UU Suspects Discussion

[Pokedra]

UU Suspects
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Written By Pokedra

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☆ BACKGROUND INFO
As most of you probably know, Smogon is finished testing for the new UU and BL. The tiers are still being made. This thread is for discussion on some of the suspect Pokemon who will almost 100% make BL.

☆ SUSPECTS
These are the suspect Pokemon that are considered far too powerful for UU by Smogoners.

• Staraptor
  
• Froslass
  
• Crobat
  
• Gallade
  
• Abomasnow
  
• Raikou
  

☆ REASONS
There's got to reasons for them to be too powerful for UU right? Here are some reason why.

Staraptor

Staraptor is a powerhouse in UU. Its good base stats of 120 Attack and 100 Speed makes him both fast and incredibly powerful. Staraptor also has Intimidate which somewhats helps its paltry Defense.

CB Staraptor is so powerful nearly all of UU is 2HKO'ed by it (barring defensive Rotom and Luxray). Steel-types can't wall it because it has Close Combat. Brave Bird is an extremely powerful attack that will pummel anything that doesn't resist it. Return offers a move that is still powerful but doesn't has recoil damage.

Froslass

Froslass is an awesome lead with Base 110 Speed and Focus Sash she can nearly always lay down one layer of Spikes. Immunity to Fake Out and Destiny Bond means she can usually take out another Pokemon as well as setting spikes up.

Crobat

Crobat is another great lead, it can outrun all of UU nearly (barring Choice Scarf) with its insane 130 Speed. Crobat can stop Pokemon setting up with Taunt and can usually recover off the damage it takes with Roost. He can induce sleep with Hypnosis.

Gallade

In the early days of UU testing, people feared two Pokemon that would impact the UU metagame: Gallade and Staraptor. Gallade can Swords Dance then proceed to sweep with his vast movepool, including Close Combat, Leaf Blade, Shadow Sneak and Stone Edge. He has many other options and with 766 Attack after a Swords Dance and Life Orb. Not many Pokemon enjoy taking a hit from Gallade.

Abomasnow

His ability is perfect for Hail teams, and Abomasnow has decent support options. He can SubSeed and can use his two STAB 120 power moves to crush other Pokemon. A very handy Pokemon, and it helps Walrein a lot.

Raikou

CM Raikou is nearly unstoppable in UU with 115 base Special Attack and Speed and a respectable 100 base Special Defense. Add on Calm Mind and Leftovers and it becomes really hard to beat him on the Special side. His movepool isn't very good but he doesn't need it when he can totally destroy most UU Pokemon with what he has.


Remember that the tier status of all of these suspects is not based on how hard they are to counter or easy to revenge kill, but by the three possible characteristics listed in this post. No other justifications for supporting a ban will be accepted (though you don't have to refer to them specifically as long as your response is relevant to the characteristic the suspect in question has been nominated for).

Feel free to discuss

 

[MartinNFLFalcon]

I agree at the staraptor.
Unless you have a Focus Sashed poke with Thunderbolt than you're set.
Brave Bird demolishes almost anything...

 

[Pokedra]

I agree at the staraptor.
Unless you have a Focus Sashed poke with Thunderbolt than you're set.
Brave Bird demolishes almost anything...

True, I'll bet my money that he'll be BL.

 

[wolf]

Now, I agree with all of these. Idk about Crobat though since I haven't seen one on a UU team yet. Staraptor might be so unlucky to be dumped into OU, but I extremely doubt it. Abomasnow is also a massive threat... I have to say that Gallade has done huge amounts of damage to my team lately since I see them around on almost every team. Isn't Shaymin also a suspect, or did it lose the noms?

 

[.]

Now, I agree with all of these. Idk about Crobat though since I haven't seen one on a UU team yet. Staraptor might be so unlucky to be dumped into OU, but I extremely doubt it. Abomasnow is also a massive threat... I have to say that Gallade has done huge amounts of damage to my team lately since I see them around on almost every team. Isn't Shaymin also a suspect, or did it lose the noms?

Crobat is a fantastic lead. Fastest Taunt, Brave Bird, Roost, and U-Turn let him basically mess up any early game strategy.

