That dreaded topic: religion

[Gentleman J]

Finally I can link now. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zone
Yes. Would a peace-loving god really allow conflicts such as this to happen?

So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God). All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity. People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

Check this out https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

 

[Allstories]

I don't understand. Why would god want to make individuals with the capacity of wanting to go to hell? What exactly is god's motive here?

Hahaha, even if you do believe in god, you've got to admit that that entire website is utter nonsense and outrageously biased. Blah, blah, blah. We don't know EVERYTHING. So we should base all our beliefs on NOTHING. Brilliant logic.

 

[Amy-chan]

I'm a weird mixed-breed when it comes to religion. Don't ask. o_o;

Religion, such a debatable, contradictory subject... People have argued over it, people have died over it, people have even killed over it. But when it comes down to it...would anyone anybody believes in(Jesus, God, Buddha, etc., etc.) be happy about the fights and wars supposedly staged on their behalf? It seems criminal to try to justify one's violent actions by saying that one was simply acting for the sake of their religion. I hope that someday people of all beliefs will be able to tolerate and live in peace with each other, rather than being at each other's throats just because their creation stories and whatnot disagree.

I don't know, just a thought. Don't shoot me. ._.;

 

[~Ozy~]

I don't understand. Why would god want to make individuals with the capacity of wanting to go to hell? What exactly is god's motive here?

In religious philosophy, not the capacity of wanting to go to hell, but the capacity for concious, free thought and choice. Nor is this a new idea, presented as a contrast to arguements as to the freedom of choice in the world that leads to negative circumstances. Indeed, much of Elizibethan English religious thought focused on similar questions, and the answer was similar. Indeed, the capacity for learning and growth, and of course, the choice that comes with it was the factor that set humanity above the animal kingdom and our one superiority of our race over the perfection of angels.

To say that God cannot have created us as flawed because we would defy His creation is indeed contridictory to Judeo-Christian religious thought, as God already had a perfect creation in Heaven and His angels.

 

[Zelos]

I don't understand. Why would god want to make individuals with the capacity of wanting to go to hell? What exactly is God's motive here?

Hahaha, even if you do believe in God, you've got to admit that that entire website is utter nonsense and outrageously biased. Blah, blah, blah. We don't know EVERYTHING. So we should base all our beliefs on NOTHING. Brilliant logic.

He didn't create people like that, He gave you a choice. You can either embrace Him and go to Heaven or reject him and go to Hell. He doesn't want to be with Him forever if that's not what you want, that's why Hell and and the devil exist.

 

[bna_li]

So what you're saying is that bugs lead happy lives?... OK.........

Yes. Would a peace-loving god really allow conflicts such as this to happen?

God is not peace-loving. You make that assumption. He actually allowed Israel to go to war many times, and made other countries war against Israel when they were forgetting him. He loves justice, and sometimes there must be war for there to be justice.

On a side note...
You could never go to Heaven if God never chose for you to. That's what it means to be elect.
I disagree with people saying that you can make the choice. If God didn't choose for you to go to Heaven, you could never make that choice yourself.

 

[Red530]

Dreams are not related to the afterlife. And by seen the spirits, do you mean seen ghosts?

There is a great difference between spirits and ghosts.

I mean spirits.


Spirits are the dead that visit.
Ghosts are the dead that linger on Earth, and feel the need to complete a mission that was not done when they were living their first part of life.

 

[bna_li]

What you have said sounds like Buddhism. I'm not really sure what it is, but it sounds like what my chinese buddhist friends used to say.

 

[Red530]

They're just my thoughts.

I DO like the Buddhist ideas though.

 

[bna_li]

Can't say the same here. I was raised as a Christian, but I'm becoming bitter.

 

[Red530]

The only problem with Christianity, Catholicism, etc. (esp Catholicism) are the people, that's all.

 

[bna_li]

See, that's where I disagree with you again. You could say that for any religon.

