The Battle Server

[Abnegation]

The PC Battler Server was a hive of activity on PokéCommunity until the last few months. I'm not entirely sure what was done to allow it to spiral into the current mass of inactivity it has right now but something really messed up.

For a lot of people battling is not a priority, I get that. Less than half a year ago the server had nearly 100 people using it at one time. Now, I haven't seen 10 or more in several weeks. I'll be honest in saying that maintaining a decent amount of activity was a lot of work when I worked on it personally, and the staff there worked extremely hard. However I think they could do with more support on the higher staff side. I also empathize in the fact that those on higher staff may not be interested in battling, but that should not be an issue. If you're a Super Moderator or Administrator your duty is to the forum as a whole (I don't need to tell you that, naturally) so I do not think it's an excuse to let something that was hugely popular and a real asset to the forum simply turn around and die.

In the same vein that there's a lot of work gone into the social media staff group lately, I think that higher staff should do their best to be attentive to other pillars of PC too. If you feel the lack of the activity is the fault of the Battle Server Staff then why not step in and see what's happening? Reach out and see what the cause of this is.

I respect the BSS group a lot, and they've done a lot of hard work over the years but this is a pillar and community of PC that is just been thrown aside and I think it's a real shame. Especially when it gained so much traction at the beginning of this year. I understand that there will be reasons and excuses as to why this happened, but neither of those change my mind that there should be a consistent endeavor to keep large, active, features of PC remaining healthy.

Every "we intend to XYZ to improve activity there, AFTER we do ABC first" response honestly begins to feel like a cop-out for lack of assertion. Too many of these things get put off for a "revamp", but inaction causes more damage to these assets of the community than anything. People use this forum every day and expect certain things to work, and be active now and not just some day. If it's not needed, remove it. If it should be more active or integral to the forum, do something about it.

 

[Klippy]

I'm not really sure what you think the higher staff can do to better the activity on the server that the BSS aren't already attempting to do. There are some of higher staff team members that are involved with the BSS (shenanigans, Stormbringer), but the BSS is largely autonomous in how they operate and they've done an excellent job of managing and handling what goes on on it with the supervision of those two higher staffers, plus others who sporadically get involved/have been involved. But they're the BSS for a reason. They're the ones with the skill, interest, and ability to manage the Battle Server . It's why they're so trusted with it. The h-staff supports them in that regard and we're always happy to assist if they want it, but they're also independently strong enough of a group to discuss ideas among themselves and bring their ideas to h-staff if they need subforums added, things changed, etc.

The BSS can feel free to talk about it more, since they're the ones discussing activity and developing interesting things to get people involved already, but Archy is also right in saying that the staff can only do so much. If the members aren't showing up, there's nobody to blame - especially when the BSS are doing their best and trying what they can. There's also a load of summer activities and school starting that attribute to the slowdown of all aspects of the forum.

It's a bit presumptuous to assume anyone is throwing it aside though, but the BSS can share what they've got going on or their thoughts on the slow activity. I know wolf had some good points in the discussion on it, as did others.

I'm sure the BSS would appreciate some suggestions and thoughts on how to improve activity though, since you posted this.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

It's definitely in a slump right now, which is consistent with previous years around this time. Summer generally is the slowest time for the battle server and it normally picks up activity shortly after it ends. Though I will say that it has taken a much larger hit than normal. I cannot speak for BSS as a whole but for the most part we have all been doing the best we can to promote activity. We have also started signups for the second season of PCL which in theory should bring activity up once it resumes. There is also an upcoming Commday on the 5th of September which hopefully brings some new faces around. Aside from those big activities and other various tournaments that we have going on, there isn't much else that we can do. We've been maintaining a healthy and inviting chat but that hasn't seemed to work either. The interest simply isn't there. Ideally if we had our own client we could create out own meta, add custom pokemon, etc and it would be a lot more appealing to much more than just a small portion of the battling community. I'd really like to hear more feedback from battle server regulars or maybe even former regulars as to why you don't visit anymore.

 

[Abnegation]

@Klippy
shenanigans stepped out of the server a long time ago, and I haven't seen Stormbringer on the server in a while so I was not aware they were still involved. However there's an oxymoron in your statement, yes the BSS have worked hard, but some decisions have led the server into a state of large inactivity. There's plenty of aid they could do with, honestly. Higher staff being more involved and aware of what makes the server tick would really help. Your reply further convinces me that there's not much communication between the BSS and the higher staff. There's plenty you can still do to enable the BSS more, actually (as I've just seen Chase post).

