The Jumbo combo

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    Now as my name should imply, I am a fan of the Water/Ice type Walrein. I recently traded for a Snorlax. I have a theory that Waldron and Snorlax would make a perfect duo. A Bulky Special attacker and a Bulky Physical attacker. I was wondering what y'all would think of my theory and how to correct it as needed. Much Obliged
     
    Hmm just off the top of my head, they do both have a shared fighting weakness. Furthermore it would help to know the sets you're proposing for both of them and the sets for the rest of the team they'd be placed on. Also it would be nice to know Singles or Doubles or OU/UU.
     
    Hmm just off the top of my head, they do both have a shared fighting weakness. Furthermore it would help to know the sets you're proposing for both of them and the sets for the rest of the team they'd be placed on. Also it would be nice to know Singles or Doubles or OU/UU.

    Walrein: Ice Beam, Surf, Rest, and Scald. Leftovers.
    Snorlax: Body Slam, Rest, Mega Punch, and Crunch. Possibly Chesto Berry
    Battling: Preferably singles
     
    Walrein: Ice Beam, Surf, Rest, and Scald. Leftovers.
    Snorlax: Body Slam, Rest, Mega Punch, and Crunch. Possibly Chesto Berry
    Battling: Preferably singles

    Walrein functions best in the hail that's brought by (Mega) Abomasnow. However, the main problem with the two, as well as Snorlax, is that both are weak to Fighting. If you happen to include all three at once, that's bad.

    Walrein can't learn Scald. Here's a better set it should run, even though Abomasnow is a mandatory teammate for it, due to the hail inflicting passive damage to the opponent, as well as it activating the Ice Body ability between turns:
    -Substitute
    -Protect
    -Blizzard/Surf
    -Roar/Toxic
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 232 HP/168 Def/108 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Ice Body

    Mega Punch isn't that useful on Snorlax because not only does it have a chance to miss, but it also doesn't really do anything else. Body Slam is the preferred STAB move for a chance to inflict paralysis, while Return is another option for more power at max happiness. Snorlax should carry one STAB move at a time, generally; the only exception is Self-Destruct, which lets it nuke a non-Ghost/Rock/Steel Pokemon for massive damage; this is best used when Snorlax is on :
    -Curse
    -Body Slam/Return
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk/Earthquake/Crunch
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 144 HP/188 Def/176 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat

    or
    -Return/Body Slam/Double-Edge
    -Pursuit/Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Thick Fat

    or
    -Return/Body Slam
    -Pursuit/Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch/Crunch
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Assault Vest
    Ability: Thick Fat

    Can you prove why Snorlax and Walrein work well together? I highly doubt they do because of their shared Fighting weakness.
     
    Walrein functions best in the hail that's brought by (Mega) Abomasnow. However, the main problem with the two, as well as Snorlax, is that both are weak to Fighting. If you happen to include all three at once, that's bad.

    Walrein can't learn Scald. Here's a better set it should run, even though Abomasnow is a mandatory teammate for it, due to the hail inflicting passive damage to the opponent, as well as it activating the Ice Body ability between turns:
    -Substitute
    -Protect
    -Blizzard/Surf
    -Roar/Toxic
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 232 HP/168 Def/108 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Ice Body

    Mega Punch isn't that useful on Snorlax because not only does it have a chance to miss, but it also doesn't really do anything else. Body Slam is the preferred STAB move for a chance to inflict paralysis, while Return is another option for more power at max happiness. Snorlax should carry one STAB move at a time, generally; the only exception is Self-Destruct, which lets it nuke a non-Ghost/Rock/Steel Pokemon for massive damage; this is best used when Snorlax is on :
    -Curse
    -Body Slam/Return
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk/Earthquake/Crunch
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 144 HP/188 Def/176 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat

    or
    -Return/Body Slam/Double-Edge
    -Pursuit/Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Thick Fat

    or
    -Return/Body Slam
    -Pursuit/Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch/Crunch
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Assault Vest
    Ability: Thick Fat

    Can you prove why Snorlax and Walrein work well together? I highly doubt they do because of their shared Fighting weakness.

    In all honesty I'm looking for relevancy in Walrein. He's my all time favorite pokemon. The only 2 that come close are Blastoise and Venasaur. I just wanna know if there's something there for Walrein, if there is a hidden terror inside of him. Could he have a chance on a competitive team?
     
    In all honesty I'm looking for relevancy in Walrein. He's my all time favorite pokemon. The only 2 that come close are Blastoise and Venasaur. I just wanna know if there's something there for Walrein, if there is a hidden terror inside of him. Could he have a chance on a competitive team?