 

[wolf]

Crobat is a fantastic lead. Fastest Taunt, Brave Bird, Roost, and U-Turn let him basically mess up any early game strategy.

Of course, I just haven't countered it yet. So, yes, I agree to that he should be moved to BL. Too bad he lost Hypnosis due to Pt's downfall of accuracy. Even if he is bulky, that would make the set even more dangerous.

 

[Anti]

Of course, I just haven't countered it yet. So, yes, I agree to that he should be moved to BL. Too bad he lost Hypnosis due to Pt's downfall of accuracy. Even if he is bulky, that would make the set even more dangerous.

So you are taking a side without having ever encountered it? Doesn't that sound like a (pardon the pun) suspect way of going about this? ._.

Staraptor I doubt a little bit though. Brave Bird is insane, but it basically kills Staraptor in the process (especially if SR is in play). Usually it died before it could do anything to my team, which isn't exactly super fast and powerful. The CB set is worn down incredibly easily, but it's pretty much impossible to deny that if it gets in, it could massacre you. Still, it does have to predict right, and taking 25% damage just to mispredict can get it killed really easily. I find it a little overrated to be honest =\

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

So you are taking a side without having ever encountered it? Doesn't that sound like a (pardon the pun) suspect way of going about this? ._.

Staraptor I doubt a little bit though. Brave Bird is insane, but it basically kills Staraptor in the process (especially if SR is in play). Usually it died before it could do anything to my team, which isn't exactly super fast and powerful. The CB set is worn down incredibly easily, but it's pretty much impossible to deny that if it gets in, it could massacre you. Still, it does have to predict right, and taking 25% damage just to mispredict can get it killed really easily. I find it a little overrated to be honest =\

I actually agree with that. I've run into a pile of Raptors, none of which gave me INSANE trouble, and they tend to kill themselves, like you said. But hey, in my opinion the more they add to BL, the better. (At this stage I mean; I know the whole point of the change-up was to push down some BL folks and they will do just that, I just think UU is crowded at the moment.)

Registeel is the one Regi I'd bump up. I'm finding it particularly tough to take down, yet I haven't encountered the other Regis as much.

Shaymin should most definitely be on the list.

 

[wolf]

So you are taking a side without having ever encountered it? Doesn't that sound like a (pardon the pun) suspect way of going about this? ._.

I have used it as a lead, watched battles with it going against another team, looked up movesets on it. I just never seemed to run into it on battle. I wasn't really saying that I am taking the side entirely. I just know that it has been a threat to many set up leads. I have only battled it in BL and OU the time before it happened. I already experienced battling it, just not in UU.

 

[.]

Okay, out of all the Suspects, I feel the only one really deserving of being moved up is Staraptor. Gallade is good and all, but anything faster than it with a strong move (read: Staraptor, Sharpedo, Scyther, etc...) murder it in a single hit. Shadow Sneak is good for Ghosts and all, but it's no Sucker Punch, meaning it won't be doing a good deal of damage after a Swords Dance to neutral targets. Night Slash is another option, and honestly, the better option. Gallade has the bulk to live even Specs Shadow Balls from Mismagius, so uh, the extra power comes in handy against Slowbro and co. (I deserve a medal for that rhyme).

Staraptor's realistic counter is Luxray. Luxray with Intimidate is the safest bet, as an Adamant Choice Banded Brave Bird can only muster 28%, although the rare Double Edge 2HKOs it with Stealth Rock 99% of the time. Even Regirock, Slowbro, Relicanth, Steelix, Miltank -- All 2HKOed.

Crobat is an excellent support lead, but I doubt it should be moved up. Sure, it's damn good, but it isn't breaking anything, and can certainly be exploited with its Ice, Rock, and Electric weakness.

 

[Pokedra]

Okay, out of all the Suspects, I feel the only one really deserving of being moved up is Staraptor. Gallade is good and all, but anything faster than it with a strong move (read: Staraptor, Sharpedo, Scyther, etc...) murder it in a single hit. Shadow Sneak is good for Ghosts and all, but it's no Sucker Punch, meaning it won't be doing a good deal of damage after a Swords Dance to neutral targets. Night Slash is another option, and honestly, the better option. Gallade has the bulk to live even Specs Shadow Balls from Mismagius, so uh, the extra power comes in handy against Slowbro and co. (I deserve a medal for that rhyme).

