The PCNation

[Saragraph]

I saw this thread and read the first post. A very interesting discussion that I would love to take part in since I like discussing politics, however I'm not going to read through twelve pages of text. So, before I start discussing our to be established PCNation I would like it if someone could give me a brief summary of what already has been discussed and decided upon so I don't unnecessarily start old topic X again.

 

[gimmepie]

I saw this thread and read the first post. A very interesting discussion that I would love to take part in since I like discussing politics, however I'm not going to read through twelve pages of text. So, before I start discussing our to be established PCNation I would like it if someone could give me a brief summary of what already has been discussed and decided upon so I don't unnecessarily start old topic X again.

We have determined that we're a capitalist representative democracy. We have two houses of government (we have yet to determine how the upper house is determined). We did already end up voting on whether or not a right to bear arms would be a part of our bill of right, and the gun-lovers won.

What we're currently working on

-Constitution
-Bill of rights
-How are members of our upper house determined.

I don't think I missed anything.

 

[Saragraph]

For the sake of discussion, I'm going to throw in my country's system.

Say we split up the country into a number of different provinces or states or whatever we decide to call them. Each province has it's own "parliament" or something that closely resembles one. People who live in these provinces have the right to vote in elections for their Province's parliament. After these elections when the people have chosen their province MPs and everything is running well, the people who got elected cast their vote in an election that determines the upper house.
This system gives the citizens more control over their own province which is a good thing in my opinion. This system also forces the biggest parties in the lower house to co-operate more with the other parties. Why? The election for the upper house will of course not be held close to the moment the lower house gets elected which should make the upper house's composition different than the lower house's. And because of this the biggest parties in the lower house which will have to form a coalition in order to govern, will be forced to co-operate with the other parties to get their laws past the upper house, which would be the institute that has the right to accept or reject legislative proposals, but not to amend them or to initiate legislation. In other words: more people will be heard and more people have control over legislation. The point of this is that citizens will be protected against the "tyranny of the majority".
"But aren't the elections for the upper house grossly unfair since the people can't vote directly?" These provincial states are already representative and will still be shortly after, when the election for the upper house would be held. And since the upper house is elected by the members of these provincial parliaments who tend to vote for their own parties (because why wouldn't they), the upper house is still representative. Plus the upper house isn't as important. These elections would also be quicker than if people chose the upper house directly, since only a fraction of the total populace would vote.

This is just one out of many options. We could go with this or with something completely else. There are pros and cons. I like this system, but I'm very probably biased since this is the system I have over here. So I would like you guys' thoughts. Is it a good system? Is it a good system for our nation?

 

[Sun]

Saragraph, your idea is actually good. Though personally, I prefer if PC Nation works as one instead of creating states or provinces, as it may further complicate stuff. (:

 

[Somewhere_]

I like your idea Saragraph! And lets make a law that states provinces can break away from the nation as well, and then each province at least has a ruling body to start off with.

 

[gimmepie]

Can we finish planning our federal government before we start look at state governments.

 

[gimmepie]

Sorry I'm keeping you waiting on the bill of rights/constitution. I will definitely have my idea for the first of the two up over the next few days and then you guys can pick it to shreds xD

 

[Somewhere_]

Sorry I'm keeping you waiting on the bill of rights/constitution. I will definitely have my idea for the first of the two up over the next few days and then you guys can pick it to shreds xD

I think its all of our faults haha. Dont blame it on you! :D We are all probably fairly busy with the holidays anyways. It will probably pick back up after the new year.

 

[Sun]

Now that the holidays are over, shall we get back on our discussion regarding the federal governments? (:

 

[gimmepie]

So, it's not much but I got started on a bill of rights, thoughts?

Spoiler:

The Right to Free Speech
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to express any opinion without censorship or restraint.

The Right to Freedom of Religion
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to practice any religious belief they may hold and to be free of religious persecution from their government or peers.

The Right to Fair Trial
Citizens of the PCNation have a right to legal representation if accused of breaking a law, civil or state, and to be judged free of persecution or bias. Citizens of the PCNation are to be considered innocent until proven guilty under the burden of proof.

The Right to Life and Liberty
Citizens have the right to life, free from restrictions to their civil liberties.

The Right to Bare Arms
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to own a firearm and use it for the sake of sport or, if their life is threatened, in self-defence. Possession of a firearm requires police clearance and a license supplied by the federal government.

The Right to Vote
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to vote for government representatives.

The Right to Government Support
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to financial or medical support from the government in times of need. This extends to the existence of government hospitals.

