The Best Overall Team (Unofficial)

[Dark Azelf]

It is. Still, we must respect the thread starter's wishes.

Stat-uppers are basically for late-game, in early game they generally don't do so well IMO. I've always thought DDmence was just an inferior copyof Dragon Dance Dragonite, and I stand by that. If anything, we should use that...

DD Mence is better IMO, just because its so much faster.

But whatever, one thing Draggy has >> garchomp and Salamence is Dragon Dance and Outrage on the same moveset.


Dragonite@Life Orb
252 ATT / 190 SPEED / 68 HP
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch / Fire Blast
- Earthquake


We now have our phys sweeper for late game, Dragon Dance and Outrage is really dangerous late game.

Fire Punch may be better due to the Attack boost and does more to Bronzong, although Fire Blast OHKO's Forry and 2HKO'S Skarm. etc.



@Waker, you forgot that Azelf has Nasty Plot >> Alakazam aswell lol

 

[Anti]

DD Mence is better IMO, just because its so much faster.

After one or two DDs speed is irrelevant. DDnite is bulkier and has access to Outrage. Game over.

But whatever, one thing Draggy has >> garchomp and Salamence is Dragon Dance and Outrage on the same moveset.


Dragonite@Life Orb
252 ATT / 190 SPEED / 68 HP
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch / Fire Blast
- Earthquake


We now have our phys sweeper for late game, Dragon Dance and Outrage is really dangerous late game.

Fire Punch may be better due to the Attack boost and does more to Bronzong, although Fire Blast OHKO's Forry and 2HKO'S Skarm. etc.



@Waker, you forgot that Azelf has Nasty Plot >> Alakazam aswell lol

Waker, I don't believe I ever said that in a quote...

Oh well. Dragonite is pretty much a Mixape Counter too, as it double-resists grass knot and takes lol damage from Close Combat and Flamethrower.

Zam can runs Choice Specs better than Azelf though, that's the big thing really for me.

 

[Waker of Chaos]

Waker, I don't believe I ever said that in a quote...

Oh well. Dragonite is pretty much a Mixape Counter too, as it double-resists grass knot and takes lol damage from Close Combat and Flamethrower.

Zam can runs Choice Specs better than Azelf though, that's the big thing really for me.

I altered the quote to reflect what the team really is. Nothing more.

@Waker, you forgot that Azelf has Nasty Plot >> Alakazam aswell lol

I didn't point it out because they both have it.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I altered the quote to reflect what the team really is. Nothing more.



I didn't point it out because they both have it.

Zam gets Calm Mind but not nasty plot.


So

Dragonite
Starmie
Blissey
Weezing
Heracross
?????????


Sp.Sweeper for the last Slot ??

 

[sims796]

After all this arguement on Gliscor, why did we put Weezing in here? Gliscor is a much more superior wall than Weezing will ever be, IMO.

& I also don't remember ever settling for Nite.

 

[Dark Azelf]

After all this arguement on Gliscor, why did we put Weezing in here? Gliscor is a much more superior wall than Weezing will ever be, IMO.

& I also don't remember ever settling for Nite.

Weezing Hazes which Gliscor cannot do and still beats heracross.

We decided on nite as we needed a sweeper for late game, you know Dragon Dance up, Heracross and infernape added to weaknesses so we dropped ape for Nite.

 

[Anti]

Sims, weezing is a good wall with a fighting and EQ resist. It is also a more versatile attacker than Gliscor. The best thing is no 4x weak to ice. Gliscor is superior, but not by much, and Weezing might help our cause more.

 

[Death_Machine]

I don't know... But i really prefer nape over heracross. yes he can't switch in but when he does on forestress and the oh so common SkarmBliss, he nastyplots (if he's special) and sweeps a good deal of pokes. I think you chose this guy as skarmbliss counter; even if he's ugly it's an awesome poke with great sweeping power.
I personnally think weezing is the superior choice over Gliscor (well for this team)

 

[sims796]

If we were to drop anyone, it should have been Hera, since Nape is more versitile. Everyone on this thread is too quick to settle without thinking in the long run, which leads to major backtracking. If we have to SETTLE for something, there is a problem.

