The Pursuit of Happiness

[Tek]

Recent topics have made me think about how utterly deluded and delusional Western cultures are.




Everyone is expected to try and "get somewhere" or to "be somebody". We grow up thinking that this is what life is all about, and we never seem to question it. You've gotta have a job, you've gotta buy a house, you've gotta dress up in respectable clothes, and above all, you must always, always, be striving for something more.


And if you don't? At best, we simply don't know what to do with you, or in other words, we don't know what's wrong with you. At worst, you'll be openly shunned or thrown in jail.






And we say, "Well of course you've got to! Do you want to just be a nobody?" We make it so that being "nobody" is one of the ugliest, most shameful things a person can do. Yet Oriental cultures have the utmost respect for what they call the "mountain hermits." The hermit is one who has played the game, and has seen through it.


The hermit knows that while the striving, the codes of conduct, and all other manner of social agreements do have some merit in the way of dignity and order, they are ultimately empty and without substance. He finds his fulfillment not from the vicious circle of "success" that requires one to go on succeeding, endlessly, but from the simple feeling of being. Thus, he retreats into the mountains, builds a small hut out of straw, and lives out his life playing with the bugs and fallen leaves.


This is, of course, a caricature of the liberated person. But the point is that not only do Eastern cultures have no uneasiness or confusion about such a person, they actively embrace him! In that culture, the hermit is living out the ultimate goal of all people, which is simply to find happiness and fulfillment in the present moment, regardless of circumstance.






But not so for we Westerners. Misery is practically written into our America's governing documents, i.e. "the pursuit of happiness." But clearly, if your happiness is dependent on some future event or object, you have committed yourself to being unhappy in the present! When the future comes, it is always now, and it seems it is never enough.


There is no other time than now. So we have institutionalized a chronic turning-away from the only thing that exists, which is the present moment. No wonder the people who are the most caught up in the rat-race, the ones who are the most "successful" by conventional standards, can often be the most deeply unsatisfied and unhappy individuals.






I say we have got the whole thing backwards, in making the future so much more important than the present. Furthermore I think that the massive overconsumption of resources in industrialized nations (*cough cough America*), as well as the widespread anxiety and dissatisfaction with life, stems directly from this hideous error. What do you think?

 

[BadPokemon]

The only way to achieve everlasting happiness is through Christ. Putting others first actually makes to happy. Selfish behavior doesn't. In order to achieve happiness, we think only of ourselves. We buy things. And it really doesn't get us happiness- only temporarily.

 

[droomph]

Ooh time for touchy subjects.

I think it's fine to look to the future, essential, even. How would we advance as a culture if we just sit there and take what we've got? That's just lazy. But we need to stay focused on reality, and not get too lost in our hopes and dreams.

But every once in a while you gotta regroup and count your blessings. Cliché yeah, but you gotta think whenever you feel like nothing's going right what you have. You need to sit down and get rid of that negativity bias that results from looking to the future. Looking towards the future as the only way of looking at things leads to stress, because it's the most uncertain of the tenses. It's a major theme in every famous literary piece — Gatsby wants to repeat the past because the future is uncertain, Holden needs help to handle the future, to name a couple — they all come to the same conclusion — focus on the present. Nick in The Great Gatsby decides to leave the stock market — the most future-oriented job out there — and focus on treating his alcoholism, a goal that focuses on the present, and dealing with the past. Holden gets help to treat his present problems, to focus on his past.

But we see that people are happy, at least superficially, because of wealth. Daisy and Tom can do anything — like moving to Paris for no reason — they want because they have money. Holden can do all these things because he has serious money (seriously, who's going to sleep in ice for three days when there's a warm dorm room, no matter how ♥♥♥♥ the people there are?). But as we can see, these people all have serious negative outlooks on life.

So the conclusion in all of these stories is that while the pursuit of happiness is a great thing, it's a flawed notion by itself and needs support from other things to maintain its integrity. It's how you use the happiness, basically.

I don't know where I was going with that

 

[shortsboy]

I am not sure what oriental culture you are talking about. East-Asian culture (Japan, China, HK, Korea, Taiwan) is much more driven towards social status and material wealth than any western country.

 

[Rogue planet]

I think a balance somewhere in the middle is the best goal to strive for.

We romanticise the "enlightened hermit" you seem to be describing, but how often do you actually see this outside of fiction? Even the Dalai Lama does not fully live this kind of lifestyle. It is not possible to be satisfied this way; surviving without electricity, in the woods, away from society growing your own food... it just doesn't work.

