Vance's Stall Team: Hippowdon's Bringing Sexy Back

[.]

(for those in the dark, this is a farm stall)

Vance's (sexy) Stall Team
(Lol Scizor)
(Lol Salamence)
(Lol Skymin)​

Stall teams are pretty basic in design; Hippowdon + Support is all you need (okay maybe that's exaggerating a bit much). However, now in Platinum, things like Salamence, Scizor, and Skymin got hooked on steroids and started ripping things part by part. Lucario smacks around Gliscor with his (broken) Ice Punch, Tyranitar got Aqua Tail solely to spite poor old Hippowdon. Rhyperior is seen everywhere (but it's not threatening in the least lol). Also, Kingdra got a major boost, and is unstopabble, at least when using *theorymon*, and that lovable UU Ghost Rotom got a few counterparts that can wall things and smack around physical sweepers (although it now introduces Tyranitar). In the midst of this overpowering, overrated metagame, HIPPOWDON AND HIS FOLLOWERS STAND TALL:​

>THE HEAD HONCHO<

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpD
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Roar/Ice Fang
Slack Off​

Why Hippowdon: A better question would be "Why not Hippowdon?" Simply put, it's a beast that offers this team unmatched physical walling support. Max HP and Max Defense makes him the hardest thing to take down, physically. With no Life Orb, this guy can easily take out Salamence, as even a Dragon Dance'd Outrage has a slight (I warn you, slight) chance to only 3HKO after Leftovers damage. He completely laughs at Scizor, and Roars that overused bug out while also scouting its moves. Ice Fang might be used solely for Salamence, who is very problomatic. Hippowdon also massacres Tyranitar, although that rare Aqua Tail hurts. This guy is the star of the team, partly because he's a beast, and partly because he's awesome (okay I admit it, he's AWESOME).​

Possible Changes: There is no way in hell I'm getting rid of Hippowdon. Don't suggest him to leave, or I'll Earthquake your face. Although I may add Fire Fang somewhere to make​

>THE SPINNING SQUID<

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Calm
204 HP/96 SpA/172 SpD/36 Spe
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Surf
Ice Beam​

Why Tentacruel: I know Tentacruel sucks most of the time, but man can he support a team. Toxic Spikes is a huge part of any stall team, especially this one. Rapid Spin support is important, as pesky Spikes and Stealth Rock are just another thorn in my side. Absorbing Toxic Spikes on the switch in is amazing. It also competely laughs at SubSeed Skymin, making it hurt itself while Tentacruel smirks at its attempts to hurt it with Air Slash/Seed Flare (the latter DOES get annoying). This guy really loves Wish support from Blissey, curse you Nintendo for not giving him Recover!​

Possible Changes: Oh Tentacruel, I wish I could quit you ;_;. Sadly I can't, as you provide too many useful options for the team. Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes make you an ideal member of any stall team, as well as that excellent Special Defense stat and the ability to outrun Jolly Tyranitar (and swiftly OHKO with Rapid Spin).​

>THE METAL CHICKEN<

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spe
Brave Bird
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind​

Why Skarmory: Honestly, I'm asking myself the same question. It seems to be the weakest link on my team, with its inability to wall things like it did in ADV. Spikes is still ever so useful, however, as is Phazing support. With the current EV spread, a LO Gyarados's Waterfall can never 2HKO after Leftovers are put in account (Aqua Tail is a different story though). Brave Bird makes this a semi-decent, last minute counter for a Choice Banded Heracross (although Close Combat is an easy 2HKO). Skarmory can also take on things such as Choice Band Salamence and not be 2HKO'd by Fire Fang, Roosting off the damage and then Whirlwinding it out. Skarmory also makes a sexy Scizor/Skymin counter, but the latter isn't going to really mind taking it out with repeated Seed Flares/Air Slashes.​