 

[McGraw]

I am athiest. Though I believe it possible that a supernatural power exists, it is highly improbable. I am open minded, but you will not budge me in a science versus religion debate without reliable evidence. There is nothing of substance behind any religion in my opinion and as a whole, they only highlight human inadequacies. We are top of the food chain with nothing to fear, except death. Further, the human mind cannot easily grasp the idea that there may be nothing after death, in the same way we cannot easily understand infinity. It is no surprise to me that all religions teach of an existence after death; we want the comfort of knowing there is something to cling on to, we want to know that our lives are not futile.

With that out of the way, may I suggest an alternative solution to the evil dilemma; that the higher power cannot differentiate between good and evil, because neither exists. In the purest sense, both concepts are an illusion, and dependent on perspective. For good and evil to exist, there needs to be a right and a wrong. What is right and what is wrong? Strip away the social conditioning, and there is only opinion; consensus proves nothing.

Evil is synonymous with selfishness and is nature in its most absolute and empirical terms. It is therefore entirely self justified unless the perpetrator experiences a net loss of satisfaction/status/material. If so, (s)he is merely acting irrationally. In this way, even the most atrocious crimes can be contraversially "justified". For example, one of the Third Reich's major aims was to create more Lebensraum (living space) for Germans; can it not be argued that genocide is an extreme form of competition and natural selection? Comparable in concept to a lioness killing a leopard.

I digress somewhat... but my point remains; if evil does not exist, the supernatural entity cannot have an agenda against it.

 

[Lord Mike]

The only problem with Christianity, Catholicism, etc. (esp Catholicism) are the people, that's all.

You can't let other people get in the way of your belief though.

 

[Zone]

So what you're saying is that bugs lead happy lives?... OK.........


God is not peace-loving. You make that assumption. He actually allowed Israel to go to war many times, and made other countries war against Israel when they were forgetting him. He loves justice, and sometimes there must be war for there to be justice.

On a side note...
You could never go to Heaven if God never chose for you to. That's what it means to be elect.
I disagree with people saying that you can make the choice. If God didn't choose for you to go to Heaven, you could never make that choice yourself.

Why did he make them go into a war instead of getting another messiah or making more miracles? With a war, potential followers of him would be killed. Why would he want his followers to die? And how would a war bring back religion?

 

[McGraw]

There is always the possibility that god has a disturbingly macabre sense of humour. We all know he is pretty narcissistic to have himself worshipped, so I wouldn't put it past him...

(Assuming he exists)

 

[Lord Mike]

I'm still debating whether God is real or not.

 

[ShieldWolf27]

Newsflash!
There is no scientific law that states that an all-knowing, all-powerful being has been here since the beginning of time cannot be possible.

I seen this and had to reply. Just because "science" doesn't ay it doesn't mean its not real. I mean heck they are proven science wrong everyday. Dont even ask. I will say now. They find dinosaurs with spear hole through their skulls. now didn't science say that men weren't around when Dinosaurs were?

 

[Zone]

I seen this and had to reply. Just because "science" doesn't ay it doesn't mean its not real. I mean heck they are proven science wrong everyday. Dont even ask. I will say now. They find dinosaurs with spear hole through their skulls. now didn't science say that men weren't around when Dinosaurs were?

Link to where you heard about the spear holed dinosaur skull.

 

[Kalylia]

Why did he make them go into a war instead of getting another messiah or making more miracles? With a war, potential followers of him would be killed. Why would he want his followers to die? And how would a war bring back religion?

God doesn't want his followers to die. God has never once informed us that we need war to prove ourself to him or any of that. God doesn't want war, nor does he cause it.

As a young child, I was taught that God doesn't "make" anything happen. God shows us the path we should be on, encourages us to follow it, but allows us our own choices. He does not pressure us to the point of total control. We are, in the end, responsible for our own actions and our own destines.

Need an example of how God doesn't want war? Check out Jesus, the Chrisian Messiah. Jesus was thought to be this huge war hero. He was the Messiah, and people believed he was going to lead the people in the ultimate war against their enemies, thus saving the religion.

But that isn't what Jesus was sent to do.

He lived the human life and experienced it as we do. He died to save us from our ultimate enemy, sin. God doesn't want us to go to war to solve our problems. If He wanted that, surely his one and only son would have been the greatest war hero of all time.