US Debt Ceiling crisis

Lulz. The Democrats are now filibustering their own plan in the Senate, while Obama is threatening to veto everything that comes to his desk. So much for compromise, eh?

Let the political theatre continue! Get your popcorn.
 
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FreakyLocz14 said:
Lulz. The Democrats are now filibustering their own plan the Senate, while Obama is threatening to veto everything that comes to his desk. So much for compromise, eh?
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Like I said, that's what happens when everybody's (especially the Tea Party Republicans) dealing in absolutes ("It's either my way or no way!")
Magmaruby and Aquasapphire said:
I bet this will have a huge impact on the elections. worst of all on our economy and I don't think it will be a positive one either...we should vote those who weren't willing to compromise out of public office for causing this mess...
Three days left...can they do it in time?
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I'd expect a collapse with hyperinflation any moment soon-especially after August 1.
Problem is, even if they all get voted out, we'd probably get even worse "representatives". Like it's said, vote out the bums, get new bums.
Things are looking really bleak right now-and will be even worse if they don't get their act together!
Mr. X said:
Until the Republicans are willing to remove tax loopholes
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Doubt that's ever gonna happen. Even the Democratic majority in both houses last Congress couldn't seem to close the Reverse Morris Trust tax loophole I mentioned at the start of this thread. (which is exploited when the divesting corporation's shareholders end up with a majority stake in the post-transaction corporation that bought the divested assets.)
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
My bad for not providing a link.
Here it is.
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Republicans filibustered it. Democrats are just enforcing it. Either the Republicans or Democrats enforce it, I don't see why it matters which one does it because if the Democrats weren't, the Republicans will.

Democrats do the same thing for most of what the Republicans filibuster, it just gives them some degree of control over their own bill. Mainly just to say to Republicans "Haha, you don't get to." A bit sad, really. :/
 
you guys are picking sides as badly as the sides can't come to a compromise. they're both at fault, if the republicans are too prideful to come to a compromise at this time, in the interest of the country the democrats should be the better side and just follow through with it. two things can happen, one it ends up turning out good, or two it fails and the republicans realize that they need to compromise. right now we just look stupid to the rest of the world.
 
The democrats are catering to the republicans' wants to some extent, though (see Reid's proposal). And the republicans are just waiting for the democrats to fold to them completely. Which may or may not happen. Obama still has the option of the 14th amendment, but White House keeps saying no.

I can't find the source that had the proposal outlined. If I do, I'll edit this post.


edit: this'll have to do

Boehner's proposal has the potential to run out of steam by campaigning season next year, thus starting this crisis all over again, and then two battles have to be handled at the same time. Not a good idea.
 
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The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
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Tax cuts caused 3tn of the debt. I think that's also something worth looking into. Oh, and two wars.

[PokeCommunity.com] US Debt Ceiling crisis

Source: The Guardian.
 
Went said:


Tax cuts caused 3tn of the debt. I think that's also something worth looking into. Oh, and two wars.

[PokeCommunity.com] US Debt Ceiling crisis

Source: The Guardian.
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Obama has expanded the wars that Bush started, so the blame on that issue is mutual at best.

Raising taxes now on small businesses would skyrocket our already near 10% unemployment.

Alot of those things, like TARP and Medicare Part D, were Democratic proposals. They occurred during the 110th Congress. Bush condeded stuff to Congress, in exchange; they took stuff like impeachment off the table while Congress continued to fund the wars.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
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What I don't understand is why republicans want to make drastic cuts, when we could easily just make modest tax increases and modest cuts, instead of just focusing all of our attention on just the one.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
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Keyword, BALANCE. Its not balanced unless tax loop holes are removed as well.

That said, Democrats are NOT trying to increase taxes. They are trying to remove loopholes that the extremely rich (Read - Oil companies) abuse to they don't have to pay large portions of their taxes.

How the republicans think making groups pay taxes that they should be paying anyway is a increase i'll never know. You know what happens to (average) people who don't pay their taxes? Yep, they go to jail.

So, to begin the flame wars, stuff like this is why Communism would be better. At least then we are only ruled by one corrupted person, instead of entire groups. And, at least something would get done. Might not be the right or even the best thing but at least stuff would get done.
 
Anders said:
What I don't understand is why republicans want to make drastic cuts, when we could easily just make modest tax increases and modest cuts, instead of just focusing all of our attention on just the one.
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Raising taxes on small businesses and large employers would destroy the job market.

"Wait. We only want to raise taxes on the wealthy."

Your definintion of "wealthy", anyone making $250,000 a year, encompasses most small businesses who are treated as individuals because they are incorporated. That's your nail salons, barber shops, mom and pop grocery stores, local restaurants, etc.
 
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FreakyLocz14 said:
Obama has expanded the wars that Bush started, so the blame on that issue is mutual at best.
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So you consider a pull-out from Iraq as expanding the wars? You do have to keep in mind inflation when considering why expenses on something rise, you know.

FreakyLocz14 said:
Raising taxes on small businesses and large employers would destroy the job market.

"Wait. We only want to raise taxes on the wealthy."

Your definintion of "wealthy", anyone making $250,000 a year, encompasses modt small businesses who are treated as individuals because they are incorporated. That's your nail deshons, barber shops, mom and pop grocery stores, local restaurants, etc.
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This issue is due to an oversimplification of the tax code brought about during Reagan's presidency. What needs to happen is that we need to redo the tax code such that individuals making $250,000 a year aren't in the same tax bracket as millionaires and billionaires, as that income level is increasingly becoming the "middle-class" due to a combination of inflation and a general trend where the earnings gap between the wealthy and the poor is rising considerably causing what is currently considered the middle-class to shrink.
 
We don't need tax brackets at all. We need a flat income tax rate with maybe some write-offs for legitimate purposes.
 
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Black Ice said:
https://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stori...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-31-20-38-46

tl;dr no tax hikes for rich, no loopholes closed, a plan to last only until 2012, cuts to defense, debt ceiling raised, social security and medicare untouched

looks like you got what you wanted. or you didn't get what you didn't want. idk. at least there aren't any immediate cuts to entitlement programs though!


lol
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We should have cut entitlements deeper. We don't have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem!
 
Except a spending issue can be fixed by getting more revenue? The US still has a lower tax burden than the average of the OECD countries. It's just 0.2, but that's a lot of money looking at the US' GPD.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
We don't have a revenue problem.
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Yes we do! Tax rates are at some of their lowest! Thank the Bush Tax cuts and that horrible tax cut "deal" the President caved in on last December.

FreakyLocz14 said:
We have a spending problem!
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End the wars we're fighting and repeal the Bush tax cuts!

You say things are Democratic proposals and that President Obama extended the Bush Tax cuts or expanded the wars as if that absolves them of being issues; it doesn't lol.

The President is so weak and it's an embarrassment. He capitulates to the Republicans at every turn. Who cares what the President did or what the Democrats supposedly proposed--the wars need to be ended and those tax cuts need to be repealed. To have the knee-jerk reaction that something is what the other "side" did is just partisan hackery and not an interest in a real debate.

Also "Cut, Cap and Balance" is just balancing the budget on the backs of the middle class and asks nothing from the wealthiest in this country, those who have been doing tremendously well in the midst of an economic crisis.

You could go with the Progressive Caucus' plan that Bernie Sanders advocates, but I'm afraid you'll just dismiss raising taxes on the wealthy and cutting the military budget as nothing more than a job-killing crusade or some such nonsense.

Such is the way of arguing with a conservative partisan.
 
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