What happens after you die?

[Tek]

Really nice posts by Tek and Blu-Ray....

What Tek says reminds me of terrible short stories written by high school students that end with "and then I woke up" :D Abysmal writing.

If you're going to criticize my beliefs, could you do so in a way that actually has some logical basis? You obviously have never engaged in any type of lucid dreaming or meditation in which one ceases identifying with the seat of conscious awareness, aka ego. When the ego, with its incessant stream of thoughts, and in fact the entire bodymind, can be known as objects of awareness, then the knowing subject is something other than and larger than either of those things. It's based on concrete experiential data, and not ideology or theory or desire.

And it is from this type of transcendental experience in life that my ideas of possible transcendence after death originate. And clearly, if I find myself in agreement with not only ancient wisdom traditions but also modern philosophers and Ph.D.s, I've moved beyond the point of abysmal high school writing.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, even if it is baseless and illogical.

A question, if you don't know you're going to die can that acceptance still occur? For example you are vaporised by a nuclear explosion or hit in the brain with a .50 cal bullet. Maybe it's possible, but that would require proof that there is some sort of essence impervious to all physical damage and not dependent on the brain.

The proof of such an essence is directly available to you right now, so close that you've likely never noticed it. In your life, in the past five minutes, five days, five years, many things have come and gone. But one thing has not come and has not gone: The I Am-ness that is your own infinite awareness, and in which the entire manifest universe is arising.

The usual way of thinking is this - the matter of my body is in this room, which is in this building, which is on the earth, which is in the solar system, and on and on. However, all of these things are in fact arising as objects in your awareness, which therefore means that your awareness is vast enough to contain the entire universe.

And in relation to the topic, the unborn is also the undying. Since I-Amness does not originate in the bodymind, it would therefore survive the physical death of the body. And in fact, one thing that is often reported by people who've had near death experiences is that the feel a supreme bliss and oneness with everything in which no objects arise other than pure joy... which is exactly the experience reported by meditators who enter deeply into transcendental states.

I think believing in God and most religions that promise eternal bliss for following what they say is incredibly naive. There is no proof that what they say is true, at all. Then again, the thought that life is pointless and the wonderful experiences of our lives will be lost forever is very depressing. Good on you if you can find spiritual peace.

...

Hey BadPokemon, I'll send you a postcard and tacky t-shirt when I get to hell, what size are you?

What is your problem? You complimented me, then insulted me, then did the same contradictory set of actions at BadPokemon. A little respect goes a long way. And if you're just here to troll, I think I speak for everyone when I say that you can get lost.

I'm a size: how immature and hateful that comment was. Serisously? As a Christian, I believe in Heaven. I'm going there, but that doesn't mean I party and do bad stuff. My job is to spread the word of God and create disciples of Jesus. Again, it is ones choice to believe or not. I think not believing in a Heaven/hell can have negative effects. Yolo- why not rob a store? It I like increase selfish behavior- why not get the best out of what I can before I die? Morals and values may not be good. I'm not saying everyone is like this, as there are many wonderful people out there.

This is a good point - religion has a unique capacity to bring a person up and out of selfish ways of living, and give the person a group of people that care about him or her, and that s/he can also care for. While belief in an afterlife is not necessarily helpful for everyone, it is helpful for some, and for that reason it deserves respect.

Also, neither belief in the existence or non-existence of an afterlife will directly lead to nihilism and world-abandonment, or any various unhealthy behavior... that is very much dependent on the moral capacities of an individual, among other things.

 

[Sopheria]

Also, neither belief in the existence or non-existence of an afterlife will directly lead to nihilism and world-abandonment, or any various unhealthy behavior... that is very much dependent on the moral capacities of an individual, among other things.

This. There's kind of an odd assumption that a lot of people have that if you don't believe in heaven/hell, then you automatically become a nihilist who has nothing to live for, and I've never really understood that. If that were the case, then everything we do would just be for the sake of reaping a reward/avoiding punishment, rather than out of the goodness of our own hearts. There's plenty of people in the world who aren't like that.

