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Meloetta said:
231774

You make some good points, but I think you underestimate just how much of a voice the UK would have outside of the EU. I highly doubt we'd struggle to make our voice heard. I'm not really interested in what the EU has done for other countries or how it holds together, all I care about is what the UK gets out of staying in it, and whether that should be enough to justify staying in it. I'm still not sure yet what I think of it.
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The US have already said they really aren't interested in free trade treaties with the UK alone, and that the "special relationship" would get put in the closet if the UK left the EU. Which is why Boris called Obama "half-Kenyan" and all.

And obviously, if the UK left the EU, that'd mean leaving the free trade area, because the current EU rules state that countries that want access to it need to accept free circulation of people as well as essentially all EU rules on trade plus pay some money to the EU budget. In other words, if the UK wanted to stay in the common market, the only thing you'd be giving up on is the ability to have a voice in policymaking while keeping all the EU laws anyway, which is asinine. And leaving the common market (and capital movement area) would surely be a problem for an island whose GDP comes from trading and from financial companies, which wouldn't be allowed to act as a central clearing area for Euro movements anymore. Frankfourt would probably be delighted.

At this point, it's a matter of ideology more than anything. Do you believe in the "British Empire that ruled the world" and think the only thing holding it back from becoming a superpower once more -without Polish plumbers- is being tied to the rest of the continent? Vote leave. Do you believe in free trade, free circulation of people -including university graduates and highly-qualified workers-, capitals -the City- and ideas, and a common history and spirit shared with the rest? Vote remain.

And, in case of doubt, remember that the people asking you to vote out are Boris, Putin and Le Pen. Just saying.
 
231777

Very idealistic. Although in reality we're damned if we do and damned if we don't; if we stay we're stuck with the same problems we have now, and if we leave we just get new ones to replace them. It's just a matter of picking the lesser of two evils. Honestly I think it's a moot point, because we will almost certainly remain in the EU. I mean, look at the fuss Scotland made about its referendum, and how that ended.

I hate politics.
 
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Meloetta said:
231777

Very idealistic. Although in reality we're damned if we do and damned if we don't; if we stay we're stuck with the same problems we have now, and if we leave we just get new ones to replace them. It's just a matter of picking the lesser of two evils. Honestly I think it's a moot point, because we will almost certainly remain in the EU. I mean, look at the fuss Scotland made about its referendum, and how that ended.

I hate politics.
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The difference is that, back then, most polls were in favour of "no", and this time there is a tie, so I wouldn't bet on anything for sure. So every vote matters more now.

Also, Trump came out for "leave". I'm expecting Kim-Jong Un to be the next at this rate.
 
Ivysaur said:
The difference is that, back then, most polls were in favour of "no", and this time there is a tie, so I wouldn't bet on anything for sure. So every vote matters more now.
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231779

True enough. That said, I think things will start to shift one way or the other between now and the vote date. Cameron will be making a speech tomorrow and, whilst I typically take things he says with a pinch of salt, I'll watch it, since he's pushing pretty hard for us to stay in. I suppose the Leave camp will have a response to that, and we'll probably get a debate of some sort on TV between the two sometime in the near future.

I've had a lot of home-made crap put through the door these past couple of weeks about it too, and I've binned all of it. I'm amazed it's taken this long for any real information to come through when we've known about it this long, though...it's kind of a big deal. The news hasn't covered it much though.
 
231781

Everyone has an opinion on politics...even if it's a misinformed or incomplete one. Like mine usually is, haha. But then, politics aren't given the same sort of rave hype here that they are in the US, not even around major elections. You get a few debates shown past the watermark, one or two five minute party election broadcasts after the evening news, and a crapton of information printed by extremists shoved through your letterbox.

I mean, we've just had some local elections for a new police commissioner and I didn't see any information about the candidates, at all. The EU referendum is about six weeks away and we're just now getting trickles of information promised to us. It's crazy.
 
231782

No matter how corrupt it may be, in any country, I don't think election drama there could ever compare to the US's.
 
231784

Welcomes, etc :3

This forum - and these threads - are pretty addicting...good ways to pass the time. They remind me of the chat threads I used to post in on an old forum I frequented. xD
 
231787

This is the only one that matters. Oh, and that other one with a weird name.
 
231789

Abandon your transitory pursuits, my son. You are one of us now. Resistance is futile.
:3
 
231792

One who burns the candle at both ends burns their hand and has no candle left.

...or something.
 
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