 

[Death_Machine]

Exactly sims, nape is a lot better than heracross

 

[sims796]

No, that is overkill. He is NOT better than Hera, just that I feel he won't do much for this team.

 

[Death_Machine]

well hmm, what aout the weezing/gliscor debate?

 

[Anti]

I disagree Infernape is better for this team. Starmie can't switch into things very well, as it is fragile and has many weaknesses. Infernape only adds to this problem. We need something like Salamence or Dragonite that can switch into things generally easily.

If we can't bring in our sweepers, they'll just outstall our walls and set up on us. Heracross has some handy resists and nice SDef, and can beat Skarmbliss too (CBcross for the 2HKO on Skarmory).

Infernape is overrated-it doesan't have the power of pure special and physical sweepers, isn't as fast as a few of them, and the worst part being if it gets hit, it dies...it's as simple as that (unless it's a leech life from Zubat maybe).

So...

Starmie
Blissey
Weezing
Heracross

is what we have...needs some mixed walling IMO and then a special sweeper. I like the sound of a choice specs Salamence.

 

[sims796]

Simple as that? Excuse me? I'm getting fustrated again, to the point where I'm biting my tounge to prevent cursing out loud (again).

He's not meant to have the pure power of SP/Physical sweepers. That's why it's mixed.

First off, if we need a REAL sweeper, we need to think outside of Hera. I say Weavile, if it had more power. I also have little problems with a Swords Dancing Chomp, as Hera can be easily countered by Forry, meaning a switch, leading to Spikes (or worse, Stealth Rock) being launched at us. Starmie or another spinner can be predicted, leading to some problems on our part.

I speak from actual experience, not just what I read on paper. I dare the next person to try & undermine that, as I am getting too pissed for words.

 

[Anti]

Simple as that? Excuse me? I'm getting fustrated again, to the point where I'm biting my tounge to prevent cursing out loud (again).

I'm not trying to offend anyone here. All I said was that infernape dies if it gets hit by even a moderately strong attack...that's it...I wasn't saying my opinion was better, I was only stating it-nothing more.

He's not meant to have the pure power of SP/Physical sweepers. That's why it's mixed.

I don't see why this team needs a mixed sweeper though.

First off, if we need a REAL sweeper, we need to think outside of Hera.

How is Heracross not a real sweeper?

I say Weavile, if it had more power. I also have little problems with a Swords Dancing Chomp, as Hera can be easily countered by Forry, meaning a switch, leading to Spikes (or worse, Stealth Rock) being launched at us. Starmie or another spinner can be predicted, leading to some problems on our part.

You could say that about any spinner. Sure it's predictable, but only ghosts can stop it, and Starmie will 2HKO Gengar before it can kill it. SR doesn't hurt all too bad anyways.

I speak from actual experience, not just what I read on paper. I dare the next person to try & undermine that, as I am getting too pissed for words.

Really, I'm not trying to undermine anybody. I just disagree that Infernape would be good for this team.

And I ONLY speak from experience...I've used Infernape...it isn't that good. Hits a few things...dies...and that's really all I got out of it.

I don't think anybody is trying to undermine you sims, you're one of our best battlers. Calm...

Heracross is a great sweeper. I think it would be great for this team-it can switch in with decent skill and threatens things immediately. It's one of the hardest sweepers in the game to counter, especially the CB variant.

 

[sims796]

You don't understand why I'm so angry.

First, when I said real sweeper, I meant a whole sweeper, not one who needs some sort of frills to do decent damage. Hera is one, as is Chomp, Meta, etc. They don't need to charge to do real damage, as is why I said Chomp.

I truly believe that a mixed sweeper will be of most benifit, as it cuts the need to switch.