Possible Changes: I'm disappointed with Skarmory. It seems as if every physical threat in the game tears a whole through the poor thing. Although I must admit, Skarmory makes one hell of a SubDD Kingdra counter. After a Dragon Dance, Waterfall can only manage 35.03% max. As far as Spikes go, I'm getting desperate in searching for something to go over it. Literally, I'm close to using Cloyster.​

>THE DEMON FROM HELL<

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm
82 SpA/252 Def/176 SpD
Flamethrower
Softboiled
Seismic Toss
Aromatherapy​

Why Blissey: Don't let that chubby, slightly attractive sprite fool you, Blissey is a beast! Tanking special hits like nothing while either healing the team up with Aromatherapy, or. Unlike Snorlax, Blissey doesn't roll over to Specs Alakazam/Gengar, nor does it get spanked handily by Porygon-Z. Thunder Wave seems like a really tempting option, but I don't know WHERE to put it. Blissey needs to support the team as a whole really. Aww, I never thought this blob would suffer moveslot syndrome. Nevertheless, being the best special wall as well as being one of the most reliable team supporters is impressive, even if she's fat.​

Possible Replacements: Not anytime soon will I be replacing Blissey. She's just that amazing. I may want to fit in Thunder Wave, maybe over Aromatherapy, but I don't know where to add it =[​

>THE BAKER<

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpA
Thunderbolt
Overheat
Reflect
Rest​

Why Rotom-h: Well, there's no direct answer for that, mainly because all of the Rotom's are so damn awesome. Oven Rotom, however, has access to Overheat, making it a fantastic Lucario/Heracross check. Reflect lets me escape Tyranitar, Metagross, and Weavile easier. Overheat means that Scizor can't switch in...like at all. Thunderbolt over Discharge since the extra power can make a difference, plus I have so many conflicting status with Toxic and Burn, paralysis is just plain uneeded. Rest is there to abuse the completely awesome Aromatherapy support given by Blissey.​

Possible Changes: I'm comfortable with Rotom-h. He hasn't failed me once, and he's one hell of a fun guy to use. I don't really want to do a Trick Scarf set again, but it could work to cripple Blissey, whom he lures quite nicely.​

>THE CARNIVOROUS PLANT<

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spe
Power Whip
Rest
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed​

Why Tangrowth: Tangrowth is a real monster of a plant. It's bulkier than Skarmory, can counter Gyarados if need be, can sleep many threatening things, can Leech Seed, and then Rest, using Blissey's Aromatherapy as a quick heal. She does all of this while maintaining a sense of fashion and grace. Power Whip is a massively powerful STAB, with a surprisingly nice 10 PP (before the PP ups). With this spread, a Choice Band Scizor can only muster 65.84%-77.72% to Tangrowth with X-Scissor. Things like a Choice Band Tyranitar can never 2HKO (mustering only up to 49.75% maximum). Not only that, but Power Whip does enough to 2HKO 100% of the time. Yes, that's beast.​

Possible Replacements: I really doubt I'll replace Tangrowth. Celebi may seem better, but Tangrowth handles Gyara and such MUCH better (Tangrowth is never 2HKO'd by +1 LO Ice Fang).​

 

[Samson]

while i understand it is a stall team, you really need some raw power with a priority move. override all the maniacal switching practically involved. preferably a CBer.

 

[Archer]

I don't have time for a full rate, although I want to double check that you are factoring in SS when you make damage calculations. You said Tangrowth takes 49.75% from a CB Stone Edge?/Crunch? With SS in play, it becomes a 2HKO. Not good. I do realise you have the Legendary Hippo for TTar, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. Looks really solid, though. Good job.

 

[Lunar Fang]

I'm glad you finally decided to be a man and use Tentacruel. I'm only going to make a few points.

- Toxic/Flamethrower/Wish/Protect Bliss would suit your team pretty nicely imo. Just because you have Toxic Spikes doesn't mean that everything will get it's share of poison. Flamethrower is for steels. There is the issue of the ever omnipresent Heatran so Seismic Toss>Protect.

