The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

[Entermaid]

Gender: Most certainly male as well as my biological sex.

Sexuality: Most certainly homosexual. Preferably males that are fairly masculine. That is a point of contention with myself and other gay men. Many act as if I am judgmental or that my standards are too high if I decline anything that could be defined as a date if I am not attracted to them because of their femininity, despite the fact that I will be friends with anyone, regardless of gender or sexuality, if we get along.

Another point of contention is physical intimacy. It WILL NOT happen unless their is a substantive relationship built unless you are Chris Hemsworth. I am very particular and traditional (well, as traditional as a gay person can be) when it comes to dating. I don't condemn others for being free with their sexuality, but I sure do get a lot of flack for being being too prudent.

What I like to do; what I am doing: Guys.
I am an outdoorsy guy, so right now I have been enjoying taking a break from studying and taking advantage of the GREAT summer weather. Though, I am planning on hitting the books for the GRE shortly; hopefully I do well on it so I can have my choice of grad schools after finishing up my last year of school. Then I can get out of this isolated, rural, and backward town and move on to greater things.

Thanks for the questions, now I have a quasi-proper introduction.

 

[FenrirDarkWolf]

Gender: Most certainly male as well as my biological sex.

Sexuality: Most certainly homosexual. Preferably males that are fairly masculine. That is a point of contention with myself and other gay men. Many act as if I am judgmental or that my standards are too high if I decline anything that could be defined as a date if I am not attracted to them because of their femininity, despite the fact that I will be friends with anyone, regardless of gender or sexuality, if we get along.

Another point of contention is physical intimacy. It WILL NOT happen unless their is a substantive relationship built unless you are Chris Hemsworth. I am very particular and traditional (well, as traditional as a gay person can be) when it comes to dating. I don't condemn others for being free with their sexuality, but I sure do get a lot of flack for being being too prudent.

What I like to do; what I am doing: Guys.
I am an outdoorsy guy, so right now I have been enjoying taking a break from studying and taking advantage of the GREAT summer weather. Though, I am planning on hitting the books for the GRE shortly; hopefully I do well on it so I can have my choice of grad schools after finishing up my last year of school. Then I can get out of this isolated, rural, and backward town and move on to greater things.

Thanks for the questions, now I have a quasi-proper introduction.

I do have to agree with you. I don't like people that are overly feminine.
But I have a boyfriend, and I'm happy. :3

I'm still a little miffed that he can't visit me this summer though. >:(

 

[Snow Phoenix]

Sorry if I'm deterring from any important conversation, but I had something on my mind that was club-related.

My university campus is very queer friendly and I love that. We have many events on campus from an LGBT friendly video gaming club (we're a sausage fest every meet though) to a gender and sexuality center. However, I noticed that most of the queer people who attended these events were quite similar. I didn't feel that the events represented the full spectrum of queer people (although, the organizations were more than accepting of all people). More specifically, I guess I'm talking about folks like myself. I've recently come to realize that I best fit into the "bear" category of gay men, but I rarely find other men like me unless I go to specialty events. So it made me wonder...

Are there other groups like that in which it's a bit more rare to find at your average "gay bar (essentially I mean a place in which a safe queer environment is established and people flock to it)?" Does the queer community have these sort of cliques in actuality? It does make sense for similar people to group with similar people after all. Should the queer community have more cohesion past removing the prejudice that some queer people have against other queer people (by this I'm referring to transphobia and bisexual invisibility)?

 

[Inkblots]

I do have to agree with you. I don't like people that are overly feminine.

I have to agree as well, though in a slightly different sense. People who act too stereotypically girly (screaming over everything, obsessing over looks, etc.) drive me crazy.

I've recently come to realize that I best fit into the "bear" category of gay men, but I rarely find other men like me unless I go to specialty events.

I'm just curious, can you explain what you mean there? I've just never come across the term "bear" in this context.

 

[FenrirDarkWolf]

I'm just curious, can you explain what you mean there? I've just never come across the term "bear" in this context.

Ohh! Sorry if I'm stealing any thunder, but I know this one!

If what the internet has told me is correct, than a "bear" is terms of LGBT, is usually a larger man. Usually either muscular or fat, and usually kinda hairy. Essentially, he is a gay man who looks like a man, so to so.