When I say experience, I mean on wi-fi, where you have less control in breeding, & where the enviorment is totally different. I don't take shoddy into consideration much. While battling Nicole, my Gya got KOed. No prob. Then, when I sent out Flygon, her Mence took it out as if I swapped pokes. I didn't switch Gya for Gon, I replaced it. So why did it attack as if I switched, & he got a free hit? Even Lady thought that was fishy. Hence why I don't trust shoddy.

As for my example, you just plum missed the point by a mile & a half. Hera is countered with little effort by Forry. Hera must switch or get walled. Leading to all those things I said. Basically, we could fall into the trap of prediction, which is a simple trrap to fall into with Hera.

Now, a Sleep Talk Hera is annoying, but not one that's banded or scarf. I keep having nightmares of Hera stuck on Sleep Talk, just to wake up.

Hence why I say Chomp with Fire Blast. Very little can counter it. Hell, people have trouble switching into my Flygon.

 

[Eos Aduro]

SIMS OUTPOSTED ME

And guys right now I think we need to look bigger picture here and focus on the team as a whole, not as seperate facters.

OH MY LORD DRAGONITE AGAIN!!!! We said Dragonite when this thread actually wasn;t ovwer run with newbs and had class, which was AGES ago. No offense people whop don't know what you;re talking about, go home. Just leave the thread, view, don't post.

And I already said mixwed wall, we could go Dusknoir. He's fairly reliable. Cresselia would be optimal. SO since Im very confused the team is

Starmie
Weezing/Gliscor
Blissey
Dragonite/Heracross

And nothing else? Hmmm, Mixed Electivire anyone?

AND EVERYONE CALM DOWN! We can talk about this without getting heated. That or the person with the least warnings tells the newbs to go home.

Mixed Electivire is a bigger threat than physical by a long shot, Flamethrower adds in a whole new factor, Bronzong and Forretress can't laugh at it and it can hurt a TON of stuff. If we use a mixed sweeper.

A mixed wall looks important to me. Very important. We need something that can switch into well, psychic attacks was one, but that doesn;t look that bad, Alakazam couynter, DUSKNOIR! I say Dusknoir and Mixed Electivire for the last spots.

 

[sims796]

I say no to mixed Vire. Since we lack the proper Bolt bait. If not Nape, then I still vote for Chain Chomp, or whichever includes Flamethrower.

Dusknoir. Hm. Interesting.

If I here "Calm down" again, I swear.

 

[Anti]

Forretress almost never carries rest, and it can't take repeated abuse from Heracross at all.

Close Combat 2HKOs with CB variants, just like Skarm (or so I've been told). Even if it doesn't, you switch, bring it in again...only the extra Damage Forry has taken will take its toll and even Scarf variants will threaten to kill it.

Forry with rest beats Scarfcross, but any Forry without it can only take so many close combats before folding into oblivion.

Heracross is really difficult to counter, and its STAB moves are a pain. Literally. If we use Heracross, I say we go CB (unless we have another CBer), and most Counters will meet their doom (like Forretress).

Stat-up sweepers generally aren't as good as the head-on attacking ones to be honest, at least this generation. Notice all the good stat-uppers (Raikou, Zam, Suicune, SDers in general) have lost at least some power. DDers are the exception here though, they actually got better.

Honestly, mixed sweepers have to switch even more than Physical/special sweepers. They don't hit nearly as hard from either side of the spectrum, so more things can switch in and counter them. Look at mixed flygon for example. That thing can attack fairly well special and physical-wise, but walls and tanks like Milotic, Swampert, and Cresselia just will straight-up laugh.

They are much more dangerous to teams with two walls (namely SkarmBliss), but to better-prepared teams on the defensive end, they are much weaker.

EDIT: I'm with sims, no Mixed Vire >:0 Remember, we're just trying to keep order in the thread :)

I love the idea of Chain Chomp.

 

[Eos Aduro]

I was mostly yelling at myself so I didnt scream at the newbs to go hide in holes. Don;t quote me on that.

And Dusknoir actually seems to fit this team well.