- Skam will always be the pillar of your stall. Respect it. >_> Excellent defense + It's typing is a benefit overall, not to mention it's utility.

-Not sure if it already does but tenta should have Liquid Ooze.

Solid as hell. <3 Vance

 

[Dark Azelf]

+ Tenta : - 204 HP / 108 DEF / 24 SP.ATT / 172 SP.DEF is the spread i use on tenta, is really helps cushioning Mixapes CC's and stuff. Never found Ice Beam useful on tenta, i prefer sludge bomb for STAB and the poison rate. But if its for mixmence, go ahead and keep it.

+ Blissey : - Aromatheraphy + Wish is illegal (egg move vs event move), so you could make Tangrowth into a Rest Talker to deal with status for you.. aka : -

Tangrowth@Leftovers
252 HP /252 DEF / 6 Sp.Def
Impish/Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Hidden power Ice / Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

+ Blissey : - use Seismic Toss/Flamethrower/Wish/Protect or Softboiled. The sp.att hits Gengar who kinda owns you atm due to your innability to hit it, especially sub gar lol. 252 DEF / 80 SP.AT / 176 Sp.Def =].

+ Hippowdon : - You want Ice Fang on Hippow for definate for mence. Or heck stone edge works if you are scared of Gyara switch ins. It still hits mence and you already have a phazer in skarmory, so no need for roar on hippow.

+ Rotom : - Have a kinda large Lucario weak 252 hp / 70 def/ 188 speed @Timid on rotom please to outpace it. (Since adamant + 2 lo crunch OHKO's it, and even if a jolly one finishes 'tom off , jolly cant get past hippow or skarm or cant OHKO rotom but just saying if it does finish it off, so yeah lol). Not like you even need the extra def for Gyarados since you have skarm and tangrowth too.

+ Rotom : - Toxic >> Will-o-wisp on Rotom please. Toxic is pretty much needed on something on a stall team, even WITH toxic spikes to hit flyers, stuff that floats namely zapdos are pains, and since w-o-w is just conflicting with posion damage and it does the same thing as Reflect in all honesty X].

+ The main problem here is the legendary "last poke sweep" sure you may laugh at me and this may not be G/S/C anymore, but when you come up against a last poke curselax or calm mind cune it wont be funny then since you cant phaze these. Which was why i was thinking Celebi >> growth for Perish Song, still being able to handle Gyarados to an extent (Bear in mind you have Skarm and Rotom to back up celebi with Gyarados too), and heal bell for status too.

Celebi@leftovers
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.ATT
Bold Nature
- Grass Knot
- Perish Song
- Heal bell
- Recover

Something like this ?

+ Skarmory : - I love how skarm kinda counters skymin too and although minimal, Obi's ev spread helps :- 252 hp /16 att / 200 def/ 40 sp.def.

+ Hippowdon : - Just a note, you could go 252 HP /152 DEF / 106 SP.DEF on Hippow, just for insurance incase you come up against a weird tar with Ice Beam.


Sorry for the TL;DR and no i couldnt put it in order, but in short "lern 2 stall newb" lol ;).


:15:

 

[Anti]

imo Tentacruel needs Ice Beam for a decent MixMence check (though if Draco crits you're screwed). I would use max HP on tEntacruel...I know it's a Leftovers number and all, but it really needs all the HP it can get.

As for the team, the design is much like ObiStall so it's obviously pretty solid. You are gonna have to choose between Aromatherapy and Wish on Blissey. I would use Aromatherapy and just use Toxic over Wish (which is going to be more valuable to a stall team than thunder wave, unless you want to shut down Lucario switch-ins but otherwise I don't see the point). Also, where you can fit it in, I'd use Rest on things you think absolutely need recovery that don't have it already (Rotom comes to mind).

Slight problem with last pokemon CurseLax/CMcune/etc., but given tangrowth's leech seed support and the general bulk of your team (plus the lack of actual curselax lol), I doubt it should hurt too much.

Also aaaaaaaaaaa centering RMTs aaaaaaaaaa

 

[.]

