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Her hair may have looked weird, but it looked absolutely nothing like an Axew, and besides which, her size alone, not even factoring her whole body but just her long hair, should have made obvious that she's not an Axew (Axew are TINY, about Pikachu's size in fact).
Does that mean that Ash was stupid in AG for using a normal type move against a Gengar when he had electric and steel type moves then?
Considering normal types are generally ineffective against Ghost types unless they are made tangible either willingly or forcibly (such as Hoot-Hoot's foresight allowing it to actually attack one of Marty's Gengar with a Normal type when it otherwise could not), yes, he was indeed being stupid.
I think the present discussion has taken the thread off-course, so I'll try to use this post to tie things back into the topic. I'm glad the discussion has brought up this particular battle because it shows a great difference in the way Satoshi was written in Diamond & Pearl and Best Wishes, why I love the former and was frustrated by the latter, and is a part of why I find BW such a weak series in general - especially where Satoshi was concerned.
That battle actually had a point outside of simply showing Shinji to be a strong trainer and does something the other Pocket Monsters shows really should have done and should do more often: by exposing the flaws in Satoshi's battle style and showcasing the strengths of Shinji's, it forces Satoshi to change his opinion on Shinji and gain a new respect for him. Satoshi says to Jun in a later episode that he realized that Shinji had qualities that he himself lacked, which is a significant change from how Satoshi had viewed Shinji earlier in Diamond & Pearl.
For this to happen Satoshi needed to lose in a way that would force him to realize that Shinji wasn't entirely in the wrong, as well as add a necessary element of drama in the inevitable rematch that a closer, 6-5 loss wouldn't have done. Shinji overwhelmed Satoshi because he had taken into account Satoshi's battle style and the Pokémon he was using and, while Satoshi was using a team of Pokémon mostly captured and raised in that region alone, Shinji used a team that included at least one veteran.
Satoshi's loss to Shooti in their second, more comparable 5-vs.-5 battle didn't do this. It showed Shooti was strong, but Satoshi never learned anything significant from it (and Best Wishes would later undermine the effect of this battle when Shooti began losing in the first round of other tournaments, anyway). Whereas Satoshi and Shinji's first full battle was a turning point in their rivalry and brought some development for both of them, none of Satoshi and Shooti's battles ever added anything substantial to either character, which is a problem when the two characters are meant to be rivals.
I don't think it's worth picking through each different series to find isolated moments of Satoshi's idiocy when it's already been established that Satoshi isn't really a smart person in general (though he is good at Pokémon battles), and demanding perfection from a character who spans five different shows that all go over a hundred episodes each is really asking for too much from the writers. I can forgive the odd dumb moment here and there. And if that's all BW had done, I wouldn't have any more of a problem with that show than I do with the others, DP included.
But you have to admit that there's a world of difference in Satoshi losing one-sided battles to a character who has three regions of experience under his belt and rotates a team of Pokémon that were probably already formidable when he caught them (remember that a part of Shinji's philosophy is to catch Pokémon that are already strong and work with them, instead of raising weaker ones, which is the cause Satoshi champions) and more than one of which were experienced veterans, and a complete rookie with no experience at all to call back on and no real indication that he's any different from any other new trainer out there. Diamond & Pearl got that much right, and Best Wishes didn't. And partly because of that I can't help but change my perception of Satoshi between the two shows, even if he was intended to be the same character.
#1: I didn't think Ash was much stupider, if at all. Nothing can top that one moment in DP I mentioned earlier in terms of idiocy for me.
#2: It was done nearly every episode. Sometimes they used different variations, but same thing. And it was ALWAYS followed by "That's when I/we worry the most!". How is it "teaching" kids to be hypocrites when she grew past it? The goodbye was emotional, but the episode itself could have been done much better than it was, but that's for another thread.
#3: Wouldn't you be angry at some smug jerk insulting your home town? I enjoyed those ones too. And at least Diaz/Trip had character, something Paul did NOT.
#4: I don't see a problem with it still, since anime is not games.
#5/6: It was so anticlimactic, though and Team Rocket had no business being there. They could have a full battle and still do the disobedient thing. Hoenn's battles were well done, but that's all that I really liked about it. With no rivals, there wasn't any incentive. They even had to throw in a last minute "rival" just so Ash wouldn't keep fighting nobodies. Carsten (Cameron) at least didn't have legendaries, and had a personality (an annoying one, maybe, but still).