I agree with you somewhat. Society in general has developed a craving to always have something more, we work more to earn more so we can consume more. The key is to cut down on the consumption, and be content with that. Enjoying small things, but not to the point of cutting out everything. Something more in tune with an updated version of an early-mid 20th century lifestyle, without a drastic overhaul. It's not incredibly difficult to obtain. Find a part time job or contribute in whatever way possible, laziness is never an option, but there are alternatives to becoming a salaryman.

The biggest barrier unfortunately is the rising house prices making it seemingly impossible to afford decent accommodation without a well paying, full time job. at least in the places where I've lived in Europe, not sure what the situation is in America. It leaves the only option being staying at home, which is rarely acceptable and often undesirable in many cultures

You've gotta have a job, you've gotta buy a house, you've gotta dress up in respectable clothes, and above all, you must always, always, be striving for something more.

At worst, you'll be openly shunned or thrown in jail.

Thrown in jail? Why?
Shunned by many, sure, but accepted by an almost equal amount... It is not so uncommon to feel this way. Just visit any art college of your choice.

 

[Kanzler]

I'm checking out Buddhism at the moment, and I've got to say it really works. Appreciating the "feeling of being" just feels really really good. And learning to be mindful has helped me loads with anxiety and "social awkwardness". I think Western culture is too individualistic. It emphasizes rigid expectations (the self) that doesn't hold up in reality.

The whole fear of expectations folds back onto itself. One wants to escape from societal expectations and makes a lot of effort to be "oneself". Then, when that person finds that they are fulfilling social expectations, there is a contradiction between their actions and their self-identity as a person who has escaped from societal expectations - they've failed to meet their own expectations. The only way out of it is to not take expectations so seriously, to consider something for what it is, not what it's supposed to be.

Also, there is no Eastern culture. All culture is Western culture. I'm not Chinese in China, but even if I was I'd have to "rediscover" the traditions. *shrugs* Western culture is taking hold all over the world.

I don't think any of this made sense.

 

[Tek]

The only way to achieve everlasting happiness is through Christ. Putting others first actually makes to happy. Selfish behavior doesn't. In order to achieve happiness, we think only of ourselves. We buy things. And it really doesn't get us happiness- only temporarily.

We can certainly learn from Jesus' example!

Jesus spent forty days in the desert learning to rise above his selfish ego desires. He died to the little ego-self so that the True Self could shine through, which is really the only way to get rid of selfishness... even seeking salvation through Christ is a selfishly-motivated attempt to save one's own skin. This was Jesus' first step, the second was to say "Thy will be done," and thus start to think about what was good for everybody instead of thinking about what was good only for himself.

The ego-self is a bundle of ideas and carefully chosen memories; it is a wall of defense around a wall of defense around nothing. When we mistake this little self for our True Self, we are doomed to constant seeking, ceaseless grasping, endless suffering.




We can learn from Jesus' example, and be a Christ as he was. He hoped very much that we would, when he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane, saying "As you, Abba, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us... so that they may be one, as we are one, I am in them and you are in me."


These also are the words of the Boddhisatva Gautama, a Christ just like Jesus, when he proclaimed "Suffering alone exists, none who suffer." The little ego-self is the source of grasping, which leads to suffering. And since the ego is simply an idea, a mental abstraction, then in concrete fact there is no separate individual who can suffer.

I am not sure what oriental culture you are talking about. East-Asian culture (Japan, China, HK, Korea, Taiwan) is much more driven towards social status and material wealth than any western country.

You're right, I used the wrong verb tense. Eastern culture was different once. But over the last century or so, it has become Westernized and has contracted the same disease of insanity.

I think a balance somewhere in the middle is the best goal to strive for.

We romanticise the "enlightened hermit" you seem to be describing, but how often do you actually see this outside of fiction? Even the Dalai Lama does not fully live this kind of lifestyle. It is not possible to be satisfied this way; surviving without electricity, in the woods, away from society growing your own food... it just doesn't work.

Not to be rude, but...

This is, of course, a caricature of the liberated person. But the point is that not only do Eastern cultures have no uneasiness or confusion about such a person, they actively embrace him! In that culture, the hermit is living out the ultimate goal of all people, which is simply to find happiness and fulfillment in the present moment, regardless of circumstance.