 

[Somewhere_]

So, it's not much but I got started on a bill of rights, thoughts?

Spoiler:

The Right to Free Speech
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to express any opinion without censorship or restraint.

The Right to Freedom of Religion
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to practice any religious belief they may hold and to be free of religious persecution from their government or peers.

The Right to Fair Trial
Citizens of the PCNation have a right to legal representation if accused of breaking a law, civil or state, and to be judged free of persecution or bias. Citizens of the PCNation are to be considered innocent until proven guilty under the burden of proof.

The Right to Life and Liberty
Citizens have the right to life, free from restrictions to their civil liberties.

The Right to Bare Arms
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to own a firearm and use it for the sake of sport or, if their life is threatened, in self-defence. Possession of a firearm requires police clearance and a license supplied by the federal government.

The Right to Vote
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to vote for government representatives.

The Right to Government Support
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to financial or medical support from the government in times of need. This extends to the existence of government hospitals.

those are great! However, I have a few questions and statements. when you say right to religion, does this right extend to right for groups to come together? And as for discrimination, does this contradict freedom of speech?

Under the right to fair trial, does this include appeals?

Under right to government support, I disagree with this. Because the right to government support is the right to take money from others to be given to that individual, which is wrong. That is a privilege, not a right.

 

[gimmepie]

those are great! However, I have a few questions and statements. when you say right to religion, does this right extend to right for groups to come together? And as for discrimination, does this contradict freedom of speech?

Why wouldn't it extend to the right to religious groups to form congregations etc? As for freedom of speech, I don't think it's contradictory. People don't have to like religious groups, they just can't do anything about them.

Under the right to fair trial, does this include appeals?

I didn't think about that, it probably should.

Under right to government support, I disagree with this. Because the right to government support is the right to take money from others to be given to that individual, which is wrong. That is a privilege, not a right.

It's not talking about hand outs. It's talking about things like emergency support and the executive branch (fire department, public hospitals, state run police). People should have the comfort of knowing that the government will be supportive in times of crisis and this prevents the government from refusing aid to those who need it.

 

[Fairy Tale~]

Could a member who is about to get banned have a trial?

 

[gimmepie]

Could a member who is about to get banned have a trial?

This is a hypothetical nation, PC bans have nothing to do with it xD

 

[Fairy Tale~]

This is a hypothetical nation, PC bans have nothing to do with it xD

I mean could there be a ban from a region with a trial?

 

[gimmepie]

I mean could there be a ban from a region with a trial?

More likely a person would end up in jail.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

So, it's not much but I got started on a bill of rights, thoughts?

Spoiler:

The Right to Free Speech
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to express any opinion without censorship or restraint.

The Right to Freedom of Religion
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to practice any religious belief they may hold and to be free of religious persecution from their government or peers.

The Right to Fair Trial
Citizens of the PCNation have a right to legal representation if accused of breaking a law, civil or state, and to be judged free of persecution or bias. Citizens of the PCNation are to be considered innocent until proven guilty under the burden of proof.

The Right to Life and Liberty
Citizens have the right to life, free from restrictions to their civil liberties.

The Right to Bare Arms
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to own a firearm and use it for the sake of sport or, if their life is threatened, in self-defence. Possession of a firearm requires police clearance and a license supplied by the federal government.

The Right to Vote
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to vote for government representatives.

The Right to Government Support
Citizens of the PCNation have the right to financial or medical support from the government in times of need. This extends to the existence of government hospitals.

While this is fine and dandy, there is a disturbing lack of a right of trial by jury that isn't accompanying the right to fair trial. It's hard to have an unbiased trial if there is no jury as, by logic, there would be a possibility that there is no such thing as a jury in our legal system (not saying it will happen, but is is plausible). I'd suggest adding that.

 

[gimmepie]

While this is fine and dandy, there is a disturbing lack of a right of trial by jury that isn't accompanying the right to fair trial. It's hard to have an unbiased trial if there is no jury as, by logic, there would be a possibility that there is no such thing as a jury in our legal system (not saying it will happen, but is is plausible). I'd suggest adding that.

I actually intended to include that, must have slipped my mind. Any ideas for further additions?

 

[Thepowaofhax]

I actually intended to include that, must have slipped my mind. Any ideas for further additions?

Perhaps something related to that as well, specifically since there is also a lack of anything against cruel or unusual punishment and the other could also perhaps be education.

 

[gimmepie]

Perhaps something related to that as well, specifically since there is also a lack of anything against cruel or unusual punishment and the other could also perhaps be education.

So add the former as a sub-point to fair trial and include a right to education?