#7: I don't think TG was that good because they didn't really have enough appearances (neither did J), they were just evil for the sake of it (so was G-Cis (Ghetsis)), but the rest of TP made up for it), plus you could barely tell most of the TG people apart from each other besides looks, and when they tried to do a TR vs. TG rivalry, it fell flat because Team Rocket weren't even villains.
#8: I thought the last two episodes were enough transition/goodbyes. They could have had less fillers, maybe but I still liked it.
1. I'd say the problem with this Ash that most people who dislike BW because of this stems from the fact that BW was Ash's fifth go-around at gyms/league, and a lot of people have seen the series since Kanto originally aired(like myself). Throughout four generations, said people have seen him progress from the happy-go-lucky kid to a more matured and level-headed person. The expectations for BW Ash were supposed to have him be more like DP, but the reality said people got was him acting like a happy-go-lucky person, if you know what I mean. Now, the writers of XY have taken the Ash that was treated like a noob in BW and turned him into a god.
2. No need to worry definitely wasn't used as much, but it probably seemed like it because DP series was longer. The difference with NNTW and "you're such a kid" is that the latter is such a belittling statement, and people can only stand it so much. So it's okay to teach kids to be hypocrites for 100+ episodes as long as she grows out of it by the last one? K. Honestly, Krookodile beating down Dragonite and the scene following it made it one of my favourites from the series.
3. So someone insults your hometown once and you have a personal vendetta against them? K. Paul's whole point was to be a foil to Ash, and he honestly ended up being arguably the best rival of Ash. In the anime, the whole point of having rivalries is to help each other grow. By the end of DP, both Paul and Ash ended up learning from each other and became friends. Refer to Lizardo's latest post in this thread.
4. Hypothetical, but if snivy had a more powerful move, such as leaf storm, would you still actually defend this? Obviously games=/=anime, but generally, experience and levels relatively follow. The anime's "levels" are just experience.
5/6. Well, Team Rocket has been at every league, so... I still would've liked to have Trip battle Ash in place of Cameron, wouldn't you agree? Tobias was terrible, but he wasn't Cameron-level terrible. I mean, as soon as you saw that he was battling the trainer with a Darkrai, you could at least come to grips with the fact that he'd lose. Cameron... I still shudder from seeing someone essentially cheat their way in, only bring 5 pokes to a full battle, and actually win because of an evolution. To top it off, Ash's Oshawott and Boldore got the shaft big time. The battle was the lowest point in the series.
7. TG and TP essentially had the same amount of appearances, with the only difference being their appearances were spread throughout the series. Wouldn't have needed too many appearances from J to know that she was threatening. Honestly, I just felt underwhelmed with TP from the anime, especially after the cancellation of the TR/TP two-parter. That I blame on BW2.
8. New #8. Ash's Unova pokes really got the shaft in favour of the rat and Tepig/Pignite. Palpitoad, Unfezant, Boldore, and Scraggy were so poorly portrayed. Not enough appearances, and the were often fodder in battle for the rat, the pig, or the croc.
I think the present discussion has taken the thread off-course, so I'll try to use this post to tie things back into the topic. I'm glad the discussion has brought up this particular battle because it shows a great difference in the way Satoshi was written in Diamond & Pearl and Best Wishes, why I love the former and was frustrated by the latter, and is a part of why I find BW such a weak series in general - especially where Satoshi was concerned.
That battle actually had a point outside of simply showing Shinji to be a strong trainer and does something the other Pocket Monsters shows really should have done and should do more often: by exposing the flaws in Satoshi's battle style and showcasing the strengths of Shinji's, it forces Satoshi to change his opinion on Shinji and gain a new respect for him. Satoshi says to Jun in a later episode that he realized that Shinji had qualities that he himself lacked, which is a significant change from how Satoshi had viewed Shinji earlier in Diamond & Pearl.
For this to happen Satoshi needed to lose in a way that would force him to realize that Shinji wasn't entirely in the wrong, as well as add a necessary element of drama in the inevitable rematch that a closer, 6-5 loss wouldn't have done. Shinji overwhelmed Satoshi because he had taken into account Satoshi's battle style and the Pokémon he was using and, while Satoshi was using a team of Pokémon mostly captured and raised in that region alone, Shinji used a team that included at least one veteran.