The Oriental traditions have a habit of exaggeration, which is meant as a sort of humorous self-deprecation.

The key is to cut down on the consumption, and be content with that. Enjoying small things, but not to the point of cutting out everything. Something more in tune with an updated version of an early-mid 20th century lifestyle, without a drastic overhaul. It's not incredibly difficult to obtain. Find a part time job or contribute in whatever way possible, laziness is never an option, but there are alternatives to becoming a salaryman.

The biggest barrier unfortunately is the rising house prices making it seemingly impossible to afford decent accommodation without a well paying, full time job. at least in the places where I've lived in Europe, not sure what the situation is in America. It leaves the only option being staying at home, which is rarely acceptable and often undesirable in many cultures.

Indeed, at this point, it's very nearly impossible not to play the game. I feel that two things are likely in mankind's future. First will be an integration of all four quadrants, meaning that interior spaces will be given the same importance as exterior surfaces, which is not generally the case in today's world, where only frisky dirt is "really real." I see this movement as a first step to developing present-centered awareness in the population at large. But I'm not positive about the order of things there.

I think that whatever new consensus and new structure arise to facilitate living in the present will make great use of the informational technologies and systems that are being developed right now (the Internet as well as the "Internet of things", which I like to call the Thingernet).

Of course, it's possible that such a structure and consciousness will not arise, that our technological developments are more Flatland materialism, and that we will not find the global solutions required to deal with our global problems, leading to a backward slide in civilization. But one tries to stay positive.

Thrown in jail? Why?

Try this: go out and take a nap with your back against a tree in some place that is not a designated park or camping ground. I suggest you cooperate when the police tell you to go somewhere else.


Yet no one is being harmed, nothing is being damaged. Even were a large number of people to nap under trees next to the freeway, there would be little cause for alarm. The crime is conventional, not existential.

Shunned by many, sure, but accepted by an almost equal amount... It is not so uncommon to feel this way. Just visit any art college of your choice.

Perhaps it's different where you live, but for every forward thinking individual in Kansas, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of probably three to five people who are not ready to live without the game (got carried away there). That ratio is even more stunning in third-world countries, where people have not even learned to play the game yet, are have only recently learned it.

I'm checking out Buddhism at the moment, and I've got to say it really works. Appreciating the "feeling of being" just feels really really good. And learning to be mindful has helped me loads with anxiety and "social awkwardness". I think Western culture is too individualistic. It emphasizes rigid expectations (the self) that doesn't hold up in reality.

Yeah, feeling-awareness practice is great. It seems absurd to just sit and do "nothing" until you actually try it. Turns out the bodymind is a much nicer place to live than the ego. Yet I keep getting sucked back in...

The whole fear of expectations folds back onto itself. One wants to escape from societal expectations and makes a lot of effort to be "oneself". Then, when that person finds that they are fulfilling social expectations, there is a contradiction between their actions and their self-identity as a person who has escaped from societal expectations - they've failed to meet their own expectations. The only way out of it is to not take expectations so seriously, to consider something for what it is, not what it's supposed to be.

In other words, once we recognize that the ego is an abstraction, we no longer have to keep building it up and building it up trying to make it seem real. We can then use it where necessary and appropriate without getting tied in knots.

Also, there is no Eastern culture. All culture is Western culture. I'm not Chinese in China, but even if I was I'd have to "rediscover" the traditions. *shrugs* Western culture is taking hold all over the world.

Sometimes I think the hope for the world's future lies with China. The Confucian system is one of the most workable patterns of social convention, and the stability that they derived from it allowed them to incorporate the experience of Emptiness in a healthy, positive way when it arrived from India (and thus the Tao was born).


So it seems to me that the Chinese are in the best possible position, historically speaking, to avoid the being totally dominated by Flatland like the West. Though I am by no means intimately familiar with every sociocultural system in the world.

 

[shortsboy]

You romanticize oriental culture way too much without actually understanding it.

You're right, I used the wrong verb tense. Eastern culture was different once. But over the last century or so, it has become Westernized and has contracted the same disease of insanity.

It's a very western-centric view to think Western culture has eroded Asian culture. It's just not true. Oriental culture has been hierarchical and dominated by a social class system for as long as history.

Sometimes I think the hope for the world's future lies with China. The Confucian system is one of the most workable patterns of social convention, and the stability that they derived from it allowed them to incorporate the experience of Emptiness in a healthy, positive way when it arrived from India (and thus the Tao was born).