Yeah Staraptor should be moved up. Gallade is slow but not many Pokemon enjoy getting hit when it Sword Dances but yeah its Speed lets it down but it proably will be moved up.

Staraptor's realistic counter is Luxray. Luxray with Intimidate is the safest bet, as an Adamant Choice Banded Brave Bird can only muster 28%, although the rare Double Edge 2HKOs it with Stealth Rock 99% of the time. Even Regirock, Slowbro, Relicanth, Steelix, Miltank -- All 2HKOed.

Yeah, Luxray makes a pretty decent counter.

Crobat is an excellent support lead, but I doubt it should be moved up. Sure, it's damn good, but it isn't breaking anything, and can certainly be exploited with its Ice, Rock, and Electric weakness.

Yeah, but he has Taunt, U-Turn and can put things to sleep plus that insane speed. I don't realy care about Crobat really.

EDIT : Oh yeah I'm not too sure about Shaymin. He wasn't listed as a Top Suspect but I doubt he's far behind.

 

[Anti]

Are we still talking about counters? Does that ever go away? >_>

Yeah Staraptor doesn't have any good counters, but I sure as hell don't care considering that Flying and Normal are two pretty poor attack types. The problem I have in general with banning Choice Banders for being overpowered is that they have to predict perfectly to be the amazing force that people say they are, and that is nearly impossible. for that reason I find it being "overpowered" to be borderlining on theorymon when it's really easy to outsmart. Even if you are outsmarted, it can't take a hit from anything and can only really come in on revenge or from Earthquake. Staraptor is still incredibly easy to wear down and kill if you ask me. and you have to remember, CBers have to get in safely to do damage, and Staraptor is frail. very frail. Like I said, EQ is all it's coming in on (and maybe a Missy Shadow Ball or something).

Raikou has been tolerable for me but very effective nonetheless. Its Speed it really devastating.

 

[.]

Yeah, but he has Taunt, U-Turn and can put things to sleep plus that insane speed. I don't realy care about Crobat really.

EDIT : Oh yeah I'm not too sure about Shaymin. He wasn't listed as a Top Suspect but I doubt he's far behind.

Shaymin is definately good, I'm a tad surprised Froslass is a suspect, but Shaymin isn't =[.

Brave Bird + Hypnosis is illegal.

Are we still talking about counters? Does that ever go away? >_>

It doesn't

Yeah Staraptor doesn't have any good counters, but I sure as hell don't care considering that Flying and Normal are two pretty poor attack types.

Everything that resists Flying/Normal is 2HKOed by Close Combat =]

The problem I have in general with banning Choice Banders for being overpowered is that they have to predict perfectly to be the amazing force that people say they are, and that is nearly impossible. for that reason I find it being "overpowered" to be borderlining on theorymon when it's really easy to outsmart. Even if you are outsmarted, it can't take a hit from anything and can only really come in on revenge or from Earthquake. Staraptor is still incredibly easy to wear down and kill if you ask me. and you have to remember, CBers have to get in safely to do damage, and Staraptor is frail. very frail. Like I said, EQ is all it's coming in on (and maybe a Missy Shadow Ball or something).

True, however, if it just comes in, like after something goes down/comes in from U-Turn, the OPPONENT also has to play a guessing game. Will it Brave Bird, will it Close Combat, will it Double Edge, will it Sub...There are numerous ways for Staraptor to kill an opponent, and the same logic that "a person has to predict when using a Pokemon for attacking" can be used for "a person has to predict when using a Pokemon for defending"

Raikou has been tolerable for me but very effective nonetheless. Its Speed it really devastating.

Chansey says hello

Yep

 

[Lila]

[
There's got to reasons for them to be too powerful for UU right? Here are some reason why.

Staraptor

Staraptor is a powerhouse in UU. Its good base stats of 120 Attack and 100 Speed makes him both fast and incredibly powerful. Staraptor also has Intimidate which somewhats helps its paltry Defense.

CB Staraptor is so powerful nearly all of UU is 2HKO'ed by it (barring defensive Rotom and Luxray). Steel-types can't wall it because it has Close Combat. Brave Bird is an extremely powerful attack that will pummel anything that doesn't resist it. Return offers a move that is still powerful but doesn't has recoil damage.

