Wibbly wobbly timey wimey... DOCTOR WHO Fan Club

[LightningAlex]

Why do people give Donna so much praise?
She didn't fawn over the Doctor yes, sassy yes. But she wasen't that GREAT of a companion, bit annoying too. And while yes it has been a while since I watched S4, did seem like she fancied him a little.
Martha, gimped by Davies writting her as a rebound, was a better companion.

Donna is my favorite companion just because she's sassy and wasn't fawning over the Doctor. Also, she'd often take matters into her own hands, and didn't always depend on the Doctor saving her.

But I also think it has something to do with the overall quality of the episodes. I really didn't like most of the episodes in season 3, and maybe that created an illusion of Martha being a bad companion for me. On the other hand, I really loved season 4, so yeah.

Now that I think about it, I really prefer the even-numbered seasons. Can't wait for season 8 :D

 

[moon]

True, the quality of the stories (in much, the overarching story across a season) affects what I think about the companions, and the Doctors too. I liked the stories of S1 better than S2 and S4 and even S3 I suppose, which might have made me grow fond of Rose more than Martha or Donna (even though Donna's sass grew on me really quickly regardless of what she did). But I did manage to enjoy Ten more than Nine.

And even though I have a feeling I'll always adore Ten as the best Doctor, I did love the plot and most episodes of S5, S6 and to an extent also S7 more than I did all the previous seasons. Eleven's seasons were brilliant, S5 was where I really felt like I wasn't just watching Doctor Who to see Ten say adorable stuff or wish for Rose to come back. In Eleven's seasons, the overarching plots, first with the cracks and then with River and eventually Clara were something to feel thrilled about. In Ten's seasons, I felt like each episode was much more set apart. Most striking example is "Midnight" in S4. So... Unnecessary?

 

[Aquacorde]

countryemo, I'd be pleased if you didn't use derogatory terms such as "gimp", thanks.

I loved Midnight, haha. It was an amazingly done episode. And I rather like when episodes are more set apart- maybe I'm just a fan of Classic style, but I like the "random adventures in space and time" feel more than "save the girl, save the universe" stuff.

As for Donna, I praise her and how she's written because she is so relateable. It's all laid bare at the end of her run, but... she's loud, she's abrasive, etc because she's pretty low on self-esteem. She puts forth a confident face because she isn't at all, but admitting that hurts worse. She genuinely thinks she's not important, that she's insignificant. But watch her development. Listen to her go from saying "but I'm just a temp!" to "Best temp in Chiswick!" Watch her go from a normal woman in her mid-thirties to the person who ended up saving the Doctor and eventually the universe- not by predetermined fate or because of others but by her own actions and being herself. And watch her lose all of that development. The heartbreak of her story is not that she forgot the Doctor, but that she lost all of that positive personal development.

That's not to say that the others are bad companions. Martha was lovely, headstrong, intelligent, and could always hold her own. She was definitely hindered by the unrequited love plot, but she got out. She did what was best for her. And she was a wonderful companion while she was around. Rose was an average girl, but she was witty and bright and adaptive and learned fast. She fell in love with the Doctor, yeah, but it was written well (at least in series 1 imo) and she didn't do things completely because of him but decided her own future, for the most part. That was good. But I just see the Doctor and Donna having a fulfilling and fairly equal relationship and I love that.

I'm not going to go into the Moffat girls. I have so many problems with their characterizations and such that I've been over so many times and don't want to get into. But as for the RTD girls, Donna is my favourite and certainly deserves the praise she gets. I don't like that she tends to be praised while the other girls are bashed, but that's a different matter, really.

On another note, I'd be willing to run this club if nobody else more active in ClubLand wanted to. It's been a while since I've done clubs but I've run a fair few pretty well. :3

 

[moon]

That's fine, Anna, you're more deserving of running this club than me :p

Yeah, Martha wasn't bad. Like I said, I was initially impressed with her since I thought she was very different from Rose. But after a while I just didn't feel like she was developing much. Not until the last episode where she had to fight her way across the globe for a year, I mean.

I don't have anything against Moffat's leadership and I don't see why people say that :p I heard some mention that Moffat had destroyed the series or something after RTD took off, but I tried to ignore that as I didn't want to judge Eleven's seasons before I had watched them. And like I said earlier, it turned out that I loved the later seasons more than the earlier ones. It's a matter of taste, I guess :3 Some enjoy "monster of the week" more than long story arcs. Mostly I like how they utilized time travel better in S5 than previously. When Eleven grabbed the vortex manipulator and the fez and started hopping around, I was on my toes.

I'm trying to get my boyfriend to start watching Doctor Who, haha. He refuses. He's a very non-nerdy kind of person, so I try to start with S5 and the 11th Doctor for him, since he won't appreciate the less movie-styled way of filming they have in Nine's and Ten's seasons. Know what I mean?