Satoshi's loss to Shooti in their second, more comparable 5-vs.-5 battle didn't do this. It showed Shooti was strong, but Satoshi never learned anything significant from it (and Best Wishes would later undermine the effect of this battle when Shooti began losing in the first round of other tournaments, anyway). Whereas Satoshi and Shinji's first full battle was a turning point in their rivalry and brought some development for both of them, none of Satoshi and Shooti's battles ever added anything substantial to either character, which is a problem when the two characters are meant to be rivals.
I don't think it's worth picking through each different series to find isolated moments of Satoshi's idiocy when it's already been established that Satoshi isn't really a smart person in general (though he is good at Pokémon battles), and demanding perfection from a character who spans five different shows that all go over a hundred episodes each is really asking for too much from the writers. I can forgive the odd dumb moment here and there. And if that's all BW had done, I wouldn't have any more of a problem with that show than I do with the others, DP included.
But you have to admit that there's a world of difference in Satoshi losing one-sided battles to a character who has three regions of experience under his belt and rotates a team of Pokémon that were probably already formidable when he caught them (remember that a part of Shinji's philosophy is to catch Pokémon that are already strong and work with them, instead of raising weaker ones, which is the cause Satoshi champions) and more than one of which were experienced veterans, and a complete rookie with no experience at all to call back on and no real indication that he's any different from any other new trainer out there. Diamond & Pearl got that much right, and Best Wishes didn't. And partly because of that I can't help but change my perception of Satoshi between the two shows, even if he was intended to be the same character.
Off Course !Thing like that already happened in Original , Jotho , Hoenn & Sinnoh series.
For example : Ash's Cyndaquill first battle !
Hack , Didn't Ash's crush a League favorite like Mandy with a Krabby he never trained.
That quote proved nothing, it was just a summary of Ash vs Paul's battle, which doesn't smash the point I was making.
It actually does it you actually read it entire summary.
Paul had better and more prepared tactic for Ash which is why he won.
Furthermore , He knew Ash and battle him far enough to learn about Ash's style unlike Trip who just learn all about Ash's style in One day.
Ash went through more regions than Paul did. You may not think much of the OI or BF but it's still something, so he should still have the advantage instead of getting his ass kicked all the time.
How do you know ???
Just because he didn't mention other region doesn't mean he didn't go to any more region beside Jotho and Kanto.
Ash never battle anyone like Paul ! Paul knew how to predict all Ash's move while Ash just depended on Bond and quick thinking . Even Ash admitted that Paul always beat him because he always think one step ahead of Ash So Ash learned to do that same to beat Paul.
Its implied by Reggie that Ash planned to finish the battle with Infernape's Blaze.
I say "ass kicked" because it shouldn't have even struggled. Karpador was the strongest of its kind, but Pikachu had been through a lot.
I'm not saying it should NEVER win, but it's not like Ash and Pikachu have been just sitting there while everyone else is training.
So Basically you're saying this Anime should treat Pokemon like ''Magikarp'' & ''Goomy'' like crap because you think they are too weak and can never be strong enough to put a hard fight against Pikachu. After all , According to you , Pikachu shouldn't even straggle against ''Worlds Strongest Magikarp'' even though it train by a experience trainer who also older then Ash.
It doesn't guarantee anything. Nothing said he was a beginner, but there was no hard proof he was experienced either.
And What are Trip & Cameron's reason ???
Trip is a ''Super Rookie'' who just read some book and watch some Battle Therefore he just start curbstumping Ash like Paul just with One month training.
If thats true that today people like Conway Or Clemont would be Pokemon Masters.
And Cameron is complete idiot who didn't even brought a 6th Pokemon ! Just because he Lucario evolve , It become totally fair to crash Ash's 3 Pokemon with it . At least Paul had a better reason . He had experience , Brain and strong Pokemons .
Pikachu didn't have many options against Gary's Elevoltek (Electivire). With Elekid, THERE WAS NO excuse because he should have learned from his prior battle with Gary which happened just a few episodes ago.
Electivire and Elekid are 2 different Pokemon used by 2 different trainer .
And we are talking about a Pikachu that lose to a Eevee after beating a Dragonite . Pikachu is by far the most Unreliable Partner Pokemon !
Off Course !Thing like that already happened in Original , Jotho , Hoenn & Sinnoh series.