This is probably the one pokemon that I 100% think should be moved up to BL. Yes, Staraptor does hit itself with recoil, but it still can do an incredible amount of damage in that time, and there aren't many counters for it. Carrying a pokemon with Ice Shard has helped me, but it's incredibly risky since it doesn't knock him out all the time - and since Staraptors usually have Close Combat, that's good bye to the Ice-type that tried to counter him!

I've dealt with a lot of these while playing in UU, and they've caused a lot of trouble for me, regardless of the team I have used. : /

Froslass

Froslass is an awesome lead with Base 110 Speed and Focus Sash she can nearly always lay down one layer of Spikes. Immunity to Fake Out and Destiny Bond means she can usually take out another Pokemon as well as setting spikes up.

I think Froslass is a great pokemon, but honestly I do not think she should be moved up. She's incredibly frail, and predictable. Almost every intelligent opponent I've faced has been able to predict when Froslass is going to use Destiny Bond. I've encountered a lot of SR usage in UU, too, which is not good for Froslass. Sure, she can get a layer of Spikes down most of the time, but does that really mean she's overpowered for the tier, especially when you can just rapid spin the spikes away relatively easily?

I think Froslass is a threat to the UU metagame, but I don't think she's too powerful for it. Snow Cloak can get annoying with Froslass, but the majority of Froslass that I encounter aren't even on Hail teams.

Crobat

Crobat is another great lead, it can outrun all of UU nearly (barring Choice Scarf) with its insane 130 Speed. Crobat can stop Pokemon setting up with Taunt and can usually recover off the damage it takes with Roost. He can induce sleep with Hypnosis.

I've encountered tons of these in UU, too. Not as many as some of the other pokemon listed here, but enough to have an experienced opinion about them. Personally, Crobat doesn't give me that much trouble. Yes, he's incredibly fast, knows Taunt, Hypnosis and U-turn, but I don't think he's that much of a threat. He's relatively frail, and Hypnosis doesn't have great accuracy, anyway.

Perhaps I'm a little biased on this one since much of the time when I encounter Crobat leads they start off with Taunt, thinking that my pokemon will try to use a non-attacking move, only to get a big hit to the face. Sure, Crobat is a pain at times, but he's incredibly predictable, and isn't that sturdy. Pokemon like Staraptor have the same move-set most of the time, but in my opinion they have the stats and lack of good counters to pull it off.

Gallade

In the early days of UU testing, people feared two Pokemon that would impact the UU metagame: Gallade and Staraptor. Gallade can Swords Dance then proceed to sweep with his vast movepool, including Close Combat, Leaf Blade, Shadow Sneak and Stone Edge. He has many other options and with 766 Attack after a Swords Dance and Life Orb. Not many Pokemon enjoy taking a hit from Gallade.

Surprisingly, I haven't dealt with Gallade that much, despite everyone making it out like he's an incredibly overused pokemon in the UU tier. Anyway, my knowledge about him is limited since I haven't battled him too many tries, but I'll give my opinion anyway.

As said by people above, Gallade is very slow. Shadow Sneak is a priority move and can deal with ghosts, but it honestly doesn't do much good, since it doesn't have STAB and isn't a very powerful move anyway. Gallade can be a nuisance if you give it too much time to set up - but so are many pokemon. I found him relatively easy to deal with, but I haven't dealt with him on many occasions... but I have seen what he can do by watching battles, so I do think he deserves to be on the suspect list, and to be tested.

Abomasnow

His ability is perfect for Hail teams, and Abomasnow has decent support options. He can SubSeed and can use his two STAB 120 power moves to crush other Pokemon. A very handy Pokemon, and it helps Walrein a lot.

Perhaps I'm biased on this one since I love Abomasnow on my Hail team, but I really don't think Abomasnow is overpowered. It's slow, and its stats aren't amazing - but you have to take into account that Abomasnow has seven weaknesses, one of which is a double weakness. He's incredibly easy to take out, and is not good 90% of the time for switching in, unless you somehow know your opponent's move-set.