 

[Monophobia]

I'm a size: how immature and hateful that comment was. Serisously? As a Christian, I believe in Heaven. I'm going there, but that doesn't mean I party and do bad stuff. My job is to spread the word of God and create disciples of Jesus. Again, it is ones choice to believe or not. I think not believing in a Heaven/hell can have negative effects. Yolo- why not rob a store?

Who says you are going to your Heaven? Certainly it's not just decided by yourself? Isn't there something about "Gates of Judgement" or close to that effect? Perhaps at that point, all of your sins are displayed to you and totaled up, deciding where you go.

Besides, not having a religion doesn't give negative effects. I could say having a religion gives negative effects, too, because you want to hurry your life so you can get to the good stuff. Or maybe you are always too worried about your actions and how they determine your fate to have any fun?

Just saying you could play hands for both sides.

 

[BadPokemon]

Who says you are going to your Heaven? Certainly it's not just decided by yourself? Isn't there something about "Gates of Judgement" or close to that effect? Perhaps at that point, all of your sins are displayed to you and totaled up, deciding where you go.

Besides, not having a religion doesn't give negative effects. I could say having a religion gives negative effects, too, because you want to hurry your life so you can get to the good stuff. Or maybe you are always too worried about your actions and how they determine your fate to have any fun?

Just saying you could play hands for both sides.

Ok, I see your point. It depends in the religion. Going to Heaven or he'll depending if your actions outweigh your sins leads to pride or depression. Depending which way you tip the scale, of course. As a Christian, we look forward to living in Heaven with our lord and savior, but we have a job here on earth. I mentioned that earlier. We are to use out gifts and talents to glorify God and spread His Word. It isn't a requirement, but most people will do it. We aren't a works-based religion. In fact, Christianity isn't a religion. It is a faith. Just because you go to church, pray, sing in the choir doesn't mean you are a true Christian. A true one really believes with all their heart what Jesus did and admit and office our sins. We don't have to do certain things for God to love us. God loves EVERYONE! I'm born- again and His child. I hope I cleared some things up for you. :)

 

[BadPokemon]

If you're going to criticize my beliefs, could you do so in a way that actually has some logical basis? You obviously have never engaged in any type of lucid dreaming or meditation in which one ceases identifying with the seat of conscious awareness, aka ego. When the ego, with its incessant stream of thoughts, and in fact the entire bodymind, can be known as objects of awareness, then the knowing subject is something other than and larger than either of those things. It's based on concrete experiential data, and not ideology or theory or desire.

And it is from this type of transcendental experience in life that my ideas of possible transcendence after death originate. And clearly, if I find myself in agreement with not only ancient wisdom traditions but also modern philosophers and Ph.D.s, I've moved beyond the point of abysmal high school writing.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, even if it is baseless and illogical.






The proof of such an essence is directly available to you right now, so close that you've likely never noticed it. In your life, in the past five minutes, five days, five years, many things have come and gone. But one thing has not come and has not gone: The I Am-ness that is your own infinite awareness, and in which the entire manifest universe is arising.

The usual way of thinking is this - the matter of my body is in this room, which is in this building, which is on the earth, which is in the solar system, and on and on. However, all of these things are in fact arising as objects in your awareness, which therefore means that your awareness is vast enough to contain the entire universe.

And in relation to the topic, the unborn is also the undying. Since I-Amness does not originate in the bodymind, it would therefore survive the physical death of the body. And in fact, one thing that is often reported by people who've had near death experiences is that the feel a supreme bliss and oneness with everything in which no objects arise other than pure joy... which is exactly the experience reported by meditators who enter deeply into transcendental states.






What is your problem? You complimented me, then insulted me, then did the same contradictory set of actions at BadPokemon. A little respect goes a long way. And if you're just here to troll, I think I speak for everyone when I say that you can get lost.






This is a good point - religion has a unique capacity to bring a person up and out of selfish ways of living, and give the person a group of people that care about him or her, and that s/he can also care for. While belief in an afterlife is not necessarily helpful for everyone, it is helpful for some, and for that reason it deserves respect.

Also, neither belief in the existence or non-existence of an afterlife will directly lead to nihilism and world-abandonment, or any various unhealthy behavior... that is very much dependent on the moral capacities of an individual, among other things.

