#thepokecommunity

[Gonzo]

Gimme dat gold star!


Well, I've been there once, and I've heard rude jokes about my nationality of which I'm very proud, so I just got hell outta there and not coming back at all. Before I actually joined the conversation, I had a major problem with joining it (had to wait until they switch the topic). I think many people can have the problem with bandwagoning conversations.

 

[Meganium]

I stopped joining #tpc because of the rudeness and the arrogance of some members towards the new ones. I always wanted to welcome some of the new members as well as assist them in any questions (such as ROM Hacking and GD) but nope! Other members just have to scare them off by being rude. I tried being a regular back then, but I just couldn't take the rudeness and the unwelcoming behavior.

 

[curiousnathan]

We're not trying to exclude or ignore people, but we can't drop everything and cuddle you to make you feel welcome, either. You have to persist a little, make yourself heard. That's what I did, it really wasn't that hard. We try to include people in the conversation but you have to meet us halfway. You have to give us something to work with.

The most pressing problem though is that the people posting in this thread have clearly already made up their minds about the channel and have resolved not to come back. If you don't want to give it another chance, don't, that's fine; but never let it be said that we didn't try to fix the problem. I'm not going to feel guilty about this anymore.

It's understandable that you can't drop everything and make people feel welcome, but many people persist, I've persisted to involve myself into the conversation, I took interest in what others had to say, but noone cared; and when the time came when I chattered, people would often throw off smart remarks or again, ignore me. It's not like I or others have been ignored once, and then we feel excluded; the reason we feel this way is because most of the time when we get on there and this is the case. Plus really, it only takes less than 4 seconds to type the word 'Hi' into the chat; which really isn't a mammoth ask.

And yeah, we've made up our minds. I don't see a reason in wanting to come back, if we've "given you something to work with", and then for it to then be thrown back in our faces several times. It's good that the problem is getting fixed, but it's too late for some people.

My point is if someone really wants to be included amongst the regulars in #tpc then they should stop feeling intimidated and join in with the regulars. I managed it, and I've seen others manage it to. But crucially it has to be at the right time of day when the right group of people are online - i.e. the friendly, welcoming and completely crazy group who just talk about anything and everything and have a lot of fun (hugs to you guys, you know who you are) - and try to avoid the times when the 'other' group of people are online - i.e. the *****y and quite frankly immature lot that bully new users and don't seem to understand the true concept of fun.

But the problem is, it shouldn't be like that. New members shouldn't have to schedule a time, and pin-point a moment where the friendly members are on so they feel welcome. They should be welcomed at any time, regardless of who is on. They should be welcomed not based on who is online, but because it's the right thing to do.

And I'm not saying this can be the case. Have everyone be happy and welcoming, but it should be more of a focus than all the gossip, and maintaining a social heirarchy.

It's a little frustrating because I want new people to join but at the same time I feel like for a new person to feel welcome takes monumental amounts of effort on my part, to constantly pay attention to irc and talk even when I don't feel like it (so they don't feel ignored if it's been dead for 5 hours and they try to join and talk) and interrupt my ongoing conversation to personally reply to everything they say etc etc, for anyone that tries to join. It seems like new members see the people that chat in the room as robots programmed to make them feel welcome instead of people with things they want out of the room as well, and reasons they join.

Idk just my two cents. I would like new people to join but I feel like people that don't join are demanding near-worship by irc standards from the regulars to even consider coming back and that's not what I want out of irc lol.

Uggh, no we're not. All we're asking is for a simple "Hi" or "Hello" instead of being brushed off all the time. We don't expect the regulars to bow down to us, but what we do expect is at least a welcome, which I'm sure a regular would easily get, if he or she were to join instead of a newbie.

 

[Ho-Oh]

It's understandable that you can't drop everything and make people feel welcome, but many people persist, I've persisted to involve myself into the conversation, I took interest in what others had to say, but noone cared; and when the time came when I chattered, people would often throw off smart remarks or again, ignore me. It's not like I or others have been ignored once, and then we feel excluded; the reason we feel this way is because most of the time when we get on there and this is the case. Plus really, it only takes less than 4 seconds to type the word 'Hi' into the chat; which really isn't a mammoth ask.

And yeah, we've made up our minds. I don't see a reason in wanting to come back, if we've "given you something to work with", and then for it to then be thrown back in our faces several times. It's good that the problem is getting fixed, but it's too late for some people.