For example : Ash's Cyndaquill first battle !
Hack , Didn't Ash's crush a League favorite like Mandy with a Krabby he never trained.
To be fair, Showdown at the Poke-Corral did imply that all the Pokémon sent to Professor Oak's lab had a training regimen that they followed when they got there, so it's not that much of an issue. A better example would be how Caterpie ended up defeating Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth effortlessly via stringshot and tackle despite being completely outclassed in every way (experience, skill, strength, size, heck, even whether they were fresh, as thanks to Ash's stupid decision to have his Caterpie fight a Pidgeotto, it was near-death).
How do you know ???
Just because he didn't mention other region doesn't mean he didn't go to any more region beside Jotho and Kanto.
Ash never battle anyone like Paul ! Paul knew how to predict all Ash's move while Ash just depended on Bond and quick thinking . Even Ash admitted that Paul always beat him because he always thing one step ahead of Ash So Ash learned to do that same to beat Paul.
Its implied by Reggie that Ash planned to finish the battle with Infernape's Blaze.
Famon does have a point, as he's been through Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh (that much has been confirmed in the episode where Ash meets Reggie). We're not sure if he went through the Orange Islands or not, but even if he didn't, he's still closer to Ash's experience level than Trip by a long shot, and he has one region less than Ash travelled (Battle Frontier was technically Kanto, so I'm not counting that as a new region).
So Basically you're saying this Anime should treat Pokemon like ''Magikarp'' & ''Goomy'' like crap because you think they are too weak and can never be strong enough to put a hard fight against Pikachu. After all , According to you , Pikachu shouldn't even straggle against ''Worlds Strongest Magikarp'' even though it train by a experience trainer who also older then Ash.
Yes, and in fact, Paul's starter was evolved and in fact it was explicitly stated that he was starting Sinnoh AFTER going through Kanto, Hoenn, and Johto.
And What are Trip & Cameron's reason ???
Trip is a ''Super Rookie'' who just read some book and watch some Battle Therefore he just start curbstumping Ash like Paul just with One month training.
If thats true that today people like Conway Or Clemont would be Pokemon Masters.
And Cameron is complete idiot who didn't even brought a 6th Pokemon ! Just because he Lucario evolve , It become totally fair to crash Ash's 3 Pokemon with it .
BRVOOOOOOOOOOOOO At least Paul had a better reason . He had experience , Brain and strong Pokemons .
Yeah, and the situation with Trip is very much comparable with how Ash beat Team Rocket in Episode 3 of the Original series, despite not standing even a chance against them (they took out Pidgeotto, who was at least strong enough to defeat Caterpie, the Pokémon that beat them, and they even sprayed gunk on Pikachu's eyes).
Electivire and Elekid are 2 different Pokemon used by 2 different trainer .
And we are talking about a Pikachu that lose to a Eevee after beating a Dragonite . Pikachu is by far the most Unreliable Partner Pokemon !
Forget that, he also lost against an Ursaring that had been caught in Sinnoh early on, and this was despite not only his experience in five regions plus a trainer event, but also his defeating a friggin Regice without much effort on his part. Even with the Guts ability, that was definitely a cheap loss, as Pikachu, from the experience alone, far outclasses Ursaring by a significant margin. He should have lost against Paul's starter.
Either way, I still stand by my assessment of what the worst series is, which is BW, with AG being a close second.
1. I'd say the problem with this Ash that most people who dislike BW because of this stems from the fact that BW was Ash's fifth go-around at gyms/league, and a lot of people have seen the series since Kanto originally aired(like myself). Throughout four generations, said people have seen him progress from the happy-go-lucky kid to a more matured and level-headed person. The expectations for BW Ash were supposed to have him be more like DP, but the reality said people got was him acting like a happy-go-lucky person, if you know what I mean. Now, the writers of XY have taken the Ash that was treated like a noob in BW and turned him into a god.
2. No need to worry definitely wasn't used as much, but it probably seemed like it because DP series was longer. The difference with NNTW and "you're such a kid" is that the latter is such a belittling statement, and people can only stand it so much. So it's okay to teach kids to be hypocrites for 100+ episodes as long as she grows out of it by the last one? K. Honestly, Krookodile beating down Dragonite and the scene following it made it one of my favourites from the series.