I don't have time for a full rate, although I want to double check that you are factoring in SS when you make damage calculations. You said Tangrowth takes 49.75% from a CB Stone Edge?/Crunch? With SS in play, it becomes a 2HKO. Not good. I do realise you have the Legendary Hippo for TTar, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. Looks really solid, though. Good job.

No it doesn't. It does 49.75% max, not including Leftovers. Sandstorm comes in effect, and then Leftovers recovers the rest of my HP. 3HKO

I'm glad you finally decided to be a man and use Tentacruel. I'm only going to make a few points.

- Toxic/Flamethrower/Wish/Protect Bliss would suit your team pretty nicely imo. Just because you have Toxic Spikes doesn't mean that everything will get it's share of poison. Flamethrower is for steels. There is the issue of the ever omnipresent Heatran so Seismic Toss>Protect.

I was thinking Aromatherapy is a waste, since...only Tangrowth is affected by status. Flamethrower/Toxic/Wish/Seismic Toss could work.

- Skam will always be the pillar of your stall. Respect it. >_> Excellent defense + It's typing is a benefit overall, not to mention it's utility.

It doesn't take hits well...like at all anymore. CBers 2HKO it almost always, and all the major physical attacks aren't even resisted.

-Not sure if it already does but tenta should have Liquid Ooze.

It does =]

Solid as hell. <3 Vance

<33

+ Tenta : - 204 HP / 108 DEF / 24 SP.ATT / 172 SP.DEF is the spread i use on tenta, is really helps cushioning Mixapes CC's and stuff. Never found Ice Beam useful on tenta, i prefer sludge bomb for STAB and the poison rate. But if its for mixmence, go ahead and keep it.

I was using it for MixMence.

+ Blissey : - Aromatheraphy + Wish is illegal (egg move vs event move), so you could make Tangrowth into a Rest Talker to deal with status for you.. aka : -

Tangrowth@Leftovers
252 HP /252 DEF / 6 Sp.Def
Impish/Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Hidden power Ice / Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

That sounds like a great idea, thank you.

+ Blissey : - use Seismic Toss/Flamethrower/Wish/Protect or Softboiled. The sp.att hits Gengar who kinda owns you atm due to your innability to hit it, especially sub gar lol. 252 DEF / 80 SP.AT / 176 Sp.Def =].

=]

+ Hippowdon : - You want Ice Fang on Hippow for definate for mence. Or heck stone edge works if you are scared of Gyara switch ins. It still hits mence and you already have a phazer in skarmory, so no need for roar on hippow.

Lol Gyara sucks, so I'm not really afraid of it.

+ Rotom : - Have a kinda large Lucario weak 252 hp / 70 def/ 188 speed @Timid on rotom please to outpace it. (Since adamant + 2 lo crunch OHKO's it, and even if a jolly one finishes 'tom off , jolly cant get past hippow or skarm or cant OHKO rotom but just saying if it does finish it off, so yeah lol). Not like you even need the extra def for Gyarados since you have skarm and tangrowth too.

It does? I guess the SD Luke I was fighting had Jolly since it did 80% max.

+ Rotom : - Toxic >> Will-o-wisp on Rotom please. Toxic is pretty much needed on something on a stall team, even WITH toxic spikes to hit flyers, stuff that floats namely zapdos are pains, and since w-o-w is just conflicting with posion damage and it does the same thing as Reflect in all honesty X].

Sure.

+ The main problem here is the legendary "last poke sweep" sure you may laugh at me and this may not be G/S/C anymore, but when you come up against a last poke curselax or calm mind cune it wont be funny then since you cant phaze these. Which was why i was thinking Celebi >> growth for Perish Song, still being able to handle Gyarados to an extent (Bear in mind you have Skarm and Rotom to back up celebi with Gyarados too), and heal bell for status too.

Celebi@leftovers
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.ATT
Bold Nature
- Grass Knot
- Perish Song
- Heal bell
- Recover

Something like this ?