Is that correct Snow Phoenix? You know the internet can lie.

 

[Alice]

I have to agree as well, though in a slightly different sense. People who act too stereotypically girly (screaming over everything, obsessing over looks, etc.) drive me crazy.



I'm just curious, can you explain what you mean there? I've just never come across the term "bear" in this context.

A bear in this sense is a gay man who's large and hairy. Think lumberjacks.

Ohh! Sorry if I'm stealing any thunder, but I know this one!

If what the internet has told me is correct, than a "bear" is terms of LGBT, is usually a larger man. Usually either muscular or fat, and usually kinda hairy. Essentially, he is a gay man who looks like a man, so to so.

Is that correct Snow Phoenix? You know the internet can lie.

Edit: Didn't even see this post. Sorry for double answering. lol

Should the queer community have more cohesion past removing the prejudice that some queer people have against other queer people (by this I'm referring to transphobia and bisexual invisibility)?

I've never really been part of any community other than this one, so I can't say I have much experience... but I was surprised to see how prevalent things like transphobia are in the community. I just don't understand how someone who has faced so much discrimination can turn around and discriminate against someone else for the same reasons. I mean there are even gay people I know of in this club that are transphobic and don't believe in bisexuality and what not.

 

[Melody]

I've never really been part of any community other than this one, so I can't say I have much experience... but I was surprised to see how prevalent things like transphobia are in the community. I just don't understand how someone who has faced so much discrimination can t rn around and discriminate against someone else for the same reasons. I mean there are even gay people I know of in this club that are transphobic and don't believe in bisexuality and what not.

Yeah, I can attest to the transphobia that is here on PC, I've dealt with it before. :<

Not a fun thing to deal with, and it's not always overt or obvious in forum posts, because people usually don't say hurtful things like that directly or overtly on here because they'd be in trouble.

 

[Somniac]

Think lumberjacks.

I tried my best but this is the only image I can conjure when I think of lumberjacks.
I must be broken.

 

[Inkblots]

I tried my best but this is the only image I can conjure when I think of lumberjacks.
I must be broken.

Hahaha, excuse me while I die of laughter XD

Thank guys, "lumberjack" is actually the first thing that popped into my head (okay, I lie, the first thing that popped into my head was actually Sig Curtis from Full Metal Alchemist, but "lumberjack" was a close second), but I didn't want to make any assumptions :)

 

[Alice]

I tried my best but this is the only image I can conjure when I think of lumberjacks.
I must be broken.

I have to admit, I like this lumberjack quite a bit more than normal. lol

 

[Snow Phoenix]

Yeah, I can attest to the transphobia that is here on PC, I've dealt with it before. :<

Not a fun thing to deal with, and it's not always overt or obvious in forum posts, because people usually don't say hurtful things like that directly or overtly on here because they'd be in trouble.

I'm a bit surprised to find out that there's a bit of transphobia here on PC since I always think of PC as being a very accepting place to some degree (there are pretty much just a lot of bigot haters and that's it). I'll also admit that I haven't seen as much transphobia on my campus except from some conservative friends of whom just get freaked out by trans people (they barely accept me, but they're making progress slowly -.-). I dated a trans man once and from what he told me, he gets a lot of hate on for being biologically female yet "playing in a gay man's world." I learned that I really couldn't get past the vag after all and I thought that it shouldn't matter if he was biologically female or not. If a gay man is sexually not attracted to a vagina and boobs and that can't be overlooked, then it shouldn't matter if he were biologically female since he wouldn't attract those men in the first place o.o I actually want to date a trans woman. I just feel a little bad since its mostly to learn more about myself.

Yeah. The coined image of a "bear" would be a lumberjack o.o I'm 6'5" and pretty burly. I also wrestle quite a bit from taking Judo and Jiujitsu (I actually met my last boyfriend from Judo :3 It was fun flipping each other over. Literally). Pretty much it's that whole opposite spectrum of what most people stereotype gay people as being (of which I detest that stereotype so much since it doesn't accurately sum up the gay community at all =.=). The two marking characteristics are the hair and size, however, "chubs" (bigger men who aren't hairy) are also lumped into the community quite often. There are also many sub classifications based on a variety of sub characteristics such as ethnicity, degrees of hair, presence of a lot of muscles, age, and so on. For instance a "Panda Bear" is typically just an Asian male remotely close to the typical definition of bear since by nature (and some probably some culture influence) Asians have less hair and lower builds (there are a lot of muscular Asians though who would probably just associate themselves as being "athletic" though). Another example would be the muscle bear of whom typically has the hair, but has a muscular build as opposed to a more stocky build. It's all variable though since the classification is all superficial anyways. A hairy muscular man might just associate himself with just being a muscular guy as opposed to being a muscle bear for instance.