His ability is very powerful, but I don't think that he's as overpowered as people make him out to be. While my Abomasnow is very useful on my team, I don't really use him that often other than for starting Hail, or finishing off a pokemon with Ice Shard. I've been up against other Abomasnow, too, and they're incredibly easy to take out with one hit unless they're running protect or managed to use Substitute before you attacked. He is a very powerful pokemon, but again, I don't think that he's too powerful. Also, with the abundance of SR that I've noticed in the UU tier, Abomasnow is not that strong.

Raikou

CM Raikou is nearly unstoppable in UU with 115 base Special Attack and Speed and a respectable 100 base Special Defense. Add on Calm Mind and Leftovers and it becomes really hard to beat him on the Special side. His movepool isn't very good but he doesn't need it when he can totally destroy most UU Pokemon with what he has.


This pokemon can be incredibly annoying to deal with. He's fast, has strong special attack and special defense, and decent HP. His only low stat is defense, but it really isn't that low for a pokemon with three high stats. He only has one weakness, too, so most of the time when a Raikou switches in on me I have to switch out, either because I know he'll be able to knock out my pokemon with one hit, or because my pokemon can't do any damage to it.

Of course, when you switch out against Raikou, you give it a free turn to set up, either by using Substitute, or Calm Mind. I've been able to kill Raikou before, but it always proves to be an enormous pain unless I manage to status it before it knocks my pokemon out or has the Substitute up. Perhaps he doesn't need to move up to BL, but I think that he needs to be very thoroughly tested.


So, to sum it up, here are the pokemon that I think that deserve to either be moved up to BL, or very carefully tested: Staraptor, Gallade, Raikou

There are my opinions, in bold. :)

 

[Anti]

I'm just saying but Blissey walls Soul Dew Latios in OUs, I don't see how Chansey walling Raikou is a whole lot different =/ I know you can wall it with Registeel and Chansey (the former taking a lot of damage in the process though), but it's a pain in the neck to stop without either of them, and it's basically impossible to revenge kill unless you sacrifice a Choice Scarfer to break its Sub and whatnot. this isn't OUs where Raikou had Heatran and Tyranitar to lol at it - this is UUs and it's really a very good sweeper. Is it good enough to be banned? I don't know to be honest. But wiriting it off because "Chansey says hello" is utterly ridiculous.

I know exactly what Staraptor KOs, it just doesn't matter to me when it is insanely hard to get in to do the damage it wants to, and it has to murder itself to do that damage (since it relies on Brave Bird for basically all of its kills except for those on the Steels and Rock-types). CC is really helpful for them, but again, it's a guessing game, and Staraptor is going getting 2 or three chances to do damage (sometimes less). It's not CBChomp where SR did nothing basically and it could take repeated assaults - Staraptor has the defenses of Gengar.

I agree that the prediction argument goes both ways, but I still think it applies, but again, Staraptor has to get into the battle in one piece in order to pose a significant threat (and even U-Turning to it is insanely risky). Staraptor is kind of like a worse Garchomp. Garchomp could at least get in the battle and not take ridiculous SR damage the whole time. Staraptor's ability to sweep is incredibly and I would be foolish to deny it, but it never gets the opportunity to...and when it does, it often has to kill itself doing so. Threatening? Absolutely. Broken? Absolutely not. Staraptor can do a ton of damage, but it dies so fast...its impact can be huge even in a short amount of time, but I find the likes of Shaymin and even Raikou to be much more troublesome than Staraptor. Oh, one more thing...you can just use a death fodder to scout its move (and I don't mean full health Espeon, I mean 20% Milotic). It has been a really useful strategy not only against Staraptor but CBers in general. Staraptor is especially hampered because of SR and ghuifgkfjghks defenses though. Another way to rob it of 25% health is to predict it switching in once it's been out (which is seriously the easiest thing in the world to do) and send in something that will scare it away as it switches in. Not foolproof but certainly useful. Ugh, SR screws over Staraptor so badly.

Honestly, it's kind of hard to argue that Staraptor should not be banned because on paper it's absolutely terrifying...but from the "eye test" this thing is a lot like what Salamence is to OUs. Actually, there are a lot of similarities (and quite a few differences I admit, lol). I know I've only mentioned its SR weakness and paper thin defenses a million times, but it really does make all the difference, especially with bulkier alternatives like Gallade and Shaymin waiting to be added to your team.

