UU Suspects Discussion

[Anti]

Raikou will be moved up, its got great Speed, Special Attack and Special Defence. The CM sweeper is deadly, its move pool is shallow but despite that its way too strong for UU. However it does actually have a counter unlike Staraptor.

Great stats don't make for something to be moved up. you're going to have to elaborate on that a litte more (as in something to convince somebody neutral like me that it should be banned). what exactly makes it so broken? etc etc

Because everybody piling on a two-sentence post about what they think probably isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Pokedra]

Great stats don't make for something to be moved up. you're going to have to elaborate on that a litte more (as in something to convince somebody neutral like me that it should be banned). what exactly makes it so broken? etc etc

Because everybody piling on a two-sentence post about what they think probably isn't going to go anywhere.

It's faster then most of UU and can use Specs and Scarf very well. It can take hits on the special side better then most normal UU Pokemon, with Calm Mind(which it always seems to have) it can sweep a great portion of your team with 1-2 Calm Minds under its belt.

 

[Anti]

It's faster then most of UU and can use Specs and Scarf very well. It can take hits on the special side better then most normal UU Pokemon, with Calm Mind(which it always seems to have) it can sweep a great portion of your team with 1-2 Calm Minds under its belt.

>_________>

You're just listing its characteristics. You have to actually connect it to (what I assume would be) the offensive characteristic. I mean we already know that and that's why it's a suspect, but that hardly justifies a ban for it.

We can't just go off banning stuff that's good because we don't want to have to worry about it when team building or new UU will turn into old UU very quickly. Raikou has to be better than good at its job, it has to be too good at its job. That's what you have to prove.

 

[.]

Raikou is a total monster, but the thing is, it has a good deal of counters and checks. Psych Up Regice with Seismic Toss, Registeel and Regirock with Earthquake (the latter should be in Sandstorm, honestly), and even Chansey pretty much handle Raikou comfortably. This doesn't make Raikou any less threatening. Offensive teams get absolutely destroyed by Raikou. Bulky waters like Milotic get set up on, things like Shaymin are outrun and usually scared off by HP Ice / Signal Beam, and all common sweepers like Gallade, Staraptor, and Blaziken are outrun and OHKOed by a Calm Mind Thunderbolt (bar Gallade, and sometimes Blaziken...I don't know).

The SubCM set is easy to set up, really easy. So many things give it ample switch-in opprotunities. Something like a Blaziken locked in Overheat after the Special Attack drop is a god-send. Once you get this opprotunity, you should be salivating (yes, SALIVATING) on the keyboard, because now you get a free set up. Not a lot of things outrun it either, so if they rely on Special Attacks like Earth Power or a STAB __, chances are, they're done for. Common physical attackers get ripped to shreds by +2 Thunderbolt/Hidden Power.

I don't know if it should be BL, but Raikou is a total beast.

 

[Archer]

Raikou is a total monster, but the thing is, it has a good deal of counters and checks. Psych Up Regice with Seismic Toss, Registeel and Regirock with Earthquake (the latter should be in Sandstorm, honestly), and even Chansey pretty much handle Raikou comfortably. This doesn't make Raikou any less threatening. Offensive teams get absolutely destroyed by Raikou. Bulky waters like Milotic get set up on, things like Shaymin are outrun and usually scared off by HP Ice / Signal Beam, and all common sweepers like Gallade, Staraptor, and Blaziken are outrun and OHKOed by a Calm Mind Thunderbolt (bar Gallade, and sometimes Blaziken...I don't know).

The SubCM set is easy to set up, really easy. So many things give it ample switch-in opprotunities. Something like a Blaziken locked in Overheat after the Special Attack drop is a god-send. Once you get this opprotunity, you should be salivating (yes, SALIVATING) on the keyboard, because now you get a free set up. Not a lot of things outrun it either, so if they rely on Special Attacks like Earth Power or a STAB __, chances are, they're done for. Common physical attackers get ripped to shreds by +2 Thunderbolt/Hidden Power.

I don't know if it should be BL, but Raikou is a total beast.

This is all quite true. For the record, Icy Wind Variants of Regice also make a fool of Raikou. Provided it doesn't get in too many CMs to break the Sub easily.
Unlike Staraptor, it doesn't usually post an instant threat and can be dealt with fairly easily if you know what you're doing. Also, I tend to find that +1 TBolts come short of OHKOing many pokemon that can OHKO it in return. It's a menacing threat, but I never really find it too overpowering.

I vote UU on Raikou. :D

 

[.]

This is all quite true. For the record, Icy Wind Variants of Regice also make a fool of Raikou. Provided it doesn't get in too many CMs to break the Sub easily.
Unlike Staraptor, it doesn't usually post an instant threat and can be dealt with fairly easily if you know what you're doing. Also, I tend to find that +1 TBolts come short of OHKOing many pokemon that can OHKO it in return. It's a menacing threat, but I never really find it too overpowering.

I vote UU on Raikou. :D

Who the hell uses Icy Wind Regice? Psych Up + Seismic Toss is what counters Raikou ._.

 

[Samson]

i can't believe abomasnow and froslass are even on this list. they have their roles and challenging usages but they are in no shape or form threats to the UU metagame.

the rest, however, i could see the BL argument for.

 

[Pokedra]

i can't believe abomasnow and froslass are even on this list. they have their roles and challenging usages but they are in no shape or form threats to the UU metagame.

the rest, however, i could see the BL argument for.