 

[Maruno]

It's certainly true that some gay people see bisexuality as a non-thing, and who think that people who say they're bi are just indecisive and need to choose one end of the spectrum to sit on. Complete nonsense, of course, but having a binary state does make things simpler to work with.

The only downside is that sexuality is absolutely not binary, nor even a sliding scale. There's so many aspects to attraction, including physical, emotional, romantic and sexual (just off the top of my head), and while the answers to each of these tend to be similar, they are each a spectrum in themselves and can vary a lot... and probably do in many people who, if pushed to be honest, might call themselves bi-curious. That's why labels (mentioned recently) aren't great for anything other than the extreme (fully gay/straight) cases, and that's why my first question upon someone labelling themselves will be to clarify what they actually mean.

I tried my best but this is the only image I can conjure when I think of lumberjacks.
I must be broken.

Definitely. The first and only thing you should think of when you think of lumberjacks is this:



It's also appropriate for this thread!

 

[Entermaid]

Yeah, I can attest to the transphobia that is here on PC, I've dealt with it before. :<

Not a fun thing to deal with, and it's not always overt or obvious in forum posts, because people usually don't say hurtful things like that directly or overtly on here because they'd be in trouble.

I don't want to be that person, but maybe you're just over-analyzing posts. I know being a sexual minority, we are quick to assume the worst of people since we do get a lot of flack, but perhaps since these remarks are indirect or nuanced inferences, they truly might not be transphobic or come from a malicious place, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that some of these comments may have been made in spite.

This reminds me of a discussion from class this Fall.

In one of my classes we were talking about media and its affects on culture and political ideology, etc. I chimed in on another classmate's remark about Lady Gaga, and explicated her exploitation of the LGBT community to serve her pursuits of fame and wealth. In doing so, she created masses of little monsters that she can essentially program, that are encouraged to be lethal cyber-bullies (despite claims of anti-bullying) while simultaneously learning the skills of self-victimization which only adds fuel to any latent suicidal tendencies. These kids are impressionable and don't have many role models to look up to, thus are much easier to exploit than heterosexual children, these kids and society as a whole would be better served by someone who doesn't glorify drug use, club-sex, anti-authoritarianism, victimization, and cyber-bullying just to make a quick buck and build her own market. I could go on, but...

Anyway, the guy in my class responded irately, "Well, I am gay, and I think you would feel differently about her if you were gay. 'Normal' people just look down on us. I have had a very tough life because of being gay and she (Lady Gaga) pulled me through it. I am not a victim to people like you that are homophobic and backward. And you know what, I like drugs and sex, it's my choice, we (as in all gay people) are not hurting anyone when we go to clubs and hookup."

I was like...case in point. First, you are victimizing yourself when I never made a single homophobic remark. (funny he didn't know I was gay) Second, given that you were exposed to her as your only idol almost as if a "savior" of your life; therefore, you have not "chosen" to endorse your lifestyle, she in fact, indoctrinated you. Third, you are more prone to excessive drinking and therefore unsafe sex while clubbing. Consequently, the medical expenses of society for your behavior make private behavior a public concern. Fourth, you are making assumptions of all gay people, implying an inherent affinity toward an action, which was a coding that society negatively perpetuates, yet you yourself are perpetuating that stereotype.

I know this is just an anecdote. Generally, not specifically in your case Pachy, minority groups, especially LGBT, are quick to play a victim card or assume that some people are homophobic/transphobic without justification. That is why I am not found of many of the outspoken and boisterous gay advocacy groups, because they cause unintended products.

 

[Inkblots]

I don't get the discrimination within the community either :/ you would think the LGBTQ community would be one of the most open communities you could ever come across. I will fully admit to not always understanding some orientations. The biggest for me is pansexuality. I understand that there is a difference between pan and bi, but I can't wrap my head around what that difference is no matter how many times it gets explained. That said, I completely accept that pansexuality exists even if I don't really "get it," and will still respect them as much as everyone else.