And I don't care if Staraptor doesn't have counters. I care if it overcentralizes the metagame (which I haven't seen AT ALL to be honest...I don't think many teams would change much regardless of whether or not it was allowed, and how they play I also doubt would change really at all) and if it passes the "eye test". "It can 2HKO almost everything in OUs!" is theorymon as far as I'm concerned since the key word is can, and it rarely has done any significant damage to my team (whose Staraptor defense is Registeel + Spiritomb btw).

 

[Pokedra]

Maybe you've had no trouble but some people really have trouble with Staraptor.

 

[.]

I'm just saying but Blissey walls Soul Dew Latios in OUs, I don't see how Chansey walling Raikou is a whole lot different =/ I know you can wall it with Registeel and Chansey (the former taking a lot of damage in the process though), but it's a pain in the neck to stop without either of them, and it's basically impossible to revenge kill unless you sacrifice a Choice Scarfer to break its Sub and whatnot. this isn't OUs where Raikou had Heatran and Tyranitar to lol at it - this is UUs and it's really a very good sweeper. Is it good enough to be banned? I don't know to be honest. But wiriting it off because "Chansey says hello" is utterly ridiculous.

Fantastic ability to sense a joke.

I know exactly what Staraptor KOs, it just doesn't matter to me when it is insanely hard to get in to do the damage it wants to, and it has to murder itself to do that damage (since it relies on Brave Bird for basically all of its kills except for those on the Steels and Rock-types). CC is really helpful for them, but again, it's a guessing game, and Staraptor is going getting 2 or three chances to do damage (sometimes less). It's not CBChomp where SR did nothing basically and it could take repeated assaults - Staraptor has the defenses of Gengar.

Uh, you're REALLY exaggerating the recoil damage from Brave Bird. The standard Staraptor has 312 HP, when using Brave Bird on max HP / max Defense Slowbro, Staraptor takes 81 damage from recoil assuming it rolls maximum damage. 81 is not even half of Staraptor's total HP, in fact, it's not even a third of its total HP. Staraptor deals 246 damage to the standard Spiritomb if rolling max damage. A third of that is 82. Staraptor can do that twice, and only receive 164 damage total, a little over half its HP. Now, you may think "It's killing itself, it can't sweep", which is wrong, since now Staraptor has killed a wall on the opponents team. It's served its purpose.

I agree that the prediction argument goes both ways, but I still think it applies, but again, Staraptor has to get into the battle in one piece in order to pose a significant threat (and even U-Turning to it is insanely risky). Staraptor is kind of like a worse Garchomp. Garchomp could at least get in the battle and not take ridiculous SR damage the whole time.

The same could be said for Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos, and Dragonite, yet they all remain prominent threats in OU.

Staraptor's ability to sweep is incredibly and I would be foolish to deny it, but it never gets the opportunity to...and when it does, it often has to kill itself doing so. Threatening? Absolutely. Broken? Absolutely not.

If Staraptor can kill 3-4 Pokemon on your team, I'd call that kind of ridiculous. Let's not forget it doesn't only use Brave Bird. It can still use Return, which deals a hefty amount to everything that doesn't resist it, and kills fragile sweepers such as Medicham, Blaziken, and co.

Staraptor can do a ton of damage, but it dies so fast...its impact can be huge even in a short amount of time, but I find the likes of Shaymin and even Raikou to be much more troublesome than Staraptor.

Unlike Staraptor, Raikou and Shaymin have counters.

Oh, one more thing...you can just use a death fodder to scout its move (and I don't mean full health Espeon, I mean 20% Milotic). It has been a really useful strategy not only against Staraptor but CBers in general.

Okay, same could be said for any CBer.

Staraptor is especially hampered because of SR and ghuifgkfjghks defenses though. Another way to rob it of 25% health is to predict it switching in once it's been out (which is seriously the easiest thing in the world to do) and send in something that will scare it away as it switches in. Not foolproof but certainly useful. Ugh, SR screws over Staraptor so badly.

This is certainly true, there's nothing I can disagree with there.

