Tools or No Tools?

[Haku.]

Why does most hackers uses a tool instead of a hex editor?
If they use tools such as a-map or any other tools, it would create problems would it?
They would then complain saying that it is buggy or the tools is giving out virusses and etc. Why don't they just use a hex editor?
Hex editing can do completely everything for me, tho i used it once it a while when i'm not too bored or experimenting the rom around.
Thus, does the new generation hackers, which is us, use tools or hex editors more?
Please explain and elaborate on your answer.
I would like to know your thoughts and comments towards the growing trend of the usage of tools more often then a hex editor.

 

[NiKaNoRoU]

Let me put it this way: a lovely steak is in front of you, and you are extremely hungry.
So your goal is to eat it. Now, there are certain people, which we call 'pros', that can eat the steak with only their hands and still have their hands clean.
These people, who have already the experience of eating the steak with bare hands, are aware that most people, be it that they are going to eat the steak for the first time, or be it that they are bored and don't want to get their hands dirty, don't eat it.
So these 'pro' people have to come up with a solution.
And they invented the spoon and fork. They showed all others how to use them.
So people now have the option to eat the steak without getting their hands dirty. The fork might cause injury if used unproperly, but that's a rare ocassion.

So, I now ask the same question as you, will you eat the steak bare-handed or with a spoon and a fork, which makes it easier?

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

Let me put it this way: a lovely steak is in front of you, and you are extremely hungry.
So your goal is to eat it. Now, there are certain people, which we call 'pros', that can eat the steak with only their hands and still have their hands clean.
These people, who have already the experience of eating the steak with bare hands, are aware that most people, be it that they are going to eat the steak for the first time, or be it that they are bored and don't want to get their hands dirty, don't eat it.
So these 'pro' people have to come up with a solution.
And they invented the spoon and fork. They showed all others how to use them.
So people now have the option to eat the steak without getting their hands dirty. The fork might cause injury if used unproperly, but that's a rare ocassion.

So, I now ask the same question as you, will you eat the steak bare-handed or with a spoon and a fork, which makes it easier?

But even then, you never know if the Steak was brought up with any chemicals.

Everything has risks. Most tools have risks too, but so does Hex Editing, if done wrong. not everything is risk-free, but has minimal risks, but I would like to see more people using Hex, as the more tools, the lazier the hackers become, especially the new hackers who I expect to pick up where we left off. These hackers must learn to hack their own games and make tools and such, continuing the cycle. Basically, I think we should have a balance of tool users and Hex Editors, mainly the latter to change nearly any ROM, if they search right.

 

[NiKaNoRoU]

But even then, you never know if the Steak was brought up with any chemicals.

Either way, you just have to eat it, just to make sure.

Everything has risks. Most tools have risks too, but so does Hex Editing, if done wrong. not everything is risk-free, but has minimal risks, but I would like to see more people using Hex, as the more tools, the lazier the hackers become, especially the new hackers who I expect to pick up where we left off. These hackers must learn to hack their own games and make tools and such, continuing the cycle. Basically, I think we should have a balance of tool users and Hex Editors, mainly the latter to change nearly any ROM, if they search right.

I personally don't expect people who eat steaks by spoon and fork to just start experimenting on how to eat it bare-handed, and get off clean. Practise makes prefect, and many steaks later, the exceptional ones will do it. Eventually. But in general, and including me, I'd just say 'I hate getting my hands dirty, and I want to eat steaks and enjoy them, not dissect them and feast the raw way'.

 

[.com]

At bottom, a hex editor is a tool in itself. So, either way, you're using tools in any hacking whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[Matteron (96)]

At bottom, a hex editor is a tool in itself. So, either way, you're using tools in any hacking whether you acknowledge it or not.

my exact thought. no matter what you do you will always be using a tool in the end.

 

[Iacobus]

Just kidding. We've had this discussion enough already though.
People use tools (and now I'm talking about the ROM editing tools out here) because you can work faster if you use them. That's just how our brain works. We interpret colour faster than shape and shape faster than value.. So: Images > Words > Numbers. It's also easier to think in that direction ( Images -> Words -> Numbers) than in the reverse direction. Uff.. I can't explain this properly.

 

[Poryhack]

I have to agree with Yoda^. If you even have to ask why people use dedicated editing programs instead of a hex editor, you are beyond help.

You mightaswell ask why we use computers instead of pencil and paper.

There's nothing superior about a hex editor, but before you know how things work enough to make a tool that's the only option.

 

[Engimal]

Let me put it this way: a lovely steak is in front of you, and you are extremely hungry.
So your goal is to eat it. Now, there are certain people, which we call 'pros', that can eat the steak with only their hands and still have their hands clean.
These people, who have already the experience of eating the steak with bare hands, are aware that most people, be it that they are going to eat the steak for the first time, or be it that they are bored and don't want to get their hands dirty, don't eat it.
So these 'pro' people have to come up with a solution.
And they invented the spoon and fork. They showed all others how to use them.
So people now have the option to eat the steak without getting their hands dirty. The fork might cause injury if used unproperly, but that's a rare ocassion.

So, I now ask the same question as you, will you eat the steak bare-handed or with a spoon and a fork, which makes it easier?

That was THE best reply for anything, ever.