Tangrowth isn't leaving, sorry =[

+ Skarmory : - I love how skarm kinda counters skymin too and although minimal, Obi's ev spread helps :- 252 hp /16 att / 200 def/ 40 sp.def.

Okay, but by decreasing his Defense EVs, Rotom's, and making Tangrowth into a Rest-Talker, I'll be opening up a REAL big Gyara weakness.

+ Hippowdon : - Just a note, you could go 252 HP /152 DEF / 106 SP.DEF on Hippow, just for insurance incase you come up against a weird tar with Ice Beam.

Then Adamant Outrage kills =[

Sorry for the TL;DR and no i couldnt put it in order, but in short "lern 2 stall newb" lol ;).


:15:

imo Tentacruel needs Ice Beam for a decent MixMence check (though if Draco crits you're screwed). I would use max HP on tEntacruel...I know it's a Leftovers number and all, but it really needs all the HP it can get.

KKKKK

As for the team, the design is much like ObiStall so it's obviously pretty solid. You are gonna have to choose between Aromatherapy and Wish on Blissey. I would use Aromatherapy and just use Toxic over Wish (which is going to be more valuable to a stall team than thunder wave, unless you want to shut down Lucario switch-ins but otherwise I don't see the point). Also, where you can fit it in, I'd use Rest on things you think absolutely need recovery that don't have it already (Rotom comes to mind).

Rest on Rotom and Rest on Tangrowth <--- ?

Slight problem with last pokemon CurseLax/CMcune/etc., but given tangrowth's leech seed support and the general bulk of your team (plus the lack of actual curselax lol), I doubt it should hurt too much.

This is where Sleep Powder comes into good use, as I can Leech Seed stall it and Power Whip Suicune (3HKO IIRC)

Also aaaaaaaaaaa centering RMTs aaaaaaaaaa

5 HOURS MAKING THIS RMT

I dunno, cutting the overall Defensive bulk of Skarmory and Rotom, and making Tangrowth a Rest-Talker makes Gyarados VERY threatening, more threatenin that I wish to make it =[.

 

[UberChomp]

Lmao @ the RMT introduction and the great humor throughout the rmt. *bonus points*

I am not sure if this has already been said but you could put more special defense evs in Hippowdon, Tyranitars with Ice Beam and other special attacks are more commonly found on shoddy than you think, tbh. And its good overall to have a well-rounded defensive EV spread over a ev spread that maxes out defense. Also, definitely take Roar out of Hippowdon's set completely, Ice Fang > Roar no doubt in your case.

Other than that, nothing else really sticks out, this team is pretty solid, well done Vance. =D

 

[DonRoyale]

Tyranitar weak (Don't mind me; I just needed to say that, even though it's not nearly the case)

If Sandstorm comes in effect before Leftovers, that is a 2HKO. You'll be left at 0.5% of your health after damage, then Sandstorm will finish you off before Tangrowth om nom nom's its Leftovers.

Otherwise, solid team. I'm not going up against you for the life of me because you always rip me to shreds in the most embarassing way possible, and I fail at this game anyway so :p

But...I just wanted to say that you were Tyranitar weak to give you a taste of your own medicine. Don't mind me. :p

 

[genesis42]

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpD
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Roar/Ice Fang
Slack Off

Ice Fang > Roar as you already have Skarm for phazing and most of the opponents switches will be made through forced switches, plus you need some kind of insurance against Mence (watch out for LO Draco Meteor though). Change the EV spread so it hits a Leftovers number, umm.. 4 Spd to outpace other Hippos, enough in Atk to OHKO Mence w/ Ice Fang with SR factored in and rest in Def. Yeah.. that's all I can think of?

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
​

Calm
204 HP/96 SpA/172 SpD/36 Spe
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Surf
Ice Beam

Why does Tenta have a Lefties recovery number in a Sandstorm? =/ If you want, consider investing a few more EVs in Spd to outspeed Modest max Spd Heatran with no Scarf. Uhh.. Black Sludge > Leftovers just incase the opponent decides to use Trick. Speaking of Trick, it cripples your entire team as your members rely heavily on using there entire movesets.

