Using The Pokemon You Love

[VultureQueen]

So a new generation of Pokemon are released, and you fall in love with some of the designs. After checking the Pokemon's statistics, you realize the Pokemon you adore are completely subpar and will never be top-tier material.

Do you ever compromise the effectiveness of your team to include a Pokemon you like?
If so, do you have any success in random wifi battles?
What Pokemon do you like that aren't considered competitive material?
How do you make the Pokemon you love work in a team? (i.e, do you adhere to Smogon tiers and seek out others in the same low tier? do you surround the Pokemon you like with supportive Pokemon of higher caliber? Do you just create a standard team and fill roles with Pokemon you like that are just possibly outclassed?)

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[Arylett Charnoa]

I've always been good at the art of "ignoring things that are more efficient in favor of things that look nice." Particularly in Pokemon. I typically just plow through the game with my favorites, and staunchly use them in Wi-Fi. Some are too weak for even me to consider, sadly. (Such as Mightyena and Liepard. I wouldn't dare use those in a Wi-Fi battle unless I had a super supportive team set up for them.)

But it's a bit easier to get around this in Double Battles, so I usually battle exclusively in those. Doubles let you have a supportive partner directly with you and have more of a team effort going on. Sometimes I am successful, and sometimes I am not in Pokemon Showdown. It depends on who I'm fighting and how good they are. Usually, I lose. But I imagine I'd win a bit more if there were more casual people for me to fight.

In-game, I'm typically not due to not EV-training and the Random Battles there being full of crazy Japanese competition butts.

I ignore the tiers though and I'll fill the roles with Pokemon I like regardless of them being outclassed. It's much more fun, and I'd rather fight with a unique team anyway rather than the same cookie cutter powerhouses everyone uses. Some are into that, and that's fine. But it just ain't my thing.

 

[Dr. Silver]

I do my best to include Pokemon on my battle teams regardless of their tier effectiveness, nothing is more satisfying than bringing half an opponent's team down with a Raticate.

When I use these lesser used Pokemon on my team I try to find a role that's perfect for them. My Shiny Electabuzz holds an Eviolite and supports the team with Light Screen and Discharge, my Pachirisu wears the opponent's health down with Super Fang and Toxic (I admit that Pachirisu isn't too great at this most of the time), my Zebstrika uses Me First to turn incredibly powerful attacks like Earthquake and Close Combat against the opponent etc. etc.

It's a bit of a shame that looking at most threads on this board will usually turn up with "Don't use this Pokemon, this Pokemon sucks, try Charizard X/Volcarona/Talonflame", but everyone's opinions are valid I guess.

 

[VultureQueen]

I do my best to include Pokemon on my battle teams regardless of their tier effectiveness, nothing is more satisfying than bringing half an opponent's team down with a Raticate.

When I use these lesser used Pokemon on my team I try to find a role that's perfect for them. My Shiny Electabuzz holds an Eviolite and supports the team with Light Screen and Discharge, my Pachirisu wears the opponent's health down with Super Fang and Toxic (I admit that Pachirisu isn't too great at this most of the time), my Zebstrika uses Me First to turn incredibly powerful attacks like Earthquake and Close Combat against the opponent etc. etc.

It's a bit of a shame that looking at most threads on this board will usually turn up with "Don't use this Pokemon, this Pokemon sucks, try Charizard X/Volcarona/Talonflame", but everyone's opinions are valid I guess.

I personally see a lot of discouragement of Delphox usage. Many people include how it is "basically a weaker Victini." It's movepool is a bit shallow, and it's defenses are a bit lower, but it's SpAtk and Speed are a bit higher, and it's still probably effective in a slot Victini would be used in. Replacing everything with Charizard X isn't going to solve everything, especially when you consider the popularity and thus predictability of it. I like Delphox, I've used it on Showdown in doubles and it was completely satisfactory.

By the way, your Zebstrika is an interesting idea. I've thought about Zebstrika but always dismiss it in the end, going for other options.
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[crazyjackas69]

Pokemon is a game, and If you enjoy more it using pokemons you love despite the fact that you will probably lose, use this king of pokemons.

 

[Onicon]

Sorry, but we can't quite let you get away with the Charizard X analogy. It is primarily a DD sweeper and thus is a better Salamence, not a better Victini/Dephlox. And considering that it is the only Pokemon with two Mega Evolutions that is legal in every standard tier it is anything but predictable.
Also, we don't think that Dephlox is outclassed by Victini, considering that it at least makes the speed jump over Garchomp. It contended with Pyroar for a slot as a Kangaskhan partner in VGC but ultimately lost because it is weak to Aegislash's Shadow Sneak, the kind of Pokemon it is supposed to remove for her.