But the problem is, it shouldn't be like that. New members shouldn't have to schedule a time, and pin-point a moment where the friendly members are on so they feel welcome. They should be welcomed at any time, regardless of who is on. They should be welcomed not based on who is online, but because it's the right thing to do.

And I'm not saying this can be the case. Have everyone be happy and welcoming, but it should be more of a focus than all the gossip, and maintaining a social heirarchy.

Uggh, no we're not. All we're asking is for a simple "Hi" or "Hello" instead of being brushed off all the time. We don't expect the regulars to bow down to us, but what we do expect is at least a welcome, which I'm sure a regular would easily get, if he or she were to join instead of a newbie.

Issue is so many people come and leave in the channel that saying hi to everyone is kinda pointless, especially when they turn out to be someone after game dev help. Also notice how everyone here is only speaking for the friendly group? idk about Kip's bad group because I'm asleep then, which is why we're all kinda surprised about it. And if it's true there's an unfriendly group, I'm not sure how any of us (I assume there aren't many on access at that time, since Ray/J/I/Marcin are the most talkative ones and usually on at the same time), but if Kip can give me logs of the rude ones I can look into it, and try to catch them when they are online in my timezone.

I stopped joining #tpc because of the rudeness and the arrogance of some members towards the new ones. I always wanted to welcome some of the new members as well as assist them in any questions (such as ROM Hacking and GD) but nope! Other members just have to scare them off by being rude. I tried being a regular back then, but I just couldn't take the rudeness and the unwelcoming behavior.

Unfortunately they're just so common. :( There was a guy the other day that yelled at us for giving him a link to "search" to find a hack and got really angry at us, whereas the other rom hackers say one question, leave, and never come back. On the other hand that's not really welcoming to all of us. :(

Gimme dat gold star!

Well, I've been there once, and I've heard rude jokes about my nationality of which I'm very proud, so I just got hell outta there and not coming back at all. Before I actually joined the conversation, I had a major problem with joining it (had to wait until they switch the topic). I think many people can have the problem with bandwagoning conversations.

For the most part jokes are lighthearted but if you were offended you could've asked the people to stop, or asked a hop/op/above to interfere. Talking about the topic though, technology is discussed way too often there which is great for those interested but the majority can't really relate.

Kip's tl;dr

You're my favourite.

I haven't ever seen anyone being rude in #TPC, but I haven't really been in there often.

I popped in quite often, or left it in the background a bit, but I found that most of the time it was absolutely dead :/ didn't see the point in staying on a channel to talk to myself really.

Since then I have discovered some of the section channels, some of which have been much more lively, so I visit those often.

It seems kind of hard to promote an IRC except just making sure everyone knows about it, since you can't really have IRC events or anything D:.

Yeah it's the time of day really. Basically unless you get an American/British group Kip falls in love with it probably won't be active at the other times. XD;

 

[Her]

I stopped joining #tpc because of the rudeness and the arrogance of some members towards the new ones. I always wanted to welcome some of the new members as well as assist them in any questions (such as ROM Hacking and GD) but nope! Other members just have to scare them off by being rude. I tried being a regular back then, but I just couldn't take the rudeness and the unwelcoming behavior.

Members could be nicer in there, sure, but you're being quite over the top about this. It's insulting. There have been instances where new members have been chased out of the channel, but only because they were a) consistently being annoying, b) stirring up trouble and c) more often than not, breaking the swear filter. By the way, I don't recall a single instance of you ever being on IRC, let alone these supposed multiple instances of you welcoming members. Maybe this is just down to my timezone, but please, don't hate from outside the club.

 

[Oryx]

For the record Curious I remembered you joining and noticed when you left. And to add to that, you're not just asking for a hi. Think of it this way, what if the conversation went like this?

-no talking for 5 hours-
[Join] Curious
Curious: Hi!
Toujours: Hi!
Curious: How are you?
-no talking for 5 hours-

Would you not take that as "I don't want to talk to you, shut up"? Once you've started greeting people that join, you're opening yourself up for a conversation. You're letting people know you're available and willing to talk, and then if you start idling again the people you greeted will once again feel ignored. The rudeness argument, I don't see it often (in fact, very rarely recently since a few people that were particularly loved by ranked people so were never punished for being trolls left) but I can understand it. But the argument that the channel is idle for too long and people don't reply when you join doesn't really hold up as something that...can be changed without thinking of the people idling in the channel as, once again, robots that are there to talk to you when you want to talk and can't idle when they don't want to talk.