​

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spe
Brave Bird
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind

​

Eh... this guy's just never worked for me in a stall team.. I agree with your opinion on him. Standard although I'm not too hot on the EV spread.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm
82 SpA/252 Def/176 SpD
Flamethrower
Softboiled
Seismic Toss
Aromatherapy

Someone in your team really needs to Toxic those Levitators and Flying types, consider Toxic > Seismic Toss/Aromatherapy and yes I know that means you get walled by Heatran but really now.. what's Heatran gonna do to you? explosion? well.. that's an entirely different story <_<;; but you get my point.

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpA
Thunderbolt
Overheat
Reflect
Rest

​

Seems alright.

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spe
Power Whip
Rest
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

If you go with Toxic > Aromatherapy on Bliss then I really recommend using D_A's recommended Celebi set over this.

 

[sims796]

I believe Don is right, it is a 2HKO. On my calcs, Stone Edge did %50 max, but assuming I'm off by %.25, Stone Edge should hit, drop him down to %51, he gets back to that amount, get hit again, then Sandstorm takes you out before Lefties.

Of course, that's assuming he gets in %49 on both hits, which, let's be honest, doesn't happen too often.

I'm a little confused on why you used Aroma on Bliss rather than Wish. Can't Blissey learn Heal Bell? Disregard. Or did you just forget to add it on the first post, as well as Toxic on Oven man?

 

[Syaoran]

I'm not liking it much, particularly because it's a very slow team. Suppose the opponent sends Dugtrio on Tentacruel predicting a Toxic Spikes (or just coming to revenge kill) - you just lost your Tentacruel and mixed Infernape is coming to rape your team (Rotom will survive and dent it, but it won't be near killing Infernape). I'm also not that keen on Aromatherapy and Rest because that takes a lot of turns and can make your pokemon a sitting duck to a skilled player. I can see mixed Kingdra doing a number to this team too. Thunder Wave on Blissey could be nice for punishing switch ins who are immune to Toxic Spikes.

Salamence is a huge threat to any team and this team is no exception.. a single bad switch in (or even staying in) can cost you one pokemon. Sadly I'm not into Platinum enough to know how to solve this problem <.<

also lol @ D_A Celebi comment to make it look totally like Obi's team.

 

[Dark Azelf]

also lol @ D_A Celebi comment to make it look totally like Obi's team.

If you were talking about the Perish Song comment i wasnt intentionally trying to make it like obi's team.

Every stall team pretty much needs Perish Song or they kinda fail when something stats up in your face as the last poke and it just so happens that celebi does what growth does and has said song built in X].


But now you mention it, it does look kinda like Obi's o.0 lol.



Just a minor note, there is a new Mixape variant that people are using : -

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 172 Atk/192 Spd/144 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Thunderpunch
- Grass Knot
- Overheat / Fire Blast

Id honestly be careful of this since it OHKO's Tentacruel with thunderpunch with pretty much any residual damage and 2hko's it with stone edge. And then proceeds to destroy your entire team >:.

All the more reason for def evs on tenta imo lol.

 

[Archer]

If you were talking about the Perish Song comment i wasnt intentionally trying to make it like obi's team.

Every stall team pretty much needs Perish Song or they kinda fail when something stats up in your face as the last poke and it just so happens that celebi does what growth does and has said song built in X].

Not really. The likelihood of these pokemon being able to set up is rare, as they would have to rest almost instantly or Toxic Spikes, Spikes and SR would dent them severely on entry. Suicune is dealt with rather well by Blissey and Tangrowth (CroCune) and Curselax is taken out while sleeping. I guess you could drop Taunt somewhere in there.