While neither Tek or I have the same beliefs, he brings up some great points. Please, let's just respect each other. At least Tek and I aren't bashing and hating on each other. Let's have some mutual respect here. While there are very good people out there, Tek pretty much summed up some effects of not believing in a religion or afterlife. While I don't have the knowledge to prove their to be an afterlife, there are others who can. That doesn't mean that it isn't real. How do you know it isn't real? The idea isn't as illogical as this liberal world puts it. (The chances of the perfect earth with the perfect conditions [as we have now] is one in a billion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion. Something like that. I think it is a bit more, but it is around that number.)

 

[Monophobia]

Oh, I have to disagree on us having a perfect Earth. It may have been perfect long, long ago. However, the human race is killing it.

 

[Sopheria]

While I don't have the knowledge to prove their to be an afterlife, there are others who can. That doesn't mean that it isn't real. How do you know it isn't real?

Personally, I have no idea whether or not it's real. It could or it couldn't be. I think the only way we can know is by experiencing it for ourselves, but by then it's too late to report back what we found.

As much as I'd like to believe there's some kind of afterlife, I know it's useless to think too hard about it because at the end of the day, it's just beyond the scope of our understanding. We barely even understand what consciousness is or what it consists of, let alone where it goes or if it even persists after we die. We'll just never know until we get there...

 

[Sandslash Fan]

Nothing: Doesn't matter, since you wouldn't even know it.

After-life: Great! Hopefully it doesn't suck.

 

[Monophobia]

Actually really happy this discussion is going so far! I love to hear everyone''s opinions. I agree with PervertedPikachu that most mainstream religions preach acceptance but then try to convert those who disagree with them. It's all sort of bigoted, no? Religion is a very difficult topic, since there are many views around. No one can really say which is right, if all of them are right, or if none of them are right at all! So, who is to say their right without logical proof? Many books - many ideas.

Therefore I just don't see how religion can exist as a thing. It's all too controversial.

 

[Tek]

@PervertedPikachu:

Well, I guess I didn't need to blow up like that. Your post just came across as disrespectful, and apparently that's my hot button today.




Speaking of which, it's beginning to look like this is a topic which stirs up some pretty strong emotions for some. Just the question itself seems electric: "What happens after you die?"

I like discussing this for the simple fact that, as far as we know, everything that is born dies. Yet instead of being our constant companion, we make death the stalking shadow, and allow it to take us by surprise.

And it's kind of fun to wonder what, if anything comes next. So many things are possible, because we have so little data to draw conclusions from. Maybe it turns out we're contestants on a game show, who agreed to forget our identities and get wrapped up in a play.

 

[BadPokemon]

What I mean by perfect earth is that the conditions are perfect for complex life. How is preaching exceptance and trying to convert bigoted? I thing they go hand in hand. We want to grow the kingdom of God. Nothing wrong with that, right? There is proof for the Bible and what's in it, but that is a different discussion.

 

[Blu·Ray]

Just to give this discussion another perspective, I really love the way that Hindus look at religion and religious topics. They basically don't believe that they have the true belief, nor do they want to conquer the world with their religion, they are open-minded to change, to adopt other bits and pieces into their own personal belief and world-perspective. It lies in their culture to accept what others believe and think on topics, and they are by nature very tolerant people.
That is in my opinion how all religions should be in a perfect world.

 

[Baby~Eevee]

I would really want to know the answer to this question. I fear of dying because I'm afraid that I'll just die and then that's it....It's really scary thought. What happens? Am I just gone forever? What do I do after I die? Ugh. I shudder just thinking about it.

I used to only believe in an afterlife but now I also believe in reincarnation. I believe that there is an afterlife but I don't believe in the strict rules that Heaven and Hell have. Let's face it, everyone has committed at least one deadly sin. x3 Reincarnation is cool because then you could come back on Earth as another creature. But living in some land full of joy with your loved ones would be great too. I'm really torn which one I believe in.

I don't know if I would want to be cremated or not. I worry about being buried alive. >_< But I don't want my body to be burned either...

I just know that I want some of my body parts to be donated such as my organs. I watched Angel Beats and that definitely influenced me to be useful to other people when I'm dead.

I just hope that when I die, it's going to be fast and painless.