 

[Livewire]

I think much of this is being wildly exaggerated. #tpc is not some elitist chatroom for the powerful and important people of PC to pick on and bully new members like you all claim. Any instance I've ever seen came from literally one person, a certain The 100 Mega Shock, who no longer calls PC home. More often than not, the channel is quiet the majority of the day. And those of you lambasting #tpc are those who are never there. So don't speak as if you know, because you don't if you're not there to see for yourself.

 

[Nihilego]

Ok, I wasn't going to post in here originally but idk I kinda feel like it now.

Although it's fairly widely known, as far as I'm aware anyway, that I have a fair dislike for the IRC in general, I actually feel I should defend it here to an extent against the "it's not welcoming" comments since in my, tbh fairly limited experience, that's not something I've noticed at all. I'd like to ask how you guys expect to be welcomed. Do you literally want a situation where, as soon as you join the channel, everyone stops what they're doing to say hi to you and make sure you're happy and comfortable? Because that's almost definitely never going to happen. Think of this in a real life situation - you're going to a new school, for example, and walk into your new classroom full of people who know each other already. Do you expect them all to immediately start chatting to you or even notice you for that matter? I know I wouldn't - like any other new social situation, you need to get yourself involved, not wait for someone else to involve you. You might not like it but that's how entering a new social environment works online or offline. So if you don't really feel comfortable around a ton of new people who know each other already offline then... I guess #tpc just isn't for you. Although honestly from what I've seen, #tpc can be plenty welcoming at times. On occasion I've seen several people greeting the newer ones and dropping things like "welcome to #tpc" or whatever in there and that's something you probably wouldn't see offline at all. I think a bit of perseverance and considering an offline situation would help you guys understand why #tpc doesn't seem all that welcoming to you. Imo, it's not the huge issue people are making it out to be. It's a totally normal and, for me, totally expected one.

...although that said, what I don't expect is rudeness. I've never been involved in anything I'd consider rudeness, nor have I really seen all that much of it, but as much as the regulars would like to say that it's not an issue, it quite obviously is since almost everyone in this thread who doesn't use the IRC has pinpointed it as the reason why. Perhaps you mean nothing by the things you say and perhaps they wouldn't offend another regular, but some more consideration looks like it needs to be taken here. Because, honestly, stuff like

Well, I've been there once, and I've heard rude jokes about my nationality of which I'm very proud, so I just got hell outta there and not coming back at all.

is totally unacceptable whichever way you spin it. That's the kinda stuff we all know would get you in trouble on the forums so why it'd be acceptable in IRC is kinda beyond me. If rudeness at this level happens often then... yeah. It's been said several times, and now been shown in an example, that rudeness is a legitimate problem on the IRC.

Further to that there are these comments about the conversation being difficult to enter into what people saying not being perceived well. I'm gonna have to side with the regulars here yet again. Do people expect the conversation to always be something that they can enter into, or even further, be tailored for them? People need to stop taking it as a personal insult or whatever's happening here when others in the channel are talking about things they don't understand. I'm gonna use a conversation I had yesterday (iirc... lol) on the IRC with Twiggy and Sotomura about computers. We were more or less the only people talking at the time about that, and although no-one else really had much to contribute, we didn't stop. Because that's how conversation works. If I remember, someone actually said that we were being boring or something like that but again, didn't matter because that's just not how it works. Don't like the topic of conversation? Wait for it to die down if you can't contribute to it. The channel isn't tailored around any single person's needs or, although it probably should be about Pokémon, any particular topic at all. If you try to contribute to a topic and get ignored it's likely that what you said didn't really add anything. Again these are common social things which people seem to not be applying to the IRC.