Back to topic; fun is very dependant on the type of player you are. For us it is a form of courtesy and good sportsmanship not to hold back against any opponent. To be fair, the more common kind just want to win and not to be horribly curb-stomped.
The first rule you will learn at any kind of competitive playing is to assume a hypothetical competitive opponent who never underestimates anything and runs an entire wiki in his head (the metagame). What does it mean? Against this kind of opponent novelty is worth nothing when the Pokemon in question just performs like a watered down version of an extablished threat.

What is our opinion? Many people a somewhat weirded out because we can tell them with a straight face that their favorite Pokemon sucks - and can write a full analysis on it and discuss the best ways to utilise it. It kind of stems from the difficulty of telling apart player who are honestly seeking for advice and the kind that are willingfully awkward for the sake of their fun. They rarely hint whether they know what they are going for.

 

[VultureQueen]

Sorry, but we can't quite let you get away with the Charizard X analogy. It is primarily a DD sweeper and thus is a better Salamence, not a better Victini/Dephlox. And considering that it is the only Pokemon with two Mega Evolutions that is legal in every standard tier it is anything but predictable.
Also, we don't think that Dephlox is outclassed by Victini, considering that it at least makes the speed jump over Garchomp. It contended with Pyroar for a slot as a Kangaskhan partner in VGC but ultimately lost because it is weak to Aegislash's Shadow Sneak, the kind of Pokemon it is supposed to remove for her.


Back to topic; fun is very dependant on the type of player you are. For us it is a form of courtesy and good sportsmanship not to hold back against any opponent. To be fair, the more common kind just want to win and not to be horribly curb-stomped.
The first rule you will learn at any kind of competitive playing is to assume a hypothetical competitive opponent who never underestimates anything and runs an entire wiki in his head (the metagame). What does it mean? Against this kind of opponent novelty is worth nothing when the Pokemon in question just performs like a watered down version of an extablished threat.

What is our opinion? Many people a somewhat weirded out because we can tell them with a straight face that their favorite Pokemon sucks - and can write a full analysis on it and discuss the best ways to utilise it. It kind of stems from the difficulty of telling apart player who are honestly seeking for advice and the kind that are willingfully awkward for the sake of their fun. They rarely hint whether they know what they are going for.

My intention wasn't to attack people who utilize Charizard X, and I wasn't implying a comparison between Delphox and Charizard X's abilities, Charizard X obviously dominates.
When you say "we" in reference to Victini/Delphox comparison, I was in no way insinuating that this forum specifically makes that assumption. I haven't even explored this forum, hell I just signed up.
I think my previous post came off as a personal attack, which is unfortunate because it was not my intention. The majority of unwanted critique I see is discovered through Google searches, leading to multiple websites (which may or may not include this on, I'm not that attentive.) It is rather frustrating when I search for insight on a particular Pokemon, only to find threads asking for advice on a moveset for said Pokemon, to see multiple replies bullying the original poster to replace their Pokemon.
If someone is asking for constructive critique on their OU team, I hold no grudge against anyone who recommends more efficient replacements. That is why such threads exist.. I apologize if my comment came off as an attack, it wasn't intended to be.

 

[Nolafus]

When I first started playing competitively, I started out in the RU tier since that's where most of my favorite pokemon made their home. That's why I like Smogon. If your favorite pokemon is Sandslash, there's a tier for it where it's a very viable threat.

Of course, I always find it fun to sweep teams with pokemon no one uses. I like Torterra, so I use it in my UU team. I love it because it completely walls common leads such as Donphan (despite the Ice Shard, it only does about 20% damage), Hippowdon, and threats like that. Now Torterra isn't sweeping teams, but hopefully you get my point.

Just do what you deem fun. A lot of my favorite pokemon are my favorites because of competitive battling, so it's not really a problem for me, but if you struggle to use your favorite pokemon effectively, but you love using it anyway then just use it. If you get tired of losing, then start using competitively "better" pokemon. If you don't find competitive battling fun, then why in the world are you battling in the first place?

 

[MoxieInfinite]

You either play sith good mons and win or you play with your favorite mons and lose (as long as its ♥♥♥♥e)

You could always try to use your fave mon if its decently viable, like i buildt a team with zapdos back in bwou. It did well, but it was nowhere near my best team.

If your fav mon is like marowak or something, play nu or something. Dont bring it to ou and expect to win

 

[LetsPlayALoveGame]

Well, scheisse. I had a whole reply typed up and my PC decided to restart for updates. I'll try to remember the gist of it.