So it seems to me that the Chinese are in the best possible position, historically speaking, to avoid the being totally dominated by Flatland like the West. Though I am by no means intimately familiar with every sociocultural system in the world.

Confucism is also a hierarchical social class system where your profession dictates how high you are in society (four occupations) and the higher social class has the right to rule over the lower. It continues today, except now it's the nongminggong class that serves the ruling classes.

EDIT: India is more severe. With a strict caste system

 

[Tek]

You romanticize oriental culture way too much without actually understanding it.



It's a very western-centric view to think Western culture has eroded Asian culture. It's just not true. Oriental culture has been hierarchical and dominated by a social class system for as long as history.



Confucism is also a hierarchical social class system where your profession dictates how high you are in society (four occupations) and the higher social class has the right to rule over the lower. It continues today, except now it's the nongminggong class that serves the ruling classes.

EDIT: India is more severe. With a strict caste system

Of course the East has its own issues. But honestly it's completely beside the point. Even if you drop the comparison to Oriental culture, all of my arguments about Western thought still stand. It still makes no sense to chase after satisfaction, which is what this conversation is really about.

 

[BadPokemon]

We can certainly learn from Jesus' example!

Jesus spent forty days in the desert learning to rise above his selfish ego desires. He died to the little ego-self so that the True Self could shine through, which is really the only way to get rid of selfishness... even seeking salvation through Christ is a selfishly-motivated attempt to save one's own skin. This was Jesus' first step, the second was to say "Thy will be done," and thus start to think about what was good for everybody instead of thinking about what was good only for himself.

The ego-self is a bundle of ideas and carefully chosen memories; it is a wall of defense around a wall of defense around nothing. When we mistake this little self for our True Self, we are doomed to constant seeking, ceaseless grasping, endless suffering.




We can learn from Jesus' example, and be a Christ as he was. He hoped very much that we would, when he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane, saying "As you, Abba, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us... so that they may be one, as we are one, I am in them and you are in me."


These also are the words of the Boddhisatva Gautama, a Christ just like Jesus, when he proclaimed "Suffering alone exists, none who suffer." The little ego-self is the source of grasping, which leads to suffering. And since the ego is simply an idea, a mental abstraction, then in concrete fact there is no separate individual who can suffer.

The difference is that Jesus is the only "leader" of a religion, so to speak, to claim to be God (which he was). Jesus knew how to be selfish and led a perfect life. He was fully God and fully human. As a human, he faced temptations just like us. Except, he never sinned. He didn't need to learn how to be unselfish. And I agree with you that Jesus is a great example, and he is, but he is also the ultimate example.

 

[Sopheria]

And we say, "Well of course you've got to! Do you want to just be a nobody?" We make it so that being "nobody" is one of the ugliest, most shameful things a person can do. Yet Oriental cultures have the utmost respect for what they call the "mountain hermits." The hermit is one who has played the game, and has seen through it.


The hermit knows that while the striving, the codes of conduct, and all other manner of social agreements do have some merit in the way of dignity and order, they are ultimately empty and without substance. He finds his fulfillment not from the vicious circle of "success" that requires one to go on succeeding, endlessly, but from the simple feeling of being. Thus, he retreats into the mountains, builds a small hut out of straw, and lives out his life playing with the bugs and fallen leaves.


This is, of course, a caricature of the liberated person. But the point is that not only do Eastern cultures have no uneasiness or confusion about such a person, they actively embrace him! In that culture, the hermit is living out the ultimate goal of all people, which is simply to find happiness and fulfillment in the present moment, regardless of circumstance.

"Oriental cultures"? Does this actually represent a predominant attitude in all East Asian countries? Or is this just a few groups of people? If the latter, then what you're talking about is a subculture, and you can find a subculture for almost anything. Like shortsboy said, you're romanticizing a bit too much. Eastern society is just as status-driven and consumerism oriented as the West--in some places even more so than the West.

Anyways, I think people should do whatever makes them happy. If someone would be happier not pursuing "excellence" as its traditionally understood, then by all means they should do that. It's not like anyone can stop you, it's your life, after all.

 

[twocows]

I think it requires a balance. Preparing for the future is a good thing, but you don't want to spend your entire life on it, especially when it's so fluid. Likewise, living in the present is a good thing unless done so excessively it puts your future in jeopardy.

Enjoy the moment, but don't get lost in it. There are (hopefully) more of them to come.