Now for this whole idea of a social hierarchy. In all honesty I'm not really seeing it and maybe people who are seeing it are mixing up "people at a better social standing" and "people who talk a lot". If anyone's surprised that the people who talk a lot are better known and more popular then... idk that's way over my head. But an actual social hierarchy? Yeah I can't say I've experienced that at all. The way I see it you've got regulars and you've got none-regulars. And some of them talk and some of them don't talk. And the regulars who talk a lot are the ones who seem most involved and present and dominating and whatever. If that's the definition of a social hierarchy then... ok then, there's a social hierarchy. But to the best of my knowledge that's no hierarchy - that's just the way you'd expect things to work. Back in my earlier days on PC I'd be the first to accuse #tpc of chucking out these 'cliques' and other nasty things like that. But in reality, I don't think there are 'cliques' any more. I think it's just that people forget that the IRC isn't really much different to a normal situation. Going back to the school analogy I made earlier, if the new class isn't receptive of you at first, does that make it a clique? I don't think so.

So basically the tl;dr of all that is that I think the only really unexpected issue is the rudeness and regulars, this looks like it's on your end and needs to be addressed. Aside from that I don't feel the IRC particularly differs from any other social situation.



...and if you're still reading then well done. I might as well as throw out there the reasons why I personally don't really use the IRC. Up until very recently, I thought all of the stuff which I just argued against. I thought people weren't friendly or receptive. I thought there were cliques. I thought I couldn't join in with the conversation on the same level as the likes of Nica and co. It turns out that all of that, the way I see it, was total rubbish and I was upset over nothing. There were also other issues but that was a slightly less common situation and not one I need to go into here since it won't really add much to the discussion - I've talked to people involved there and it's all blown over and stuff now.

The reason why I personally don't use the IRC now is just... I kinda find it boring lol. Most of the time I'm on there I don't see any of the issues people are complaining about in this thread simply because it's dead. Maybe I'm not hanging around long enough but I always seem to go there, wait five minutes, then think "ok this is dumb" and leave when no-one says anything. Maybe, in consideration though, that's my own problem - what if I initiated a conversation? Idk lol this isn't the time to get all reflective and stuff - that's just the short and sweet of why I don't really use it much. Also, what Nick said:

I don't go on #thepokecommunity because I don't have any need to. All the people from PC that I want to talk to I can do so elsewhere.

applies strongly to me. I don't have any very close friends who use IRC but not Msn or some other method of contact.


So that about wraps it up I guess. It felt weird siding with the regulars when I myself don't really enjoy using the IRC but whatever. Just my two cents, to drop a horribly overused phrase.

 

[Yui Hirаsаwа]

To be perfectly honest, people are trying really hard at TPC now, everyone is super nice and friendly and its a pleasure to be there, so you should really should go give them another chance.

 

[Aquacorde]

I've been regularly going to #tpc for a while now... started back when there was that big campaign to get people there and whatnot. It was friendly and active and I got dragged in by friends and we always talked so I didn't really feel excluded or shunned or anything. Once that big rush died down, though, then IRC just had the regulars from beforehand. Certain people were a bit rude in general, but they mainly talked about things I had no opinion on so I lurked until I saw a conversation I was interested in.

That must have been over a year ago. I've never really noticed much deliberate unfriendliness from most of the users. And what deliberate unfriendliness I saw- well, I think it was warranted because it tended to be in retaliation to rude newcomers spamming and being annoying and not heeding warnings.

As for being ignored, well... yeah. You can't really expect everyone to greet you personally or start talking to you immediately, especially if there's already a big active conversation. Your best bet is either to jump into it and contribute or wait for the topic to change. What I generally do is leave the chat window open and check back occasionally until I see people talking about something that I feel I can join in on. And then I do. And I am generally included in the conversation pretty well, because I am contributing to the conversation at hand and not expecting others to come up with something to talk about that they are only minutely interested in.

If you want to start a conversation, say something interesting. Ask a question that people mightn't have considered before. Wonder about something. Post something you'd like to share or comment on. Starting off with 'hi/what's up/etc' doesn't tend to get you places.

Oh, here's an example:
05:35:03: <Pretzel> touchdown confirmed
05:35:04: <Pretzel> Curiosity has arrived safely
05:36:59: <bloo> Hi
05:37:20: <Pretzel> Curiosity has arrived safely
05:37:24: <Pretzel> on Mars
05:37:32: <anna> YES IT HAS!
05:37:37: <anna> wooooooo
05:37:43: <Pretzel> YEEHAW
05:38:00: <bloo> anna is the queen of mars
05:38:12: <anna> am I?