I feel like this thread was built for me. See, I've been playing competitively since early '09, and while I do use some OU staples such as Togekiss, Espeon (I run an offensive set because ♥♥♥♥ Alakazam), Excadrill, and others, I'm also a vehement user and supporter of the underrated Pokemon such as Mantine or Sandslash. I could honestly give a crap if they're low-tier, inviable, or outclassed by this-or-that because I like them and they generally perform well for me.

I will always be a strategist by nature, so logically I'm always trying to not only read my opponent, but use these Pokemon I like to their best potential rather than replacing them. It's undeniable that it takes far more skill to win with underused/"inviable" Pokemon than it does to achieve victory with the most overpowered things you can get past the banlist.

If it's truly impossible to win with my favorites, then I must be a pro-level strategist (lolno) because I've been consistently keeping a positive win/loss ratio while battling a wide variety of players, some with even more experience than me throughout 4th gen (including an online tournament I won where almost everyone else was using strictly OU teams while I came in with a team including Mantine, Sandslash, and Lanturn).

I didn't play competitive during 5th gen because it sucked and you know it did (the competitive scene, not the games), but I've been back more than ever since XY. My basic point is, even though it does make the game get stale a lot quicker, I'm not going to berate you for all using the same Pokemon, so don't constantly get up my ass about using who I like. There's not a whole lot of things in the world of Pokemon as satisfying as destroying staples of the OU metagame like Garchomp and Talonflame with something barely considered viable for NU because you were able to read and outpredict them after seeing them so much. xD

If I randomly start losing consistently one day for whatever reason, I'll gladly eat my words, but given my current success rate, I see no reason to stop playing the game the way I prefer to.

 

[vocis]

My favorite part of Pokemon is finding Pokemon that I like (either the design, the concept, or my take on what its personality would be like), regardless of their competitive viability, and doing the best that I can with them. In fact, I tend to be repulsed by over-usage.

That being said, I haven't gone into the competitive scene yet, and my usage of Pokemon I like is the main reason. I'd probably enjoy a non-OU tier.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

First of all, Lanturn has niche in DPPt OU as an awesome answer to Starmie.

Second of all, how high did you ladder with your Mantine team? I struggle to see how it could do well outside of a tournament. Tell me your highest peak on Shoddy, NBS or PO (whichever you played on).

Also, if you think you're a top level strategist, try signing up for SPL or Smogon Tour 18 when their time comes. Then you'll see how good you really are.

 

[Hiatus]

In-game, I use whatever Pokémon I wish, since battles aren't exactly that tense. Competitively, though, I limit myself only to those that I actually find useful, such as Skarmory and Blissey, whom could respectively be utilized as physical and special walls. Together, they make a great duo and complement each other very nicely. =) When you're in competitive scene, your main goal is to constantly win, so you always have to use whatever's considered to be best to climb yourself up the ladder.

 

[Redingard]

I think I speak for most when I say winning feels pretty good, especially when you use a team/certain Poke no one expects. In both Smogon and the normal game, weather teams have practically disappeared, rendering nearly every single weather-supported Poke UU or NU. However, that doesn't seems to be a problem for my Ninetails/Darmanitan/Venusaur team. Heck, most don't even remember Venusaur's Chlorophyll or Darmanitan's devastating attack. When I see that I just OHKO'd a Mega Blastoise with Flare Blitz (to be fair, it was a crit), I know I found my own certain niche.

No one really uses Weather teams, or certain pokemon like Gorebyss, Barbaracle, Electivire, etc. While they aren't gone, they certainly aren't part of the common rabble, and I think that's why I like them. Sure, I'm a sucker for Charizard or Garchomp, but nothing beats the moment when a Gorebyss Baton-Passes a White Herb Shell Smash onto a Nidoking. OU seems over-rated for good reasons, and I think that's why most prefer to sue their favorite Pokes. Surprising those who think Greninja will always beat a Gliscor brings a certain level of satisfaction that a normal OU team can't.

 

[LetsPlayALoveGame]

First of all, Lanturn has niche in DPPt OU as an awesome answer to Starmie.

Second of all, how high did you ladder with your Mantine team? I struggle to see how it could do well outside of a tournament. Tell me your highest peak on Shoddy, NBS or PO (whichever you played on).

Also, if you think you're a top level strategist, try signing up for SPL or Smogon Tour 18 when their time comes. Then you'll see how good you really are.

Everyone always told me Lanturn sucked, so I just kinda rolled with that. (Sorry, just now saw your reply.) Starmie usually wasn't trouble for me between him and my Weavile.