EDIT: haha, just came across some pics from the set of series 8 filming. I feel like this is going to be sort of like how Rose and Ten started to fit together pretty quickly; Clara and Twelve seem like an awesome pair somehow already after regeneration! And I don't mean romantically, I can see how they'll develop some kind of father-daughter relationship or something like that, especially after Clara saw the Doctor age so much in the Christmas special. Let Eleven have his Amy fairytale.

Spoiler:

 

[Meganium]

Club ownership has been transferred to Aquacorde!~ Have fun, guys!

 

[moon]

I wonder what Twelve's catchphrase is going to be 8)

 

[Aquacorde]

ty megan <3 be my co-owner tho rika? imma get around to revamping the OP later ok guys :D

You're right about Martha and I think that's where I'm a little annoyed haha. I mean, she developed exponentially more offscreen than onscreen and that's just... not good for a character-driven show, really.

I have to say I really enjoyed series 5. There were minor ??? moments and a few plotholes but overall I think it all came together pretty well. The Doctor's characterization was better in s5 than later series as well- less sexism, less forcing himself on people (read:women and Rory), better portrayal of an old being in a young body. Amy's was a little disagreeable in that everything revolved around her but eh, that's the direction things have been going in. More irksome was how she treated Rory. :| I did like that she was confident and bright and her initial relationship with the Doctor was interesting- the fact that he obviously still saw her as a child and it freaked him out to have her act like an adult lol. Still don't like that he consistently (past mid-season and later) treated her as normal adults treat a child- the Doctor has always treated people of any age as people. idk.

I don't mind some of what Moffat's done, but a significant portion of it either a) grates on me because it's Doctor Who and he's been a fan and should know better or b) is him turning the show into his personal fanfic. I'm not a big fan of Moffat as a person, either- he apparently does not understand legitimate criticisms of his work and dismisses people's comments and concerns.

Series 5 is definitely a good place to start in on the newer seasons- like you said it's very cinematic and definitely told more like a movie than previous seasons. And it's a fresh start; there's hardly a mention of previous adventures in the entirety of the season (not counting River). I've recommended it before as a jumping-off point for people watching on their own, though my friends and I started with Nine's run and I started my sister with Pertwee-era episodes and my brothers with Trial of a Time Lord. (the boys all agree that Sixie's the best and that makes me happy <33)

I love love love what I'm seeing of Twelve and Clara already. I'd adore a parent-child bond; that would be hella after six seasons of romance. I'm pretty sure we'll get a side order of romance tho considering Clara's coworker but still! Dad and daughter adventures, yay!

I wonder if he'll even have a catchphrase? If he does, I hope it's not something very forced. :x

 

[moon]

Are co-owners necessary? :p what do they do even, haha. I think you'll manage it fine <3

Yeah, S5 is a good place to start if you're not planning to watch the show because you love the Doctor but rather because you want to watch a good show. I was a bit sad that all of Ten's people just went off the grid though. Like, Eleven could easily have met up with Martha and Mickey once in a while, and Jack also for that matter. I saw that he did meet Sarah Jane again in that spinoff series. But the Ood? Were they just strongly connected with Ten and let go of him when he regenerated? etc etc

And also I always thought GERONIMO was somewhat forced and silly, even though it felt better after some time. Allons-y was silly beyond measure, but it fit Ten so incredibly well since he's also silly beyond everything. I wonder if Tennant was the one who came up with it on a whim, because Ten's original, real phrase is BRILLIANT, right?

ALSO random but can I just say that in the 50th special when Eleven and Ten put on their glasses and turn to look at each other with "ooh, lovely!" is the best thing I have seen ever, hands down. My cuteness senses go haywire just by thinking of it.

 

[Aquacorde]

NEWS UP! Keeley Hawes has been cast as a villain for one episode of season 8!

Spoiler:

The actress will guest star in an episode in Peter Capaldi's first series as the Time Lord.

"Anyone watching the amazing Line Of Duty will know that Keeley Hawes is having one hell of year," said Doctor Who boss Steven Moffat.

"And now it's about to get even better as she achieves the greatest villainy yet attempted on Doctor Who: she plays a banker."

Hawes, who previously starred in BBC dramas Ashes to Ashes and Spooks, plays Ms Delphox, who is described as "a powerful out of this world character with a dark secret".

The story, written by Steve Thompson, sees the twelfth Doctor and his companion, Clara Oswald (Jenna Coleman), meet Ms Delphox when they arrive "on a strange and puzzling planet".

The episode is directed by Douglas Mackinnon, whose previous work includes Line of Duty and Doctor Who.

Hawes said: "I am delighted to join Doctor Who and to be working with this incredible team. Ms Delphox is a great character and someone I've had a lot of fun playing."