 

[Monophobia]

What I mean by perfect earth is that the conditions are perfect for complex life. How is preaching exceptance and trying to convert bigoted? I thing they go hand in hand. We want to grow the kingdom of God. Nothing wrong with that, right? There is proof for the Bible and what's in it, but that is a different discussion.

I mean, if you say you accept everyone, then why try to change them? "Come as you are," correct?

And who is to say murder is wrong if we are all going to die anyway?

 

[Tek]

And who is to say murder is wrong if we are all going to die anyway?

What a horrible notion. Who has the right to decide when and where another person ends their life-journey? What reason is there to cause more suffering in a world already full of pain?

 

[Dreg]

There are many possibilities that could happen after you die, so I'm not gonna bash on anyone's beliefs. Personally, I believe that after you die, after so many years, you are born as something else, might be a human, or an animal, with no memory of what or who you once were. As for the period between years, I can't really make an assumption of what would happen in that part.

 

[BadPokemon]

I mean, if you say you accept everyone, then why try to change them? "Come as you are," correct?

And who is to say murder is wrong if we are all going to die anyway?

Exactly Tek and i's point. That is the thought that could occur if you don't believe in the afterlife. Very morbid. God changes the person for the better, not the worse. He loves everyone and wants them all to enter Heaven. You will be a changed person in the sense of your beliefs, morals, values, character, etc.

 

[mangamusicfan]

I think you will come back as something *Somebody* else, Hard to explain what I really mean with my broken english lol

 

[Sopheria]

Exactly Tek and i's point. That is the thought that could occur if you don't believe in the afterlife. Very morbid. God changes the person for the better, not the worse. He loves everyone and wants them all to enter Heaven. You will be a changed person in the sense of your beliefs, morals, values, character, etc.

The thought could also occur if you do believe in an afterlife though, that's the thing. I don't think there's any evidence that there's a correlation between sociopathy and belief in an afterlife or lack thereof. It's all just a matter of how moral or ethical a person is, and I don't think belief in an afterlife would have much effect on it.

For example, someone who believes in an afterlife may be inclined to kill because they feel that since the person will live on in the afterlife, it's not actually killing them. Or they may think that killing is the right thing to do and that there will actually be a reward for them in the afterlife for doing it. You see what I mean? It could go both ways. Different people think differently and it's a bit arrogant to presume to understand how everyone would think without the belief in an afterlife.

 

[Tek]

Exactly Tek and i's point. That is the thought that could occur if you don't believe in the afterlife. Very morbid. God changes the person for the better, not the worse. He loves everyone and wants them all to enter Heaven. You will be a changed person in the sense of your beliefs, morals, values, character, etc.

Actually I made the opposite point. Belief or non-belief in an afterlife doesn't determine where you are morally. I'm a good example: I believe that everything that is unique about a person, all memories and expectations, everything that was born, will die. And if there is an afterlife, those things do not carry over. Yet you saw how I reacted to Gym Leader Mark's nihilist statement.

Belief in an afterlife can influence a person's morality to some degree, and can sometimes help move a relatively immoral person to a greater level of morality. But that does not mean such a belief is necessary for a high degree of moral development.

In fact, when the idea of a Heaven for saints and Hell for sinners becomes a way to shame or frighten people into behaving a certain way, it actually prevents the emergence of authentic morality. To quote Alan Watts: "This is the deepest meaning of the Christian doctrine of free will - to act in union with God is to act not from constraint of fear or pride, or from the hope of reward, but with the baseless love of the unmoved Mover." In other words, true morality comes from love, and not fear or selfishness.


EDIT: However, I should note that traditional religion appears to be uniquely suited to bringing people out of gang violence and crime, and into a group identity that is more meaningful, more fulfilling, more compassionate. Which makes perfect sense, as the mythic-membership worldview develops directly after the warriorlike and egocentric magic worldview. This is the place that traditional religion occupies on the developmental escalator, and it is why such institutions are relevant despite their shortcomings.

And before we judge, let us not forget that the rational and pluralistic institutions that dominate our society have their own shortcomings - shortcomings which are far more disastrous than those of the mythic level, just as rational and pluralistic dignities are much deeper than those of the mythic level.

Which is all marvelously off-topic, but that seems to be the nature of this thread...