 

[Entermaid]

I don't get the discrimination within the community either :/ you would think the LGBTQ community would be one of the most open communities you could ever come across. I will fully admit to not always understanding some orientations. The biggest for me is pansexuality. I understand that there is a difference between pan and bi, but I can't wrap my head around what that difference is no matter how many times it gets explained. That said, I completely accept that pansexuality exists even if I don't really "get it," and will still respect them as much as everyone else.

I'll help ya.

Bisexual implies that there are two genders, Male and Female, one is sexually attracted to both.
(Sometimes transgenders or transexuals are excluded from this group.)

Some people do not consider themselves either male or female, which brings us to:

Pansexual (Pan=all), implies that there are more than two gender identities and that one is sexually attracted to men, women, transgender, or any variance of gender identity.

Often people, including self-proclaimed pansexuals, confuse pansexual and panromantic.

Panromantics are romantically attracted, not sexually attracted, to all people regardless of sexuality or gender-id. For me, this one is probably the most puzzling, because it becomes a choice at this point.

 

[Melody]

I don't want to be that person, but maybe you're just over-analyzing posts. I know being a sexual minority, we are quick to assume the worst of people since we do get a lot of flack, but perhaps since these remarks are indirect or nuanced inferences, they truly might not be transphobic or come from a malicious place, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that some of these comments may have been made in spite.

No, I'm pretty sure you're drawing conclusions from thin air here. I've actually experienced actual transphobia here from members of this forum off and on the board. I do not wish to name names, or instances of it though, since it is the past, nor do I wish to stir up drama I've long since moved past. While it hasn't been recently, it has occurred before.

 

[Esper]

Wow. There's a lot of interesting discussion going on here all of a sudden.

Anecdote: My close friend is gay and recently he's said he misses spending time with other gays. (In our circle of friends he's the only gay guy.) From things he's said, from other bits and pieces I've scraped together it seems like gay men have and like and want to keep a specific "gays only" sphere under the feeling that on some level no one else can understand them.

All my understanding about this group is second-hand or from observations I make as an outsider, but it does seem to have a unique kind of "boys club" mentality. I think the problem with it isn't necessarily outright hostility or hatred, but more a lack of exposure to anything dealing with women. A kind of echo chamber of maleness. Bi people, trans people, straight people - all of them have lives that typically include women or women's perspectives in one sense or another. Since gay men typically are the face of the gay community (women are a big part, of course, but they get overlooked more often) it's their views that filter out among the people, I think, and give the "gay community" this feeling of being hostile to bi/trans/etc people within its own ranks. I mean, if you looked over the people in this club here I bet you'd find that well over 50% are gay guys.

Strangely, it doesn't really seem to work the other way around with lesbian circles because we still live in straight male society so women can't really escape that to some separate space the way gay men can. Straight men will keep trying to assert themselves in women's business so even gay girls are interacting with men fairly often.

 

[Somniac]

I've experienced the issue of people being opposed to the idea of bisexuality myself. By that I mean, they basically couldn't believe that I was bi, and kept asking me if i was 'straight or not'.

To anyone who holds that point of view I put it to you; I'm both sexually and romantically attracted to both males and females. I wouldn't class myself with any sort of gender-identification other than I'm female, in a female body, meaning that I couldn't be classed as having some soft of gender confusion. So the only word that fits is bisexual.

IDK, it seems odd to me that people are so opposed to the idea of bisexual. I've heard the argument that people simply want 'confirmation of what gender I'm attracted to' but it's a simple as 'both'.

Saying that the word bisexual implies that the person doesn't accept the fact that there are more than two genders [male and female, rather than male, female, trans, and so on] is wrong, at least in my mind.

I totally accept that there are multitudes of gender identities, but I simply haven't the experience to say whether i'm attracted to them. I mean, if you've never eaten cabbage, you can;t really tell someone whether you like cabbage or not, right?

I'm attracted to men and women, romantically and sexually, and that make me bisexual in my mind.

 

[Inkblots]

I'll help ya.

Bisexual implies that there are two genders, Male and Female, one is sexually attracted to both.
(Sometimes transgenders or transexuals are excluded from this group.)