    Simply put, no. The nerf to weather mechanics (perma-weather abilities like Sand Stream and Snow Warning) in Gen VI hurt the stalling Walrein set's usefulness, as permanent hail was what made it effective on dedicated hail teams. And speaking of dedicated hail teams, they're practically nonexistent because Snow Warning now lasts 5 turns (8 with Icy Rock).
     
    Simply put, no. The nerf to weather mechanics (perma-weather abilities like Sand Stream and Snow Warning) in Gen VI hurt the stalling Walrein set's usefulness, as permanent hail was what made it effective on dedicated hail teams. And speaking of dedicated hail teams, they're practically nonexistent because Snow Warning now lasts 5 turns (8 with Icy Rock).

    What would you suggest as a good water type with plenty of use and power in today's competitive scene?
     
    What would you suggest as a good water type with plenty of use and power in today's competitive scene?

    Water Pokemon to turn to are Azumarill, (Mega) Slowbro, (Mega) Gyarados, Keldeo, Wash Rotom and Starmie:

    Azumarill:
    -Waterfall
    -Play Rough
    -Aqua Jet
    -Knock Off/Superpower
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 164 HP/252 Atk/92 Spe (Choice Band) or 240 HP/252 Atk/16 SDef (Assault Vest)
    Item: Choice Band/Assault Vest
    Ability: Huge Power

    or
    -Belly Drum
    -Aqua Jet
    -Play Rough
    -Knock Off
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Huge Power

    Slowbro:
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Psyshock
    -Slack Off
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/176 SDef
    Item: Slowbronite
    Ability: Regenerator

    or
    -Scald
    -Psyshock/Fire Blast/Ice Beam/Foul Play
    -Thunder Wave/Toxic
    -Slack Off
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/232 Def/24 SDef
    Item: Leftovers/Slowbronite
    Ability: Regenerator

    Gyarados:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall/Earthquake
    -Crunch
    -Earthquake/Taunt/Substitute
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate

    or
    -Waterfall
    -Thunder Wave/Dragon Tail/Roar
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 248 HP/116 Def/136 SDef/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate

    or
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Bounce
    -Substitute/Taunt
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 88 HP/220 Atk/4 Def/196 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate

    Keldeo:
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Secret Sword
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Scald
    -Icy Wind/Hidden Power (Electric)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

    Wash Rotom:
    -Volt Switch
    -Hydro Pump
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Pain Split
    Nature: Bold/Calm
    EVs: 248 HP/216 Def/44 Spe (Bold) or 248 HP/216 SDef/44 Spe (Calm)
    Item: Leftovers

    Starmie:
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Reflect Type
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/16 Def/244 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    or
    -Hydro Pump
    -Psyshock/Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure/Analytic
     
    If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


    Anywho.

    Walrein.

    You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

    If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

    Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

    [PokeCommunity.com] The Jumbo combo
     
    If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


    Anywho.

    Walrein.

    You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

    If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

    Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

    [PokeCommunity.com] The Jumbo combo
    Walrein's Attack is lower than its Special Attack, so I'd rather not waste the higher stat. Walrein is highly ineffective at using Curse because of its bad defensive typing. And for Curse sets, maximum special bulk is preferred (252 HP/252 Special Defense), as you're boosting your physical stats anyways.

    As I already outlined above, Stallrein is the best way to use Walrein because of the incredible stalling potential in hail, even if the weather mechanics got nerfed.
     
    Stallrein in hail is arguably the "best" way to use it, but Hail is also a huge bitch to get up and maintain, not to mention that the only two hail summoners have an assload of weaknesses....

    Some sorta tank set with max HP investment, Leftovers, and Thick Fat would be the best alternative I can think of. Problem would be which offensive stat to invest in (I don't think it has to stats to go mixed).....Walrein's movepool ain't so good. Gets Frost Breath via TM though which could be fun.

    But as for partners, stuff to resist Fighting, Electric, and Grass would be good places to start. Snorlax wouldn't be a terribly good partner in that case since it's really slow and is also weak to Fighting.

    First off, I would like to ask: which battle format do you want to use these Pokemon for? Singles? Doubles? Triples? Rotation?
    I think he mentioned singles in an earlier post.
     
    If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


    Anywho.

    Walrein.

    You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

    If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

    Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

    [PokeCommunity.com] The Jumbo combo

    Excuse me sage, im using koffing, fletchinder, cacnea and omanyte in OU and keep losing, i really love them can you help me?
     
    Excuse me sage, im using koffing, fletchinder, cacnea and omanyte in OU and keep losing, i really love them can you help me?



    Oh hey, look you're even in that one as a lil' Mime Jr. If your success is continuously held out of your grasp tho young grasshopper; you may want to consider a change of scenery in order to achieve victory with beloved 'mons.
     
    Guys this is borderline trolling. You have a point that using your favourite Pokémon may not always be a feasible method of battling competitively; but give the passive-aggressiveness a rest. Thanks!
     
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