Just a minor note, there is a new Mixape variant that people are using : -

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 172 Atk/192 Spd/144 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Thunderpunch
- Grass Knot
- Overheat / Fire Blast

Id honestly be careful of this since it OHKO's Tentacruel with thunderpunch with pretty much any residual damage and 2hko's it with stone edge. And then proceeds to destroy your entire team >:.

All the more reason for def evs on tenta imo lol.

That does look dangerous, however, Rotom can deal with it. TBolt does 72.01 - 85.32. Factor in LO and hazard damage, and it won't last too long. I have seen a rise in the number of SDApes, which are also an issue to many teams.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Not really. The likelihood of these pokemon being able to set up is rare, as they would have to rest almost instantly or Toxic Spikes, Spikes and SR would dent them severely on entry. Suicune is dealt with rather well by Blissey and Tangrowth (CroCune) and Curselax is taken out while sleeping. I guess you could drop Taunt somewhere in there.


Just to clarify, it is for last poke sweeps, not midgame aka "if their last poke has a stat up move + rest your stall is screwed"
and you would be surprized about the number of people who get their stall teams swept in this fashion.

How is curselax taken out when its the last poke ? It curses up (rest is there too) and there is NOTHING this team can do to it, sorry but that was kinda misguiding.

Also just a note, of course you realise any suicune with rest and calm mind beats blissey right ? (nearly every set) so blissey doesnt handle suicune at all.

As for tangrowth, calm cune (rest/ice beam/calm mind/surf) is still used btw, which has ice beam so you are kinda screwed. At least celebi can outspeed to Perish Song it which will stops it sweeping this entire team.

| Snorlax | Move | Curse | 57.6% |

| Snorlax | Move | Rest | 61.6 %|

------------------------------------------------------------

| Suicune | Move | Calm Mind | 90.7 %|

| Suicune | Move | Ice Beam | 62.9 % |

| Suicune | Move | Rest | 40.3 % |


------------------------------------------------------------

Proves my point even more.




Not only is Perish Song just not for said "last pokemon sweeps", but its also for ingrain baton pass teams which skarmory cannot phaze, so it has great utility there too again stopping your team getting owned, aswell as being able to take out stuff like sub mind jirachi ( non hp bug ones) and weird stuff like SD Cradilly (who beats skarm with suction cups <---this is a joke but yeah).

That does look dangerous, however, Rotom can deal with it. TBolt does 72.01 - 85.32. Factor in LO and hazard damage, and it won't last too long. I have seen a rise in the number of SDApes, which are also an issue to many teams.

Rotom doesnt deal with it that well tbh since it gets 2hko'd by LO Fire Blast.

67.11% damage on average from lo fire blast.

77.96% damage on average from lo overheat.




And the only thing that gets Taunt on this team is Skarmory, which is kinda meh in all honesty (since is has better ways of phazing), but i suppose you could use JumpSkarm but you have to drop spikes, your recovery move, your attacking move or indeed whirlwind for taunt all of which are kinda needed, so eh.

Still Perish Song is still better for its given purpose.

 

[Syaoran]

You need to factor mixApe because of his access to Nasty Plot. Flamethrower (or Fire Blast), Grass Knot and Close Combat is still a huge threat if he doesn't have Tentacruel with enough HP, and seeing that he doesn't have any Wish support, chances are Tentacruel will eventually lose, leaving Ape for a full sweep. Blissey without T-Wave is completely asking Infernape to switch in and grant it a free Nasty Plot.

Also I find it kinda funny you say LO Gyara can never 2HKO Skarm with Leftovers, but your Skarm carries Shed Shell. lol

Tangwrath seems like a wasted slot here. It's very slow and Sleep Powder clashes with Toxic Spikes, so I can't see it being very effective when you don't have a sweeper of your own that can take advantage of this. Yea sure it handles Gyara perfectly, but you could use stuff like ScarfCelebi with Leafstorm if you're so worried. It could act as a nice surprise factor on a stall team, scoring OHKO's on stuff like ScarfHeatran who are sure they're faster. Just a thought.

 

[Dark Azelf]

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