Volcanion looks so awesome!

punkysaur

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    [PokeCommunity.com] Volcanion looks so awesome!


    Here's the smogon discussion thread abt volcanion- https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/volcanion.3504481/
    Water/Fire typing is already sick and then it has water absorb to become immune to a neutrality and also heal itself cause it.Combine with that a sick movepool with steam eruption,fire blast,overheat,solarbeam and defensive moves like substitute,toxic,sunny day makes it a big powerhouse.
    It looks somehwat similar to hoopa-u stat-wise gaining a good enough 110 Attack/120 Defense/130 Special Attack and loosing on speed.
    Though it is still early days,when facing it in competitive battles its difficult to beat it.One even has to sacrifice/loose at least 1 mon to finish it off cause u cant easily switch a mon against it..And if the opponent switches it out then it is more of a problem.(Same ol'hoopa-u problem).

    So what are your thoughts about it?Why should it stay in ou/Why shouldn't it stay in ou?
    What can be the possible gameplays to counter it?
    (I have realised exca is a great option to hit volcanion hard as its stab earthquake deals a lot of damage to volcanion.But exca cant switch into an incoming steam eruption.)
     
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    So far I've found that it's speed is a huge issue (so I added a scarf). I'm pretty confident it isn't going to be another Hoopa-U like some people are worried about. It's slower and has even more trouble switching in, even with Water Absorb. It does hit extremely hard though and has a very good movepool.
     
    I haven't been following the moveset trends on Volcanion, but Specs seems like the best use for it. But I haven't even used it yet haha. Specs Steam Eruption seems to do an incredible job at whittling down everything.

    As for what to use against it, the Latis seem like the most accessible solution, but burns and HP Ice are unfortunate. Bulky Waters counter it pretty well, especially CM + Roar Suicune, Gastrodon, Slowking, and Seismitoad. Specs Keldeo and Rotom-W are decent, but prone to being worn down. Manaphy could check it, but it'd have to run a bulky spread with Rain Dance, a coverage move, and TG or CM. I'm not sure if that'd be any good vs Pokemon that aren't Volcanion.

    SR and its low Speed will make it a lot more manageable to deal with. The Latis will likely rise in usage, similar to the days when Landorus-I was around.
     
    But all those bulky waters get either ko'ed or worn down heavily by volcanions solar beam.Also it has acess to substitute letting it get the solarbeam without hurting itself.
    Though I like Cm+roar suicune and latis as a counter to it.Also,idk but a fast electric with access to volt switch paired with lati/gastro/seismi seems good to me.
     
    Suicune and Slowking take Solar Beam pretty well:

    252+ SpA Volcanion Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 176-208 (44.7 - 52.9%)
    252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%)
    252+ SpA Volcanion Solar Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 128-152 (31.6 - 37.6%)

    Rotom-W doesn't care about Solar Beam. It can Volt Switch out while Volcanion uses Solar Beam, then come back in again.

    Also, I'm not sure if HP Grass will see much usage. Solar Beam looks like it'd be better on the Sub set, and HP Ice targets more common stuff on Specs. Its viability depends on how much more popular Gastro and Toad become.
     
    wolf said:
    Suicune and Slowking take Solar Beam pretty well:

    252+ SpA Volcanion Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 176-208 (44.7 - 52.9%)
    252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%)
    252+ SpA Volcanion Solar Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 128-152 (31.6 - 37.6%)

    Rotom-W doesn't care about Solar Beam. It can Volt Switch out while Volcanion uses Solar Beam, then come back in again.

    Also, I'm not sure if HP Grass will see much usage. Solar Beam looks like it'd be better on the Sub set, and HP Ice targets more common stuff on Specs. Its viability depends on how much more popular Gastro and Toad become.
    Click to expand...

    I got floored by Archy's HP Grass Volcanion yesterday. I switched Seismitoad straight into it. I think other's would likely be similarly tempted.
     
    Rabinov said:
    That's specifically why I didn't mention those three, because they are more than capable to be honest, although out of the three I'd use Rotom; Slowking just gets bopped way too much in OU I find and as much as Crocune is absolutely stupid it doesn't really have its own answer to Volcanion unless you run Toxic but then you may as well run Chansey if you're just going to Toxic stall it.

    Now looking at potential partners for this bad boy, I'm liking the idea of Landy-T.
    Click to expand...
    That part of the post was in response to punky. CroCune is plenty viable. I don't have much experience with it, but I have used a very similar Pokemon, Mega Slowbro, and it's also great. CroCune can PP stall Volcanion easily with Pressure. RoarCune can do the same as well as rack up entry hazard damage.

    Apparently, Fairies are popular to use with Volcanion. That probably has to do with their defensive synergy. Fairies can switch into Lati, and Volcanion takes advantage of Steel-types. Celebi might be a good partner. Checks Waters and can BP NP boosts to Volcanion on some of Celebi's switch-ins, like Mega Scizor and Skarmory. Volcanion and Specs Keldeo would be amusing but hard to build around. Pursuit users can trap Lati. Sweepers that appreciate a weakened Lati could be good, like Breloom.
     
    Archy said:
    Volcanion is pretty overpowered if you ask me, it's a pefect multirole. It can stall you, it can break through stuff, it can screw around with insane powered Scalds. SR weakness, low speed and kinda mediocre HP doesn't cover that, it gets a lot of chances to switch into. It can take a hit, kill something and switch back into a predicted water move, let's remember that Water type moves are pretty common overall. It can take other Volcanions with Earth Power too. It also has a pefect type combination, offensive and defensive wise. It's going to make Fire, Grass, Water cores a lot more relevant than before.

    Another thing that works really well with Volcanion are sand teams, I didn't saw this mentioned so I'll say it. I been running a sand team + Volcanion and, it can do a lot of damage if used properly. It's easier to keep sand and Exca alive with it. You can do pretty much anything with this Pokemon, it's just crazy.

    I just hope it gets suspected soon, it would be stupid if it doesn't. We just got rid of a overpowered glass cannon, and now we have a overpowered bulky cannon here... It's not logic at all.
    Click to expand...
    Volcanion is very easily revenge killed and is weak to SR. It's similar to Kyurem-B in that respect, but there's more stuff it can switch into. Anyway, this means that it's easy for offensive teams to deal with. Most Pokemon on those types of teams can outrun it, even defensive Landorus-T (but are people running Speed?). It's relatively easy to pile on stuff that can KO or cripple it.

    As for defensive teams, they can resort to counters like Chansey, Suicune, and Mega Latias. Its range of checks is small, but that's the case with plenty of other breakers.

    Bulky offense probably has the biggest issues with Volcanion. Pokemon like Rotom-W and Latios are easily worn down. Maybe it'll get suspect tested because of this, but Volcanion is on a timer just as much as its checks are (SR).
     
    Nah said:
    Steam Eruption is the only OP thing about Volcanion really, though it is very good. I've been using a set w/ LO but I want another item since I don't like LO recoil on it (or in general really).
    Click to expand...

    I agree. My Volcanion doesn't have many good fire/water type moves except for steam eruption. Steam Eruption's animation is pretty sick too.
     
    Bulky Specs is good, Air Balloon gives you another type of move you can switch in on, and AV is AV. Just run Scald 2.0, Fiah Blast, Earth Powah, and a coverage move of your choice, then Profit.
     
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