 

[sky_queen3]

I use tools 'cause I'm lasy. If there's an easy way to do something, I'll do it and I think there are others in the wrold, not just here, who think that way. :D The main point of a hack is the end product, if a tool made hack can be as good as a non tool made hack then there's no problem. :)

 

[Samike360]

Have you ever considered that maybe not every one in the world has unlimited time to spend learning a complicated program and would not like to go through thousands of little symbols when they could just use tools?

 

[interdpth]

Have you ever considered that maybe not every one in the world has unlimited time to spend learning a complicated program and would not like to go through thousands of little symbols when they could just use tools?

you need too.

As long as you know what the tool does, a hex editor isn't needed, however.

If you don't know something, or want to do it by hand, or a tool isn't available then you use a hex editor.

 

[Darthatron]

you need too.

As long as you know what the tool does, a hex editor isn't needed, however.

If you don't know something, or want to do it by hand, or a tool isn't available then you use a hex editor.

I concur. If you want to use a tool then you should be able to understand what the tool does and how it does it. You won't learn unless you can do things with the bare-minimum.

 

[Tropical Sunlight]

Mmm steak. Joke joke

I use tools because I don't even have time to spell the words 'Hex Editor'. Tools were made to use them, and that's whhat I like to do.

You can use a Hex Editor, I don't blame you.

 

[Haku.]

Seems interesting tho.
But my aim in this thread is to find out why people use tools more then hex editors.
Maybe they're plain lazy or etc?
Besides, why the newcomers/new hackers here always rely on tools and then blame em when something goes wrong?

 

[0m3GA ARS3NAL]

What Darcy said.
When I started out, I relied on tools to do EVERYTHING for me.
If there wasn't a tool for it, I couldn't do it.
(Keep in mind I literally started ROM hacking less than a year before joined PC, so most of the tools today, didn't exist... A-Map was German only, no XSE, PokeScript was just kicking off, Script Ed was the standard. The Helmeted Rodent was the main Tool Making Team, E-Map... oh man, nostalgia.)

hacking back then was difficult, but as I grew older, I learned some scripting, grew more comfortable with Hex Editors, and started working closely to them. (Back then you needed a Hex Editor for many things, like erasing scripts, lol)

Nowadays, I don't need many tools.
I use XSE and A-Map, that is it.
Of course, I would actually use them if my computer was well enough to run them properly. lol

Hex Editing is a good skill to know, so I guess it is important to have a nice balance when it comes to relying on tools.

You can rely on them, just be sure you now what you are doing when you take a Hex Editor to your ROM, and remember kiddies, BACK UP OFTEN!

 

[Tropical Sunlight]

It's not like I'm lazy, I just don't want to spend my whole day sitting behind this computer

 

[Chimchar 9]

Let's just say this; hex editors are very hard to use for most of the hackers, also tools are easier to use, and if they're buggy then the owner can fix it. Simple really. :P

 

[SCV]

Seems interesting tho.
But my aim in this thread is to find out why people use tools more then hex editors.
Maybe they're plain lazy or etc?
Besides, why the newcomers/new hackers here always rely on tools and then blame em when something goes wrong?

Not all people are looking for the same things in the ROM Hacking community. That brings us to a point that has been made many many points. Most of the people in the ROM Hacking community are not ROM Hackers. Rather the ROM Hacking community is composed of primarily ROM Editors. The ROM Editors, are simply looking to edit a ROM to be what they can make it with what is available. Its really like computer users. Most computer users use a computer to do task which they are allowed to do by the programs they have available. If they have to do a task for which there is no program, their solution is either a very "manual" one or not do it. In ROM Editing/Hacking the corresponding thing to manual, would be using a hex editor. The point of computers is to have repetitive tasks done for you as much as possible. That is the third option, which is to make a program(i.e., tool) to carry out the task. Of course, some hackers, don't program, rather, they research and then a programmer makes a program to carry out the tasks for them.

Even tool makers rely on tools more than on a hex editor. Because once you don't have to carry out a task manually there's no reason to.

So to answer your question. That behavior is the basic culture of computer usage. The difference is how far people go when they have to do something that there is no program for. Do they quit, Do they do the work manually, or do they make a tool to do it?

Let me ask you this. Did you build your computer(including all hardware, the operating system and the software for that operating system) from scratch? Why or why not?

Of course there are people who build their own programs for day to day use, for work and for ROM Editing. Personally I take joy in researching and using a hex editor to understand pokemon roms. I take joy in making programs which will allow to edit it quickly. I also take joy in making programs that I need for work. Life is about compromise. Its how much do you care about something, so that you want to do it to make sure that it works how you want it to. If you care alot there are two options build something from scratch or learn how something else works. When I started working on 4th Gen ROMs there were no open source tools. This meant I could not modify them later and I did not know exactly how they worked. When loadingNOW released poketext, then thenewpoketext I was able to use his work, because I read his code and knew it did exactly what he said it did which is why I wanted it to do. Why would I use a hex editor, pen and paper, to compress/encrypt/decompress/decrypt things when there is a tool for it and there are still many more things to figure out. Basically I cared about progress more than getting on a high horse and saying I could do everything myself, without anyone else's help.

 

[HackMew]

I agree with SCV. And I think knowledge is the only tool you will ever need.