That's the thing - I only ever played on the actual console in my 4th gen days. Not to say there was anything wrong with the pre-PS! online simulators. I kept thinking about trying Shoddy when it was big, but never did. Still, I was up against people that had been playing since D/P, which I skipped out on.

I fully admit that I had my fair share of losses, especially my earlier battles where I got utterly curb-stomped. (I have my W/L record on my profile as a matter of fact) I think I got better over time because of the sheer amount of hackers and strictly-OU teams I fought over the months that year. It was crazy back then, and so different but fun nonetheless.

Anyways before I get too off track, to answer your question, I was only able to use Pokemon like Mantine so well because I got used to the movesets people ran on the typical OU staples. They were almost always the same if not very similar and therefore easy to predict. No matter what you're running, you have to get inside the opponent's head and the more you do that, the easier it is to win with lower-tier guys. It's kinda the same principle in the XY metagame.

The basic gist of my reply was that I don't think it's impossible to win with your faves, it just takes more skill. I wasn't trying to bash your previous post and I'm sorry if it came out like that. I just saw it fit to make a lengthy reply to this after getting outright attacked for playing the game a certain way for all this time. Also I don't consider myself a master strategist, hence why I wrote "lolno" next to it. Lol

 

[Kameken]

Do you ever compromise the effectiveness of your team to include a Pokemon you like? All the time
If so, do you have any success in random wifi battles? Sometimes, but not as often as I'd like
What Pokemon do you like that aren't considered competitive material? Heatmor, charizard pre-mega, meloetta, leavanny
How do you make the Pokemon you love work in a team? (i.e, do you adhere to Smogon tiers and seek out others in the same low tier? do you surround the Pokemon you like with supportive Pokemon of higher caliber? Do you just create a standard team and fill roles with Pokemon you like that are just possibly outclassed?) Smogon is a joke, at least in my opinion. I never have adhered to it and never will. If someone wants certain rules in a battle, they can talk to me about them. Otherwise, they can deal with what I throw at them.

 

[Sonata]

Do you ever compromise the effectiveness of your team to include a Pokemon you like? - No. The pokemon I like, I like because they're awesome and have good stats.

What Pokemon do you like that aren't considered competitive material? - Special Attacking Blissey. I love it. Nobody ever suggests it. People see it and get rekt.

How do you make the Pokemon you love work in a team? (i.e, do you adhere to Smogon tiers and seek out others in the same low tier? do you surround the Pokemon you like with supportive Pokemon of higher caliber? Do you just create a standard team and fill roles with Pokemon you like that are just possibly outclassed?) - We just do it.

 

[srinator]

Do you ever compromise the effectiveness of your team to include a Pokemon you like?
not really although everytime i start making a team i always keep thinking if scizor can be used, does it have synergy. if yes bull yeah if no aww ok.

If so, do you have any success in random wifi battles?
i dont have a 3ds so yeah, i do showdown and i always have success with scizor unless ofc i am against a fire moo team.

What Pokemon do you like that aren't considered competitive material?
every pokemon are competitive material, the question is quite mute.

How do you make the Pokemon you love work in a team? (i.e, do you adhere to Smogon tiers and seek out others in the same low tier? do you surround the Pokemon you like with supportive Pokemon of higher caliber? Do you just create a standard team and fill roles with Pokemon you like that are just possibly outclassed?)
idk about higher caliber but yes i give support mons to each of my pokemon, i try to make all 6 mons count as a support for one another, it really helps with my switch play style.

 

[praj.pran]

I love POWERFULL Pokemons like charizard y so I use but I like Pikachu I don't use it its weak :(

 

[KaaroKaaro]

Do you ever compromise the effectiveness of your team to include a Pokemon you like?
Yes... especially when PokeBank was released. I was so excited being able to use the Haxorus I lovingly trained back in Black.

If so, do you have any success in random wifi battles?
Err, I try my best I guess.. but I often fall short. When I first began using said Haxorus, I was kinda blinded by my attachment towards it... In the end I had to eventually drop it from the team I had made in Y.

What Pokemon do you like that aren't considered competitive material?
I think this is pretty difficult to answer as I think every pokemon has their own little niche... Would Pelliper and Gogoat count?

How do you make the Pokemon you love work in a team? (i.e, do you adhere to Smogon tiers and seek out others in the same low tier? do you surround the Pokemon you like with supportive Pokemon of higher caliber? Do you just create a standard team and fill roles with Pokemon you like that are just possibly outclassed?)
Back when I first got into competitive, all I ever did was search through tiers... in the end I got bored of how limited I felt my options were if I stuck within the tier system Smogon created. Now I just often pick a pokemon at random and check sites like smogen and serebii to check its stats and movepool, then train it in a way to fill a certain role in my teams.