For one thing, the server itself is not autonomous as it relies on Rukario to restart the server so that the changes the Administrators of the Battle Server wish to make can actually take place. A request was put in a long time ago for this to be looked into, as it's rather inefficient to have to go through Steve each and every time those who run the server wish to fix, add, or change something. So for one, the higher staff could look into how to actually make it a more fluid development process. I understand that you feel the BSS are trusted with the server and they should, but support from higher staff is appreciated. It's not only important for the leaders of the forum to get involved in aspects outside of their niche, but it's morale building for the smaller teams (such as BSS) so that they can see that communication flows both ways. There's honestly a disconnect, while we seen higher staff involved before, it doesn't seem that way any longer. It may be a coincidence that the server has gone downhill in terms of activity, but I think it's naive to say that higher-staff presence and interest doesn't actually push things along quicker and help make lines of communication more fluent. I've seen it first hand, higher staff interest in the battle server brings more discussions on how to improve it to HQ, which in turn helps the BSS move things along efficiently. So, while they are a self-sufficient userbase yes, they could still use the backing and support of higher staff if possible. I'm not saying it's necessary, but I do believe it would help. I don't agree that the whole thing is "autonomous".

With that in mind, I didn't create this thread to argue the semantics of staff demographics, I honestly wanted to bring something to light here. Nor am I accusing anyone of "throwing it aside", once again I'm merely offering feedback. Without running the risk of seeming conceited, I don't think I have the fortitude to offer a 12 step program on how to improve activity in the server. With all due respect, that's primarily the staff's domain. A quick few suggestions though could be that 1) User rooms be brought back as they never truly posed any problems so long as they were regulated 2) Actually host forum-wide events on the server, this year's VGC was a perfect chance to get people onto the server and talk about the fun of battling and discuss the championships, yet nothing was done 3) Promote the battle server more on your social media sites/announcements/notices and so on, and show that you don't even need to care about competitive battling to have fun battling or chatting on the server itself 4) Put aside the notion that the BSS take care of everything and that higher-staff don't need to do much more than take their requests, they're people like anyone else and appreciate guidance and support from the higher ups when possible.

There's a myriad more of suggestions people will likely have floating about in their heads, I'm sure. But I don't think it's worth taking a defeatist attitude either. I don't think it's entirely fair to pass off the lost popularity of the server as a case of people going back to school, I'll point out that some of our biggest numbers found in the server was when people in school logged onto Showdown during boring classes or lunch time. I don't think it's fair to say that people don't have the interest, as it was never lost. Competitive battling and real time chatting are guaranteed to be popular in Pokémon. It's not quite the case whereby I'm suggesting that higher staff need to "take over", I simply think it would do wonders for morale and awareness of the server if some of you were to get more involved, or take an interest in the betterment of the server. It doesn't require battling interest or knowledge. There's a lot of little things that can be done to help.

The server was much more popular than it is, and has a lot of capacity to be even more so. It'll require some elbow grease, yes. I'm pointing out that the server could be improved, I'm not accusing anyone of anything so don't worry. It's a nice place to hang out, a great place to battle, and was up until recently a hive of activity. Maybe not a massive hive, but it's sad to see that activity drop when it had so much potential. The proof of that potential was shown this year, I think it can still be harnessed one way or the other and I think that awareness is the first step in improving development and success of the feature.

#HowManyTimesCanISayServerInOnePost

 

[Klippy]

That's the type of stuff you should've included in your OP (actual suggestions/issues, that is to say).

I had no idea about the resetting thing, so I'll look into that for the BSS and see if there's anything that can be done.

As to the social media stuff, I can also help with that where I can. This thread is available to call attention to specific things members want to promote (events on the BSS, etc.), but I can work with the BSS to get stuff going in conjunction with the social media team to try and promote anything they want to get started.

EDIT: I raised a thread in the h-staff forum about your last post and especially the resetting/changes thing. If someone has a solution to that, I'll post it here.

 

[Abnegation]

That's the type of stuff you should've included in your OP (actual suggestions/issues, that is to say).

That's like calling tech support with a problem you have, and them asking you how you're going to fix it though. I didn't initially have any suggestions, just thought to bring the issue to light.

I had no idea about the resetting thing, so I'll look into that for the BSS and see if there's anything that can be done.

EDIT: I raised a thread in the h-staff forum about your last post and especially the resetting/changes thing. If someone has a solution to that, I'll post it here.

Appreciated on bringing it up with staff. My suggestion to the highers here is to get the server onto PC, and stop hosting it through an external client. Drop the "psim", give the BSS Administrators more power to update the server themselves, and integrate it with PC better so that it doesn't just feel shoehorned in. Avoid making the "PC 2.0" excuse as it can be done now without an extreme amount of effort and isn't necessarily a "forum software" upgrade. Once it's set up server staff will have a better hold of what they can and cannot do, they can create their own meta-games and make the server feel more like it's tailored for the forum instead of just being an external extension.