Yes they do. Abombasnow is a excellent supporter with its ability and Subseeding and Froslass is one of best leads(if not the best) in UU.

 

[Lila]

Yes they do. Abombasnow is a excellent supporter with its ability and Subseeding and Froslass is one of best leads(if not the best) in UU.

Maybe it's just me, but I really do not see how Abomasnow is somehow an excellent supporter just because it can SubSeed. Yes, its ability is fantastic, but Abomasnow has an incredible amount of weaknesses. It's a very risky pokemon to use, I find, as a ton of pokemon can one-shot him, and it's difficult to predict if an opponent has a move that will be super effective against it at times, since he has so many weaknesses! : / SubSeed Abomasnow can be very good, but it relies on too much luck to be broken, in my opinion.

 

[Pokedra]

Maybe it's just me, but I really do not see how Abomasnow is somehow an excellent supporter just because it can SubSeed. Yes, its ability is fantastic, but Abomasnow has an incredible amount of weaknesses. It's a very risky pokemon to use, I find, as a ton of pokemon can one-shot him, and it's difficult to predict if an opponent has a move that will be super effective against it at times, since he has so many weaknesses! : / SubSeed Abomasnow can be very good, but it relies on too much luck to be broken, in my opinion.

The ability is really what makes him good. He can support decently but if he didn't have Snow Warning he'd just be an average UU Pokemon.

 

[Lila]

The ability is really what makes him good. He can support decently but if he didn't have Snow Warning he'd just be an average UU Pokemon.

I agree that the ability makes him good, but I honestly do not think that Abomasnow is that great at supporting. He can learn leech seed and substitute, yes, but that doesn't automatically make him a great support pokemon. He has an incredible amount of weaknesses, and is slow so you can't scout for moves with substitute most of the time. Maybe it's just my opinion on what a supporting pokemon is, but a supporter supports the team (obviously), and thus they have to be able to take a few hits. Abomasnow honestly can't, and you can almost never switch him in unless you absolutely 100% know that the attack coming at him won't be super effective.

Also, I'm not trying to be rude here but you shouldn't first say that he's an excellent support pokemon, and then switch to that he's a decent supporter in the next post. It's quite contradictory and it makes things confusing when your opinion switches in the span of one post. x_x

 

[luke]

i can't believe abomasnow and froslass are even on this list. they have their roles and challenging usages but they are in no shape or form threats to the UU metagame.

the rest, however, i could see the BL argument for.

I just want Abomasnow out of UU because I don't want any auto-weather starters in my UU. >:o

Froslass is only up there because of Abomasnow. I can't believe people overlooked Ludicolo and Roserade.

 

[Lila]

I just want Abomasnow out of UU because I don't want any auto-weather starters in my UU. >:o

Froslass is only up there because of Abomasnow. I can't believe people overlooked Ludicolo and Roserade.

Out of curiosity, would Snover be banned if Abomasnow was? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, but I'm curious.

I've seen so many Hippopotas on teams, so even if Abomasnow is banned I predict there will lots of Snovers running around to irritate people who think that hail teams will disappear. >_> Obviously they won't be as effective as Abomasnow, but they'll still be used to start Hail and refresh it, anyway.

Also, while Froslass's ability is great combined with Abomasnow, almost all the time when I actually do see a Froslass, she's not on a Hail team. Of course she still screws me over since I use a Hail team in UU frequently, lol. Snow Cloak hax is quite irritating, but it seems most Froslass are leads anyway, so they'll only activate that ability if Abomasnow is the other team's starter, or if they decide to switch out and switch back in later on if there is Abomasnow on their own team, which is quite rare since they're mostly suicide leads.

Ludicolo and Roserade are pretty big threats in UU, but honestly I can't say that I've encountered many or have had trouble. Roserade is pretty powerful, but she is very frail to physical attacks so isn't too difficult to take down. Ludicolo seems to only be on rain teams, which he is a big pain on, but otherwise I never see him. I've noticed every day that there are many more weather based teams in UU, with most of them being rain, then hail, then sunny day. I think the thing about Ludicolo is that it relies on Rain Dance for speed, so if you manage to remove that I find he's not much of a threat at all. I'm also encountering more teams which aren't weather based, but have a pokemon with Sunny Day to nullify other weather effects. It's quite a good strategy since it screws over Hail and Rain Dance teams, but not many people are catching onto it yet.

 

[Pokedra]

I just want Abomasnow out of UU because I don't want any auto-weather starters in my UU. >:o

Froslass is only up there because of Abomasnow. I can't believe people overlooked Ludicolo and Roserade.

Abomasnow should be BL I agree. It's abiltiy helps Walrein and Froslass alot.

I reckon Roserade is overlooked, she isn't that bad. Good Special Attack and Special Defence and decent Speed plus she can Subseed and support.

 

[Samson]

I just want Abomasnow out of UU because I don't want any auto-weather starters in my UU. >:o

Froslass is only up there because of Abomasnow. I can't believe people overlooked Ludicolo and Roserade.

O_O roserade ISN'T BL? news to me. i haven't been up on the changes to the ladder so i'm pretty surprised that they'd make that mistake. i mean, really, it's no shaymin but just a few notches off from it.

i wish they would just make more pokes with auto-weather abilities. UU Drought would be AWESOME.

 

[luke]

Well, I'm not sure if you know, but BL/UU/NFE were all merged. And since Roserade was BL before the merge, it's technically "UU" now.

 

[Samson]

oh yeah, that's right. keke, that changes a lot now doesn't it? :D