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Which do you prefer? Ash or Red?

coolcatkim22

Team Rocket's Rockin'
892
Posts
15
Years
    • FlamingThunder said:
    Red is more powerful than mister-boy.
    Click to expand...
    That's Ashy-Boy, mister.

    FlamingThunder said:
    KANTO= 10% he knows nothing about these creatures yet.
    JOHTO= 20% many PKMN from the Kanto region are still common.
    HOENN- 10% ...
    SINNOH- 9%
    UNOVA- ???
    Click to expand...
    What is this based on may I ask?

    Roxasabridged said:
    Red's a Gary Stu because he trained excessively to be as good as he is?
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    No, he's a Gary Stu because he never loses and he doesn't even need to try to win.
     

    Editman

    Pokemon Collector
    346
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen Mar 30, 2014
    It's always weird battling Red in HGSS, because i'm expecting to see his Poliwhirl lol. I like Ash more though
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
    12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    • I like Red because of his incredibly strong Pokemon when you battle him in Mt. Silver. I like Ash too because he has a diverse selection of Pokemon with him.
     

    HinDae

    10
    Posts
    13
    Years
    • GlitchCity said:
    Red by a long shot. Ash was based off of Red and he doesnt even compare. Red is a pretty powerful trainer, and he sticks to the things that he learns. While Ash has to keep learning the same thing over and over again.
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    this. red isnt annoying like ash, i stopped watching the anime because he annoyed me so much

    sometimes i wish charizard woulda just eaten him or something lol
     

    Skaterzpenguin

    Vulpix!? In my backyard!? :D
    1,315
    Posts
    16
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    • WI
    • Seen Feb 14, 2013
    I prefer Red from the manga/video games series. He's strong and doesn't think like ash from the anime... ;)
     

    KitKat13

    i'm on the right track, baby
    178
    Posts
    13
    Years
    • Age 27
    • Seen Mar 17, 2012
    I dislike Ash which means I don't really hate him..it's just that, I don't really like him. XD; so I'd go with Red, I'm a fan. :D
     
    Roxasabridged

    Roxasabridged

    Lucariowner
    383
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • No, he's a Gary Stu because he never loses and he doesn't even need to try to win.
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    ... Huh? Red certainly has lost battles before. Mew, Deoxys, the E4... Not to mention struggling to beat the gym leaders, Team Rocket, Deoxys in their rematch, Mewtwo, Guile Hideout... I can't even remember battles where he won easily, aside from Brock's trainers.

    If anything, Red's not that much stronger than the other 'Dex holders. He's at least equal with Green.
     

    Ronin

    Lazlo Woodbine’s apprentice
    81
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • Red is better by far in my opinion. Ash's character resets each season ruined the TV show in my eyes. Its so annoying watching him slowing getting a bit better through a region, then getting to the next region and forgetting basic type disadvantages. If Ash had won the Johto league and progressed as a trainer (or the show moved on a good few years following a different trainer with a few guest appearances from Ash as a master) then I might have picked Ash. But as it stands a story arch with character progression out strips rinse and repeat cycle of Ash.
     

    coolcatkim22

    Team Rocket's Rockin'
    892
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Roxasabridged said:
    ... Huh? Red certainly has lost battles before. Mew, Deoxys, the E4... Not to mention struggling to beat the gym leaders, Team Rocket, Deoxys in their rematch, Mewtwo, Guile Hideout... I can't even remember battles where he won easily, aside from Brock's trainers.

    If anything, Red's not that much stronger than the other 'Dex holders. He's at least equal with Green.
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    Oh yeah, he lost battles against a legendary, another legendary and four highly skilled trainers ganging up on him. Of course he lost!
    Most Gary Stus lose sometimes to prove to the audience they aren't Gary Stus but it's still obvious they are since they'll be put against a force that's way above their level.
    If they were any true loses he would lose against Green or maybe a filler trainer.

    And yes he struggles. Against trainers that are well known to be tough. It wouldn't even be that bad except he doesn't battle normal people, you know? Except for Brock's tournament which was easy for him.

    Red starts out as the best trainer in Pallet Town and ends off being the best trainer in Kanto. He's never the underdog not even once and the only time we actually see him train was several years after he had become the Champion.