 

[Her]

#outsidercomment

i've seen a few posts from weenie hut server ex-regulars who have complained about the social atmosphere of the place being the reason why they left or don't visit so often anymore, citing some dispute or another
and it seemed like it had been a long-running problem as well?
honestly i don't pay attention to the battle server so take this with a grain of salt but it struck me as interesting
i'd say going to them directly and figuring out why the core members dropped off and then working on that is the first option

 

[Zeffy]

#outsidercomment

i've seen a few posts from weenie hut server ex-regulars who have complained about the social atmosphere of the place being the reason why they left or don't visit so often anymore, citing some dispute or another
and it seemed like it had been a long-running problem as well?
honestly i don't pay attention to the battle server so take this with a grain of salt but it struck me as interesting
i'd say going to them directly and figuring out why the core members dropped off and then working on that is the first option

There's been problems between members, and that can't be avoided. I mean, heck, the same thing happens on the forums. The only difference is that the battle server is a live chat, which introduces a lot of problems when stuff like this happens. Them leaving due to a dispute against other members is not an inherent problem of the server, and really isn't something that can be "worked out" because it's a personal thing.

Although I'd love to know who these ex-regulars are. As far as I know, there's only a handful of people who left the battle server for good (personal reasons or otherwise), but the "core members" have been the same people for like 2 years or so.

RE: the thread as a whole
I don't think I can contribute anything else that Gavin hasn't already said. We've been looking for an easier method of resetting the server but the valid options are out of question, since iirc PPN won't allow FTP access to the server files. The only other solution is hosting it on PC, dropping the psim domain, but since I last checked that requires the use of Showdown's client (although I could be wrong.) The client still requires a LOT of code writing and rewriting, as it does not involve a lot of the stuff that the server software offers. Most of the BSS administrators have little to no knowledge of web development, and since Gavin left staff there's been no one else who offered to help.

 

[Her]

idr tbh
as I said I don't pay attention to the battle server lmao

 

[Zeffy]

as I said I don't pay attention to the battle server lmao

story of our life ;_____;

 

[wolf]

The decline in activity is partly my fault. I had to take an extended break for most of the summer to focus on my schoolwork. During that the server seems to have stagnated. There's a lot of dependency on battle server senior staff (Anti, Chase, Hermione Granger, and I) to keep things fresh and interesting, so we're trying to break out of that mold by making stuff like event creation more accessible for the community and BSS. We intend to make a guide/DCC for creating events soon, but the PC League facelift and Community Day preparations are a higher priority for now. This suggestion is also a result of these efforts. PC is very lacking in incentives for contributions like event hosting.

In addition to Community Day and PC League offseason events, I intend to host more events like the long-awaited Improve-A-Pokemon project. x) The battle server will be getting a small redesign with a new background too.

1) User rooms be brought back as they never truly posed any problems so long as they were regulated

I disagreed with removing them, but I wasn't around for when it happened. I agree that they could be brought back, and we could only accept certain room requests that the BSS is OK with.

Appreciated on bringing it up with staff. My suggestion to the highers here is to get the server onto PC, and stop hosting it through an external client. Drop the "psim", give the BSS Administrators more power to update the server themselves, and integrate it with PC better so that it doesn't just feel shoehorned in. Avoid making the "PC 2.0" excuse as it can be done now without an extreme amount of effort and isn't necessarily a "forum software" upgrade. Once it's set up server staff will have a better hold of what they can and cannot do, they can create their own meta-games and make the server feel more like it's tailored for the forum instead of just being an external extension.

I've thought about doing this myself, but I'm not sure how to go about setting up a PS client. I'm not fluent at all with JavaScript and MySQL at the moment. I have no clue how to make a login/authentication server and a database abstraction library for it.

#outsidercomment

i've seen a few posts from weenie hut server ex-regulars who have complained about the social atmosphere of the place being the reason why they left or don't visit so often anymore, citing some dispute or another
and it seemed like it had been a long-running problem as well?
honestly i don't pay attention to the battle server so take this with a grain of salt but it struck me as interesting
i'd say going to them directly and figuring out why the core members dropped off and then working on that is the first option

There are about three troublesome users that the BSS is occasionally too lax on. I'm aware of these issues and I plan to push BSS to be more strict and consistent with moderation.

Right now the BSS is slightly disorganized on moderation procedures, which is also my fault. Everyone is waiting on me to write up the new guidelines haha.

 

[gimmepie]

Maybe using the newfound focus on social media we could promote further activity for the sever? I know my activity their fluctuates a lot with my interest (and sadly my battling competence along with it lol), but even I can tell you that the server has slumped a bit - although I'm not about to point any fingers I know how hard the server staff work.

