Rotom-h is Pursuited. One way to alleviate this is to add Stone Edge on Lucario, as once they Pursuit Rotom-h, you can go to Lucario, set-up, and when they bring in Gyarados, OHKO it with Stone Edge. With Scizor Pursuiting Ghosts and U-turn Celebi and Cresselia, Crunch's value is quite low, whereas Stone Edge for Gyarados, Zapdos, and even Salamence is an excellent addition. I would also use the Calm Minder over the Life Orber on Latias, to beat Suicune 1 vs. 1 as Cune causes you quite a bit of problems, outpacing most of your team and dealing many KOs after a Calm Mind.

Now that your team is a lot more solid, let's look at what you have trouble beating: Stall and hyper offense. While this is a very troublesome issue, there are tools to beat it. Most well-made Stall teams cannot stop both Scizor and Lucario once they lose their Hippowdon, Gyarados, Skarmory, etc...It may seem foolish to think there is a single Pokemon that handles all of these threats, but there is: MixMence / MixNite! Both of these Pokemon can absolutely destroy Stall teams in the initial stages of a match, as their high powered moves are ridiculous enough to 2HKO walls with the right move. For this team, I highly suggest Salamence, as it is one of the best set-up baits for Lucario, taking out most of what Lucario cannot handle. New or Mixed is up to you, so I'll post both:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash (+ SpA, - SDef)
80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Fire Blast
~Brick Break
~Roost

Slower than your average MixMence, but is packing more survivability. This guy can slowly chip away at enemy Stall teams, as well as Brick Break screens from offensive teams and outrun a good deal of their team members. Definately consider him, or:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Naive (+ Spe, - SDef)
16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Fire Blast / Flamethrower
~Outrage
~Earthquake / Roost

This guy has a lot more initial power than the Old MixMence, at the cost of survivability. While I don't reccomend it, you could go Roost > Earthquake to grant him more longitivity, but only do it if you're a prediction master. Basically, he destroys teams that don't have a Cresselia, and even then, your Scizor will be able to manhandle Cresselia 1 vs. 1 as well as Latias, meaning Mence has a lot more wiggle room. Offense, Stall, Balance, etc...you name it, they have trouble with this guy.

Well, there it is, my 100th post, and you're revised team. Let's take a look, shall we?

*Lead Heatran
*CM LO Latias
*CB Scizor
*Old / New MixMence
*SD Lucario
*Scarf Rotom-h

Good luck

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

I agree with most of what Bedlam said, and in my opinion I just love CM Latias more than any other. Definitely stick with it.

I got here late, did you have Breloom then swapped for Bronzong or is that just an 'I'm considering a switch to Breloom' message?

Dragon Pulse > Toxic > Explosion. Wellll...hm..Explosion is an option. Test with both, see which one provides you with more usefulness.

I'd also like to say I've loved all your teams, Archer, haha. They're quite good.

 

[Archer]

I agree with most of what Bedlam said, and in my opinion I just love CM Latias more than any other. Definitely stick with it.

I got here late, did you have Breloom then swapped for Bronzong or is that just an 'I'm considering a switch to Breloom' message?

Dragon Pulse > Toxic > Explosion. Wellll...hm..Explosion is an option. Test with both, see which one provides you with more usefulness.

I'd also like to say I've loved all your teams, Archer, haha. They're quite good.

Heh, I'm not so sure about all of my teams.

I've made most of the changes that Beldum suggested, and I'm quite happy with the team as it is. I'm going to playtest it tonight and see what I think, but everyone can continue to rate it... Ta.