That little exchange was the beginning of an hour-long, meandering conversation with no breaks. Pretzel shared something he was watching and wanted to share, I commented, and Bloo added on. That's how conversations tend to go. Sometimes people won't have much or even anything to say. Sometimes they will, but their mind will take them way far off the original topic. Sometimes there can actually be a discussion on one topic for hours.

Um yeah I don't really know. I just feel like sometimes people deem #tpc unfriendly before they really put forth much effort into being included. You can't just wait for people to cater to you; you have to go in and do things yourself.

 

[Kylie-chan]

IRC is basically like a live version of the Daily Chit-Chat, or at least how it was years ago when I was active. If you try to hijack the topic, you will be left cold, but, similarly, the barrier for entry can seem high. You just have to jump in. The main problem for people joining IRC channels anywhere is when the conversation is very personal, based on injokes, etc., but in that case make a relevant comment or just wait. If people feel that's a lot of the time maybe that needs to be examined, though?

If someone joins and says 'hi', though, it's only polite to say hi back (you don't have to become the welcome mat), but unless you're Ke$ha, the party don't start when you walk in, so you shouldn't expect the conversation that currently exists to accommodate you. If things are idle, bring up something interesting -- people love to talk, unless they're all afk or playing Minecraft or whatever, in which case it's not your fault or theirs, just time of the day =)

I think overall the complaints of cliqueiness are a little off the mark these days, but I acknowledge it may not be as easy for me to perceive it, because I've been active in #tpc many times in the past and know people there already. I believe that most if not all of the current regulars don't actively want to exclude others, but that doesn't mean people will feel excluded -- in my history as an IRC user though, I've never seen many people who make an earnest effort over some time to be recognised and included be shunned, and I've been a member of a number of communities that are famed for their elitism ;p

Personally when I've tried to make people feel welcomed in other channels, my approach has just been to treat them as if they've been there forever. I don't mean fawning over them with hearts, just say hi to them, answer the stuff they say in conversation as I would anyone else I was familiar with, speak warmly, etc. and hope they can see they're being treated the same as anyone else -- if you don't feel like the new school transfer, then it's easy to acclimatise and open up to others around you.

 

[droomph]

I dunno what a major problem is, but...

I don't like when people start talking about computer stats and processor speeds. It's happened on more than one occasion when I went into there. It's not bad so to say, but it feels just a tad bit exclusive when people start using the words "GHz" and "Quad Processor" and "Intel" and stuff (though I know what those words mean), since I'm just not that into it, and some people might not know what it is. As far as I know, that's the reason why people don't allow GH or RH talk, since people might not know and/or feel excluded, so I don't get why computer talk is the same.

Anyways don't mind me, that's just some of the time. Most of the time people welcome me and I feel great being there, though I don't really like chatting much anyways x]

 

[donavannj]

I dunno what a major problem is, but...

I don't like when people start talking about computer stats and processor speeds. It's happened on more than one occasion when I went into there. It's not bad so to say, but it feels just a tad bit exclusive when people start using the words "GHz" and "Quad Processor" and "Intel" and stuff (though I know what those words mean), since I'm just not that into it, and some people might not know what it is. As far as I know, that's the reason why people don't allow GH or RH talk, since people might not know and/or feel excluded, so I don't get why computer talk is the same.

Anyways don't mind me, that's just some of the time. Most of the time people welcome me and I feel great being there, though I don't really like chatting much anyways x]

The reason Rom Hacking and Game Development questions are generally banned are because they're usually only brought up by someone who wants an IMMEDIATE answer to a question they have, and those people typically don't stop repeating their question until they get an answer or are kicked from the channel. They also tend to falsely assume that someone on IRC actually knows how to hack a game or knows how to code.

 

[droomph]

The reason Rom Hacking and Game Development questions are generally banned are because they're usually only brought up by someone who wants an IMMEDIATE answer to a question they have, and those people typically don't stop repeating their question until they get an answer or are kicked from the channel. They also tend to falsely assume that someone on IRC actually knows how to hack a game or knows how to code.

well, as I said, it's not such a big a problem, so it's all okay x]

 

[Oryx]

Actually thanks to some pushes by some regulars RH and GD talk in general have been allowed/accepted on the main channel. It's just not a help channel for it is all, haha.

 

[droomph]

like, you can talk about the latest developments in the GD and RH world?