Honestly, it's kind of hard to argue that Staraptor should not be banned because on paper it's absolutely terrifying...but from the "eye test" this thing is a lot like what Salamence is to OUs. Actually, there are a lot of similarities (and quite a few differences I admit, lol). I know I've only mentioned its SR weakness and paper thin defenses a million times, but it really does make all the difference, especially with bulkier alternatives like Gallade and Shaymin waiting to be added to your team.

There still is literally no counter to Salamence, if only because his versatility is too damn sheer. Staraptor has the versatility of a brain dead chimp, yet its sheer power kills practically everything that doesn't resist its moveset. I guess the same could be said about DD Mence, but things like Hippowdon and Cresselia can live DD boosted Life Orb Outrages and OHKO assuming Salamence isn't running Yache.

And I don't care if Staraptor doesn't have counters. I care if it overcentralizes the metagame (which I haven't seen AT ALL to be honest...I don't think many teams would change much regardless of whether or not it was allowed, and how they play I also doubt would change really at all) and if it passes the "eye test". "It can 2HKO almost everything in OUs!" is theorymon as far as I'm concerned since the key word is can, and it rarely has done any significant damage to my team (whose Staraptor defense is Registeel + Spiritomb btw).

My teem beets garchomp its cloyster / cresselia / hippowdon / mamoswine / weavile / scarfchomp. i hvae no troublez wit garchomp unban it it not brok3n.

If you take that seriously I'll Brave Bird your face.

 

[SkyPioneer]

Froslass :D...Abomasnow :D...
Let's ask this question: are Abnomasnow+Froslass even more broken for UU? If so, we only have another reason to promote both to BL.
Gallade beeing UU is ridicilous. I swept Ubers with it once, great typing+great movepool+able to CB, CS or SD+STAB CC=great Pokemon. Definitly one of my favs, if it was me to decide Gallade would've been OU.
I'm suprised Lapras, Milotic and Walrein aren't going BL. Gardevoir (Gallade's younger sis) should also go BL. Arcanine also seems a bit overpowered for UU.

Lol, I love it when you post, just so I can read things like "Gallade's younger sis", lol.
But on the subject. Having two ice types means that a third of your team is SR weak, and SR is quite common in UU, from what I've seen.
Anyway, just because you played with ubers with gallade does not prove a thing. Quagsire and Parasect are actually quite powerful in ubers when played correctly but that doesn't mean that they're any better in their own tier.
As for Lapras, Milotic and Walrein, care for some explanation? Same for Arcanine.

but oooooh i cant bear 2 c my luvly littl ice princesss go 2 bl !!!! <3
Just kidding, dude. :P

 

[Dark Azelf]

Yeah i deleted that post since it had nothing to back up claims. He is on really thin ice (lolpun), but seriously stop posting garbage "Walrein", there was nothing to contribute to the topic in your post and you know it, you didnt even back your claims up so how can you expect to be taken seriously? If you post something that awful again ill just infract you, you have been told countless times. Please learn how to S+M =/

Im surprized Ludicolo isnt on this list because a few battlers have been complaining about it lately. Its very versatile and it can hit from both ends of the spectrum (SD Ludi is no joke and hits VERY hard, especially in the rain) and can also run other sets like sub seed to screw you up. In addition its type coverage is great and thanks to that unique typing its a real pain to get rid of.

Having said that, i would love to see a weather ban in uu (another point that has been brought up before by a few battlers). Its very centralizing and the pokemon that can be abused with each type of the respective weather is kinda stupid.



Also you might want to add Froslass broken ability to "reasons" too, because as was with Garchomp, that DOES contribute to it being suspect.

 

[Shen]

Staraptor is just the Salamence of UU.
Froslass is only a real pain in Hail were hax screws you over. Destiny Bond is annoying though, can't we just ban that?
Crobat and Gallade should go up, although the Hypnosis drop is painful.
Abomasnow REALLY needs to be out of UU. Stat-wise, it is average, movepool-wise it's average, typing-wise it's pretty bad. But the auto-hail is the killer. Hail teams seem to be dominate UU and they rely on the snowman here. To my knowledge, there is no counter to a Hail Team in UU that cannot be easily checked. Moving up Abomasnow isn't really moving up a single Pokemon, but moving up the most effective Hail team, which is what UU needs.