    Lastly, maybe he's only as strong as other Pokedex holders. I don't know. For many we don't get to see their process to becoming great trainers ether. I could argue the rest are Mary Sues and Gary Stus as well but I would need to go reread more of the mangas before I could make such statements.
     

    Eurydice

    `~♥Eury♥~'
    1,126
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • im going to say Red just because ash is super annoying. he wasnt bad in the first couple of seasons but he is the reason i no longer watch the show.
     
    alisaie

    alisaie

    13,600
    Posts
    15
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    • they/them
    • Seen Dec 11, 2023
    Red. I can go on and on about why I adore Red so much (and why I don't think he's a Gary-Stu. At all.), but that would probably take all day of typing and everything. I'll just make this simple: Red hes personality, but he also has some flaws (even if people don't realize it). Think about it. He starts off as some egotistical kid who thinks he's the greatest Pokemon Trainer there is, just because he's the back in Pallet Town (note that Green wasn't really living in Pallet Town at the time). Then, through the process of the manga, he becomes a little more down-to-earth and learns through the mistakes he made. We see this in the GSC Arc, when he rejects the position of Viridian City Gym Leader.

    ... Okay, so that wasn't simple. But for that reason, and several other reasons like he's cuter than Ash are reasons as to why I like Red more than Ash. Manga!Red that is. (and as a side note: Red had to have lost to someone at the end of the Emerald Arc. Whether it had been on purpose or not, he had to have lost in order for Emerald to have gotten it.) They probably had made Red/Green's Battle in the FRLG Arc a tie, so fans don't complain 'Red should have won' and vice-versa.

    And... at least Red doesn't go around meeting every legendary in existence.

    ... Anyways...

    Game!Red vs Ash... Red still wins. In HGSS he's the Champion, something that Ash will probably never get in an actual Pokemon League. I mean, you'd think by now he would have at least one won of 'em. Only Minor ones.

    I'm stopping now before I add anything else. PC's #1 Red Fangirl have marked her territory, yuptup!
     

    olih

    Who says you can't go home?
    417
    Posts
    13
    Years
    • Red
    He's so much more mature, and he doesn't expect that he can always win (even though he usually does). He's more serious than Ash too. And he also looks better! (Although they practically look the same)
     

    Ronin

    Lazlo Woodbine’s apprentice
    81
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • coolcatkim22 said:
    Okay, how do know he never expects to win?
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    That's not what she said "not always expecting to win" is different to "never expecting to win". Red does start out as over confident but he matures over the course of the story.

    coolcatkim22 said:
    In fact, how do you know that Ash does expect to win everytime?
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    Seriously? really? He says it before every battle... I am literally watching the TV show as I'm typing and funnily enough he just said it as I typed that. Now the only real problem I have with the show is the fact his character resets each new region. This really limits his characters development, depth and consistency in the true analytical sense, not saying Red doesn't also have similar problems based on his environment as his higher winning rate brings its own limitations. Now both the manga and the show have faults and these faults will bug some people more than others (heck some people might even like them), it all depends on your personal taste. Basically just because you find the faults created by the style of story telling worse than Ash's doesn't make it an absolute truth (and vise versa ) and just because you don't notice, mind or if you enjoy certain aspects it doesn't mean those aspects can't be the exact same reason someone else dislikes it.

    While your passion for the show is admirable trying to suggest that your experience in enjoyment has an effect on someone else's is going to go no where fast. You may find Reds win ratio that of a "Gary stu" but unless someone goes through the manga to calculate his actual win ratio and there is a consensus on what that ratio needs to be then it is going to be a personal interpretation and not applicable to others. However if you think that Ash doesn't always think he is always going to win then I suggest you re-watch a good few episodes.
     
    Last edited:

    coolcatkim22

    Team Rocket's Rockin'
    892
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Ronin said:
    That's not what she said "not always expecting to win" is different to "never expecting to win".
    Click to expand...
    That's what I mention. I just didn't phrase it right.



    Ronin said:
    Seriously? really? He says it before every battle... I am literally watching the TV show as I'm typing and funnily enough he just said it as I typed that.
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    He does not say that before every battle and what else is he suppose to say? "I'm gonna lose."? A lot of characters like him use absolutes in their manner of speaking but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe he can lose. He only says "I'm gonna win this." and the like because he can't go into a battle believeing he won't.
     
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