Some people do not consider themselves either male or female, which brings us to:

Pansexual (Pan=all), implies that there are more than two gender identities and that one is sexually attracted to men, women, transgender, or any variance of gender identity.

Often people, including self-proclaimed pansexuals, confuse pansexual and panromantic.

Panromantics are romantically attracted, not sexually attracted, to all people regardless of sexuality or gender-id. For me, this one is probably the most puzzling, because it becomes a choice at this point.

Haha, thank you for trying, but see, I should have explained a little better. I understand from an intellectual viewpoint the differences in the definitions of pansexual vs bisexual, but I have a lot of difficulty understanding past that... I don't know, it's hard to put into words what exactly it is that stumps me. I guess just... I don't know, I don't understand why a bisexual person wouldn't be attracted to a transgendered person? And that even though there are plenty of people who fall on the spectrum between male/female, most of those people are closer to one than the other, at least in terms of how they appear to others, and... I don't know, I'm not explaining this very well. I have difficulty understanding the whole attraction thing to begin with on anything deeper than a surface intellectual level, so... yeah, I'm just gonna awkwardly sidle on out of this post now... >_>

 

[Entermaid]

Wow. There's a lot of interesting discussion going on here all of a sudden.

Anecdote: My close friend is gay and recently he's said he misses spending time with other gays. (In our circle of friends he's the only gay guy.) From things he's said, from other bits and pieces I've scraped together it seems like gay men have and like and want to keep a specific "gays only" sphere under the feeling that on some level no one else can understand them.

All my understanding about this group is second-hand or from observations I make as an outsider, but it does seem to have a unique kind of "boys club" mentality. I think the problem with it isn't necessarily outright hostility or hatred, but more a lack of exposure to anything dealing with women. A kind of echo chamber of maleness. Bi people, trans people, straight people - all of them have lives that typically include women or women's perspectives in one sense or another. Since gay men typically are the face of the gay community (women are a big part, of course, but they get overlooked more often) it's their views that filter out among the people, I think, and give the "gay community" this feeling of being hostile to bi/trans/etc people within its own ranks. I mean, if you looked over the people in this club here I bet you'd find that well over 50% are gay guys.

Strangely, it doesn't really seem to work the other way around with lesbian circles because we still live in straight male society so women can't really escape that to some separate space the way gay men can. Straight men will keep trying to assert themselves in women's business so even gay girls are interacting with men fairly often.

Don't worry, you're not the only one whose noticed this.

I definitely see the whole "boys club" mentality in cliques. I don't have many gay friends, urm, if any, but of those I am acquainted with there are distinct characteristics they all share among groups. It's a more extreme version of, I guess, any group mentality. For instance, straight women usually bond with other straight women that share the same characteristics; yet, they are more willing to place stress on the characteristics of the group such as interests or appearance/style rather than sexuality, as it seems like straight women are more apt to include lesbian women than straight men include gay men in their inner circles. And, both heterosexual men and women naturally gravitate toward each other, even as friends and groups - yet usually their are sex-specific groups within these groups. Ultimately though, there seems to be a bit more overlap than gay-male groups.

My experience has been the gay guy of the group, when I hang with either straight men or women, usually both simultaneously. So, there is an isolation there, a feeling of uniqueness to the group dynamic though a feeling of not belonging. I do see the attractiveness of being friends with similar gay men because one might feel more cohesive with the group, but I wouldn't want to be pigeon-holed into one specific "type". (I wonder what my gay classification I would even be? lol ) Ultimately, it would be nice to have some friends of both straight and gay, but I imagine it would be strenuous to coalesce the two; they would most likely be separate circles. Maybe this is different in more urbanized areas.

@ Pachy, didn't mean to offend you, I was just making the point, not certain conclusion, that making inferences of hate and ignorance can be unproductive if we are not 100% sure where the remark is coming from given that the posts were not obviously or overtly transphobic as stated. Didn't mean to sound like I was on my high-horse; sometimes I too unconsciously make inferences that someone is homophobic based on a remark, but I try to employ a bit of due diligence before I assume anyone is being hateful. I mean, I make blatant "gay" jokes from time to time, and I know that I am certainly not homophobic or hateful of gays. A lot of the friends I have now, I have thought at some point in time as I was getting to know them that they had something against gay people.