The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

Shining Raichu said:
Welcome, fango pango!

Now...





Wow. If it's not OK to rage against religion in an LGBT Club, then where is it OK? I thought these were my people...

What makes this different is that homosexuality is not a choice, whereas religion is. To oppress us is OK, but to hate them for it is hypocritical? Unlike them, it's not as though my hating does anything; it's harmless. It oppresses noone. This is what I mean, religion gets far too much of a free ride from everybody simply because it is religion.

QuilavaKing, your comments in particular were as upsetting as they were unfair.
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Well, at the very least you shouldn't bash religion as a whole. However, it could be considered negotiable to retaliate towards a specific person who directly bashed you.

And as far as your hating not hurting anyone, that's totally untrue. Everyone has the right to believe as they choose, so hating on someone for being religious can definitely hurt someone.
 
First of all, I should probably join this..

Secondly,

Shining Raichu said:
Welcome, fango pango!

Wow. If it's not OK to rage against religion in an LGBT Club, then where is it OK? I thought these were my people...

What makes this different is that homosexuality is not a choice, whereas religion is. To oppress us is OK, but to hate them for it is hypocritical? Unlike them, it's not as though my hating does anything; it's harmless. It oppresses noone. This is what I mean, religion gets far too much of a free ride from everybody simply because it is religion.

QuilavaKing, your comments in particular were as upsetting as they were unfair.
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An LGBT club is NOT an anti-religious group. As a bi-Chrisitian, I feel disagree with you completely, just because SOME sections of certain religious groups "hate" on the LGBT community, DOES NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM give you a free pass to return that.

The LGBT community has experienced incredibly widespread prejudice and hate for centuries, if any community in the world should know better than to retaliate with hate, then it is us.

Also, on your point that religion is a "choice", I disgree, religion is as much a way of life as being homosexual is for people who are part of it. I mean, you could always choose not to have homosexual sex (even if being gay isn't a choice)? My point is, I don't think that it is a valid line of argument. Being gay doesn't trump religion, neither does being religious trump being gay: we have to learn to be more tolerant instead of jostling for position.
 
Welcome, Rossay! I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, you might find some responses in the post below.

Alternative said:
While you may be right, about religion being a choice, and being gay isn't, still what makes you think that you're allowed to bully someone because of how they feel? It's more of a general bullying case for me moreso than anything. You shouldn't be allowed to do that just because they do it back. Whether it's a lifestyle choice or not, you shouldn't be discriminating against anyone, just because they're different. Saying it's okay for people in the LGBT club to bash on religious people who think gays should be condemned is like saying people of a different race are allowed to pick on fat people because being fat is a choice, and being a certain race isn't.

tl;dr Bullying and discrimination rights work both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated.
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First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.

I'm not discriminating against anyone, and I'm certainly not a bully. I'm not hating on a group of people. The term 'religion' is a blanket term because quite frankly specifying the exact kind of people I'm talking about every time I talk about them would be exhausting. I'm not raging against anyone for being religious or believing in God, because I know that not all of these people are hating on me. I'm hating on the specific ones that are of the belief that homosexuality is wrong. I figured that would be implied, this being a thread on the subject of homosexuality.

And you know what? I'm entitled to that. I'm entitled to be angry and to express that here of all places, and I resent any implication otherwise. At no time will you ever see me attack any aspect of religion other than its oppressive side, because outside of that, I have no problems with it.
 
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Shining Raichu said:
First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.
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Yes it is. That's the point I'm trying to make, that gays bashing on religious people who think your morals are wrong is the same. It's like saying a gay person, or someone of a different race or something else which isn't a choice is allowed to make fun of a fat person because that lifestyle is a choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.
 
Alternative said:
What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.
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To be fair, if you've spent any time around Shining Raichu, you'd know that his opinion extends as far as the religion itself, and not to the people who practice it. He's not afraid to share his views on the religion's doctrine, but he'd never ever insult the people practicing it personally unless they were specifically telling him that his lifestyle is wrong/unnatural/whatever excuse they come up with.
 
Alternative said:

Yes it is. That's the point I'm trying to make, that gays bashing on religious people who think your morals are wrong is the same. It's like saying a gay person, or someone of a different race or something else which isn't a choice is allowed to make fun of a fat person because that lifestyle is a choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.
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In essence, I'm discriminating against discrimination. Or at least the institution I believe perpetuates it.

I would rather not be like this. I would prefer to just be able to get married or do whatever I want and be left alone. But that's not possible, and I get to be angry at the people responsible for that. I'm not sure where I'm losing you on this point. I'm not treating anybody like crap. All I said was that I have the right to hate the people who hurt me. I haven't even said anything bad about them yet, just that I - we - have the right to. Shouldn't people wait until I actually say something against religion before they begin to lynch me?
 
Shining Raichu said:
Welcome, Rossay! I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, you might find some responses in the post below.



First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.