3. So someone insults your hometown once and you have a personal vendetta against them? K. Paul's whole point was to be a foil to Ash, and he honestly ended up being arguably the best rival of Ash. In the anime, the whole point of having rivalries is to help each other grow. By the end of DP, both Paul and Ash ended up learning from each other and became friends. Refer to Lizardo's latest post in this thread.
4. Hypothetical, but if snivy had a more powerful move, such as leaf storm, would you still actually defend this? Obviously games=/=anime, but generally, experience and levels relatively follow. The anime's "levels" are just experience.
5/6. Well, Team Rocket has been at every league, so... I still would've liked to have Trip battle Ash in place of Cameron, wouldn't you agree? Tobias was terrible, but he wasn't Cameron-level terrible. I mean, as soon as you saw that he was battling the trainer with a Darkrai, you could at least come to grips with the fact that he'd lose. Cameron... I still shudder from seeing someone essentially cheat their way in, only bring 5 pokes to a full battle, and actually win because of an evolution. To top it off, Ash's Oshawott and Boldore got the shaft big time. The battle was the lowest point in the series.
7. TG and TP essentially had the same amount of appearances, with the only difference being their appearances were spread throughout the series. Wouldn't have needed too many appearances from J to know that she was threatening. Honestly, I just felt underwhelmed with TP from the anime, especially after the cancellation of the TR/TP two-parter. That I blame on BW2.
8. New #8. Ash's Unova pokes really got the shaft in favour of the rat and Tepig/Pignite. Palpitoad, Unfezant, Boldore, and Scraggy were so poorly portrayed. Not enough appearances, and the were often fodder in battle for the rat, the pig, or the croc.
#1: I can kind of see where you're coming from, but to be honest, at no point did I think Ash was a great trainer. I don't think XY made him into a "god", though they certainly go out of their way to treat him like one.
#2: It's not really "teaching" anything. So does that mean Misty isn't a good role model either? Because she would regularly berate Ash and Rocko.
#4: No, but I doubt I'd care all that much more either.
#5/6: Yeah but they left Ash alone in every other league except Kanto. I would agree, actually. At least we agree that both of them sucked.
#7: True, any problems can be traced to BW2.
#8: And Skaraborn (Heracross) didn't get the shaft in Johto? Tauros didn't get the shaft in Kanto? Froxy (Froakie) and Dartiri (Fletchling) aren't being shafted in Kalos?
#1: I can kind of see where you're coming from, but to be honest, at no point did I think Ash was a great trainer. I don't think XY made him into a "god", though they certainly go out of their way to treat him like one.
#2: It's not really "teaching" anything. So does that mean Misty isn't a good role model either? Because she would regularly berate Ash and Rocko.
#4: No, but I doubt I'd care all that much more either.
#5/6: Yeah but they left Ash alone in every other league except Kanto. I would agree, actually. At least we agree that both of them sucked.
#7: True, any problems can be traced to BW2.
#8: And Skaraborn (Heracross) didn't get the shaft in Johto? Tauros didn't get the shaft in Kanto? Froxy (Froakie) and Dartiri (Fletchling) aren't being shafted in Kalos?
1. Nah, Ash was never that great of a trainer at all, for sure. Though, he was getting better OS-DP with his peak trainer competency being DP, and then BW knocked him down.
2. They gave Misty's sarcasm to Iris and turned it up to 11.
3. Well, that's basically how the rivalry started, so... Indeed, the rivalry itself was absolute garbage, but I'll agree that Trip's backstory was more interesting than Paul's, though the Paul rivalry was exponentially better. Honestly, they could've at least had Ash battle Trip in the league, but instead they gave us... Cameron...
4. Still, if you're getting a starter pokemon, it should have literally nothing but a weak STAB move and and normal. I look at May's Torchic as a good example of what a starter should be.
5/6. I honestly don't think TR interfering or not would have made a difference at all.
7. Problems such as TP and gym leader order can be traced to BW2.
8. There will always be those pokes that get the short end of the stick, but the BW team was supposed to be rotated, and people figured similar screentimes and similar amounts of battles. Palpitoad got nothing, Boldore got very little, Unfezant is one of his weakest regional birds, Snivy hardly got used, and Oshawott got treated like Piplup but with hardly any battles.
I'll be honest... I've only seen three or four episodes of Johto and nothing in between those and XY. Now it's to the point where it seems like there's too much I'd have to go back and watch. Heck, I didn't even see all of season two.