 

[Anti]

Thank you for making this thread, Gavin. There are a lot of relevant issues to be discussed.

On activity, a lot of the decline is your typical summertime blues, as others have stated. That said, I was here in a lesser capacity last summer and it was rarely this bad. The issue of user-created rooms seems particularly important here. A vast majority of users who created rooms did so, to be frank, as vanity projects. While most rooms were completely inactive, those that were not featured users who self-segregated from the community found in main chat and who left the server altogether when their rooms were removed. For this reason, I don't think the loss of these anonymous users has been a huge loss. However, one issue I did not foresee was that, well, they made the server appear to be active, so even if very few people you know were online, you stuck around expecting people to show up sooner or later. This illusion, if you will, no longer exists, and it deters people from staying online when they come on and the server is dead. If we were to bring back rooms to bring back randoms--who, crucially, also filled in live tournaments which have curiously all but ceased to exist--then I would be all for it. We would need to be much more deliberate in their purpose, requirements, etc. before reinstating them. In their previous existence, rooms were a mess.

While on this topic, I want to address wolf shouldering much of the blame. I appreciate wolf's trademark humility, but this is an incomplete portrayal of the issue. The BSS has a lot of problems, and solving them would allow it to function better as an entity that encourages activity. I've brought this up in more detail with the BSS, but the tl;dr is that there are no clear expectations for what moderators are supposed to do, so through no real fault of their own, they tend to do nothing. Everything the BSS does to make the server more fun is basically only done by the admins, which is again a fault in the way the BSS is set up. My hope for this is that the BSS is repurposed so that:

- More active moderation of the server chat is an expectation (thus excising the few remaining cancerous presences we have left).
- More active participation in creating/running events and other content is an expectation, with a support system in place to help with their brainstorming and execution.
- The promotion and demotion processes more strongly reflect community presence and contribution instead of just how pleasant someone is.
- The BSS is revamped to reflect these changes.

While I truthfully wish that there was less of a reliance on the staff in general to "make things interesting," it is nevertheless our job to provide active and coherent leadership of the server. I think that streamlining the currently inefficient BSS would increase activity simply because we would have a wider array of staff contribution, which makes the server more fun.

On the relationship between the BSS and h-staff, I think Gavin is right in saying that h-staff taking a more active interest (especially by marketing the server) would legitimize the server more broadly as a fun and important place within the grand scheme of PC. I might be wrong, but I don't think the server has ever really overcome the lingering bad reputation of the battling community (despite pretty much all of its abuses being aggressively tackled in 2011 lol), and I am hopeful that more marketing and integration would make it a more "legit" place. I think we do fine running it ourselves though and tend to agree with the autonomous label. I don't think that autonomous moderation is mutually exclusive with a more active interest from h-staff though, for all the reasons Gavin mentioned.

Also, the mentions of social media fit well with what the server can provide. If this is a new priority for PC, the battling community is actually very well-suited for increasing PC's social media presence, especially on YouTube. Battling is pretty unique in that it is extremely easy to produce marketable content like replays (which can easily be done through something like Twitter), and competitive PokeTubing is actually really cool when done well.

I'm not really sure what you think the higher staff can do to better the activity on the server that the BSS aren't already attempting to do.

How about this?

I might be overplaying my hand here, but besides the long-overdue BSS revamp discussed above, this is what I personally think is a top priority for creating and maintaining interest. I must confess that the trajectory of the thread linked above really disappointed me. I got some "it's in the works :3" but I really don't buy that: wolf and Zeffy have both said that the system in the works does not actually accomplish any of the goals we would need it to accomplish for the server. (And if the h-staff is confident in our ability to run the server autonomously, it would be nice if wolf and Zeffy got some benefit of the doubt on this judgment and on the battling community's need for a real incentive.) If the h-staff is opposed to an all-encompassing incentive structure similar to badges, that's fine, but there are other more localized solutions that can be brainstormed and implemented. I actually mentioned this in the OP of that thread, but it kind of got railroaded by a discussion about emblems, which wasn't supposed to be the purpose of the thread. To Gavin's point, this is where a little more h-staff proactivity would admittedly be appreciated.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

I'm not sure how much this will help, but I'm going to attempt to showcase some battles that take place on the Server for PC's Youtube channel. If there is anything specific you would want me to showcase, let me know.

The finals for the OU tour, christos vs aps, would probably be good

 

[Sirfetch’d]

Alright. If Christos/anyone can let me know when the battle is going on, that would be great!

Just curious, would the video just be a replay or would it also have commentary, analysis, etc.? I think it would be cool to maybe have a little segment where both participants of the featured battles are interviewed(they wouldn't be the ones speaking ofc but rather just providing answers) and maybe give some details about their team and the strategies used to win.