I'm not discriminating against anyone, and I'm certainly not a bully. I'm not hating on a group of people. The term 'religion' is a blanket term because quite frankly specifying the exact kind of people I'm talking about every time I talk about them would be exhausting. I'm not raging against anyone for being religious or believing in God, because I know that not all of these people are hating on me. I'm hating on the specific ones that are of the belief that homosexuality is wrong. I figured that would be implied, this being a thread on the subject of homosexuality.

And you know what? I'm entitled to that. I'm entitled to be angry and to express that here of all places, and I resent any implication otherwise. At no time will you ever see me attack any aspect of religion other than its oppressive side, because outside of that, I have no problems with it.
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Well, I personally don't believe being fat is always a choice, but that's another topic.

And you're right. You are entitled to your freedom of speech. Just my personal opinion is it is almost always wrong to counter hatred with more hatred. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's a cliche, but it's true.
 
Alternative said:

Yes it is. That's the point I'm trying to make, that gays bashing on religious people who think your morals are wrong is the same. It's like saying a gay person, or someone of a different race or something else which isn't a choice is allowed to make fun of a fat person because that lifestyle is a choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.
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I think if someone is going to come up to me and say that gay monogamy is a myth, or that homosexuals are going to hell, I have every right to scrutinize that belief. But I would be stooping to their level if I stated that straight monogamy is a myth, or that heterosexuals are going to hell. It is not malicious to point out that their "belief" falsely attacks who I am. Going with the "fat" example. If someone called me fat, I think that I should be able to scrutinize that personal attack, but I would be stooping to their level if I said that they had a big nose, or any other physical flaw. All in all, if someone dislikes you purely based off race, sexual identity, or appearance, you have ever right to scrutinize the verbal attack as bigotry. If I were to call out someone on their statements of bigotry and discrimination against me or anyone else, I would not be reciprocating the same level of disrespect they showed me.

For instance, take gay marriage. If someone believes that I should not be able to marry, and they advocate against me marrying, then they are trampling on my rights. If I tell them that trampling on my rights is wrong and ignorant, then I am simply defending myself. It would be a whole other story if I were to state that heterosexuals should not be married and I reciprocated by trampling upon their individual rights. But there is nothing wrong with protecting your own rights when someone wants to take or keep them away from you.
 
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@Shining Raichu, thanks for the welcome! :).

I'm not sure I totally agree with the comparison between fat people & gay people -- but I do see the point that we shouldn't be prejudiced.

I think that if we, as a community, when faced with prejudice, are able to "turn the other cheek" then we show a great deal of maturity & tolerance that the general public (the people who you need to win over if you want to get gay marriage voted for) respect that a lot.


Also, not sure if this has been debated before but:

What is the community's opinion on people who are stereotypically gay? i.e. flamboyant, camp etc.
&& Also, do you think flamboyancy and 'Pride' events have a place in the current campaign for equal rights?

 
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Well, if someone walks up to you and starts making fun of you because you're gay, then you have every right to retaliate, but in the case of religion as a whole, I believe we should try to be the better man, and show them that we're good people, rather than fighting back, and showing them that we're their enemy.


What is the community's opinion on people who are stereotypically gay? i.e. flamboyant, camp etc.
Well, I don't find it attractive myself, but that's who they are, and I have no problem with it.
 
TornZero said:

Oral sex is included under the "sodomy" range, and both involved sexes are very capable of it, not just two men. Unless they're trying to specifically refer "sodomy" to "penile insertion", in which male-female relations are capable of, too.

Basically: Nebraska's screwed up in pretty much saying, "Teen girls getting it on is fine, but teen guys have to wait, just because we say so."
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Sodomy is whatever Nevada legislstes it to mean. It means only anal there.
 
What is the community's opinion on people who are stereotypically gay? i.e. flamboyant, camp etc.

Ihonestly find it a bit funny to see someone who is stereotypically gay. My friend is actually one of your "stereotypical" and "flamboyant" gays. But, I've known him for his whole life, so he's still my friend.
 
I have to admit, I kind of am a stereotypical gay person in that my voice is high and I like fashion.

I think it's not bad, but it's annoying when people automatically assume that you act or behave a certain way just because of your sexuality and it boxes people into how they think they should act.
 
Jubilation said:
I have to admit, I kind of am a stereotypical gay person in that my voice is high and I like fashion.

I think it's not bad, but it's annoying when people automatically assume that you act or behave a certain way just because of your sexuality and it boxes people into how they think they should act.
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Because that how gays are portrayed in the media. But you have to remember that all stereotypes are based off of fact very loosely. To be honest, Gay stereotypes portray some gays, while it doesn't portray others.
 
Hey, you forgot to add me as a member! lol
 
Aww, you didn't add me. D:


Well, I told my mom... (Or rather, she asked me and I awkwardly nodded.) and it didn't even phase her. She spent like an hour talking about God, and said she'd pray for me etc etc.
 
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