So between season one, part of season two, the few episodes of Johto and all of XY... I'll say that XY is absolutely boring. It seems like 20 of the episodes this season have been completely pointless.
After watching episode 0 of the xy series I thought it was bad how they changed Mewtwo's voice to more of a woman. The original deep voice in Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns really did sound like him. I don't know if anyone noticed that.
i honestly have to say black and white anime was the worst. i love all pokemon anime. but i hated black and white and i didnt really like the black and white anime as much as i did any other series
Sinnoh was the worst. EVERY episode was the same thing. Ash meets a trainer, the trainer has a Pokemon Ash meet before but forgot about, Team Rocket plans on stealing the Pokemon,they fail and blast off.
BW was actually one of the best, i was so glad we didn't see Team Rocket every episode doing the exact same thing like in Sinnoh. But it eventually started going downhill when Team Rocket returned to their mostly old selves.
Sinnoh was the worst. EVERY episode was the same thing. Ash meets a trainer, the trainer has a Pokemon Ash meet before but forgot about, Team Rocket plans on stealing the Pokemon,they fail and blast off.
BW was actually one of the best, i was so glad we didn't see Team Rocket every episode doing the exact same thing like in Sinnoh. But it eventually started going downhill when Team Rocket returned to their mostly old selves.
Yeah, that was unfortunately one of DP's flaws, as well as AG's flaws as well. Unfortunately, BW is still one of the worst because Ash came across as being Homer Simpson levels of stupid. Yeah, Ash has done some stupid things on the series before, but not to the level as in BW, and his losing a league and getting a worse rank than before basically settles it as being officially worse than AG, which before that was in fact the worst series ever.
1. Nah, Ash was never that great of a trainer at all, for sure. Though, he was getting better OS-DP with his peak trainer competency being DP, and then BW knocked him down.
2. They gave Misty's sarcasm to Iris and turned it up to 11.
3. Well, that's basically how the rivalry started, so... Indeed, the rivalry itself was absolute garbage, but I'll agree that Trip's backstory was more interesting than Paul's, though the Paul rivalry was exponentially better. Honestly, they could've at least had Ash battle Trip in the league, but instead they gave us... Cameron...
4. Still, if you're getting a starter pokemon, it should have literally nothing but a weak STAB move and and normal. I look at May's Torchic as a good example of what a starter should be.
5/6. I honestly don't think TR interfering or not would have made a difference at all.
7. Problems such as TP and gym leader order can be traced to BW2.
8. There will always be those pokes that get the short end of the stick, but the BW team was supposed to be rotated, and people figured similar screentimes and similar amounts of battles. Palpitoad got nothing, Boldore got very little, Unfezant is one of his weakest regional birds, Snivy hardly got used, and Oshawott got treated like Piplup but with hardly any battles.
So far for me the XY series, it has a few good points but really it just seems they're doing a lot, like showing off new Kalos Pokemon and learning new moves but it's all Ash Ash Ash. Serena has had a few episodes to herself and so far she's done nothing, and caught nothing.
1. And yet, either was better than where he was in BW
2. Well, then they gave Dawn's girly traits to Serena and turned it up to 12 then? Not as if either May, Dawn, Serena have been truly annoying. Misty's sarcasm was never truly as berating as Iris.
3. I'd rather have a mix, but that's never really happened.
5/6. They should be off the show lol
8. Luckily for you, XY is still ongoing. He caught so many in BW, yet he used some once or twice while others were used as fodder. Not saying they don't shaft pokes, but if they're gonna write it so that he rotates, at least make it look like they're rotating.
So far for me the XY series, it has a few good points but really it just seems they're doing a lot, like showing off new Kalos Pokemon and learning new moves but it's all Ash Ash Ash. Serena has had a few episodes to herself and so far she's done nothing, and caught nothing.
XY for now has second worst for me. The episodes themselves aren't complete trash, but they could do so much better. Like you said, Serena has done nothing, the lemon siblings have mostly been used as gag material, and above all they worship their god Ash.
Oh, and Team Plot Device being spammed nearly every episode to waste 2 minutes of each episode. And Team Rocket being the utter incompetent trash that they were from OS-DP.
With the opening of the General Series Discussion Thread, all topics about the series in general will belong there, including topics such as which series is the worse. This thread will now be locked but you all are free to continue debating in the new thread.