Delphox, eh? I'm pretty sure they've come up with that independently out of the root Delphi than grabbing a name straight from Pokémon. I guess she'll have some type of innate psychic/foretelling powers because of that, but since she's apparently not human it remains to be seen if that's a characteristic of her race or unique to her.

~~~~

In the past co-owners have been responsible for moderation of discussion and been event facilitators but tbh clubs have gotten much more discussion-based (as opposed to community-based) and freeform (rather than directed by club leaders etc). It's not a necessary position but still one that's around in other places I think!

I've updated the OP and made it a bit prettier and updated the club roster with new names and new members! I hope I got everything right haha. If there's anything y'all think should be in there just mention it. :P

You're right about Mickey, Martha, and Jack. Especially Jack, as he's not exactly disassociated from what ends up going on. And the Doctor certainly still has Martha's phone. I hope she calls him up again. :3 Pretty sure Moffat did a lot to cut ties from Davies' run. I don't know how much of a good thing that is. A lot of Davies' characters and their stories were interwoven with not only the Doctor's but each other's, and while that was cool, it made it hard to get out of that little circle of characters and explore new territory. Over the years of Classic Who it was pretty rare that the Doctor came back into the lives of his previous companions. The only real exceptions were the Brigadier and Sarah Jane (and I guess a few more Unit people and Jo Grant)- the rest travelled with him for some time and then left and took their lives in another direction. The amount of reappearances of characters post-2005 is astounding, especially in the way that Davies did it- he managed to make a community based around the Doctor (no, not talking about the Love and Monsters one). And it's cool. But again, hard to break away from.
Moffat broke away by cutting ties with almost everything that happened before. I don't think it was the cleanest break, and it was well irritating when he decided to just ignore a fair few things (like CANON EVENTS), but it opened the show back up to more possibilities. The Doctor really needs to get away from present/recent past/near future Earth more. I mean, that hasn't totally been accomplished, but the possibility is back and it's getting there. He's less bound by people now. He's retaining connections again, I think- Coal Hill teachers, Clara's family, Kate Stewart's team, presumably Craig- but I don't think these are people that will bind him (and the show) to Earth. Which I'd appreciate.

The Ood... there's a mystery. It's interesting that the Doctor met them with Rose but I feel like they're more associated with him and Donna, especially since the two freed the race. Maybe that was why they disappeared then- once he regenerated, there was no longer any danger to Donna. She and her family were no longer part of the Doctor's life- Wilf wouldn't be able to recognize him, nevermind keeping away for Donna's sake. Maybe it wasn't really Ten that they were connected to but Donna. idk.

I feel like catchphrases have two categories- "appropriate to story" and "merchandising opportunity". Fantastic and Brilliant are the former and the kind I prefer, Allons-y and Geronimo are more the latter. Though Allons-y certainly fit better than Geronimo, it's still more a phrase you can put on a sock. Let's not forget "bowties are cool" and variations shoehorned in at every opportunity either. :|

The glasses thing was quite possibly the cutest, most in-character interaction that those two had lmao. That kind of childlike glee that both of them have came out right then and aw cuties. :D

 

[Major Gripex]

WARNING: RANT ABOUT THE 50th ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL

Spoiler:

I have to say, I was very disappointed after the 50th Anniversary Episode. To add a whole new Doctor was a complete mistake. Sure it was interesting... but as someone who started with Eccleston as the 9th, it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Moreover, I had a hard time enjoying the 50th because I couldn't help be speculate that the "War Doctor" was actually suppose to be Eccleston himself. Now this is just a theory, mind you, but I feel like the writers meant for Eccleston to return in the movie, and his role would have basically have been John Hurt's role. But being the stubborn man that he is, he turned it down and Moffat was forced to come up with this "other Doctor" plot. Now 9 is 10, 11 is 12, and 7, ate 9. It's madness.

Well that is just my rant. Sorry if I offended any Whovians with my opinion, but it's something on my chest I needed to air out. To be fair.. my boyfriend will most likely make me watch the new episodes when they start and I'll more than likely love them... but for now I'll just enjoy my bitter soup. =/

 

[Aquacorde]

That's fair but um. Would you like to join the club? People are generally discouraged from randomly posting in clubs they aren't members of. :|

The problem I see with speculating that the War Doctor was meant to be Eccleston is just... why would it have been him? McGann makes much more sense to have been the one who ended the war. That's where Big Finish Adventures have been going all this time. And they made him and all his BFAs canon when they made the prequel to Day of the Doctor. McGann was clearly willing to return to the role on screen- he hasn't even really left it considering BFA. So why, then, was he minimally involved?
I really think that Moffat wanted to make sure he got the big plotlines. I mean, think about what he's been doing. First, the direct destruction and saving of the universe. The "death" of the Doctor and the universe and again, the rescuing of both. Inserting Clara into the entire life of the Doctor to save him- she's interacted with every single regeneration now, he's changed the canon just like that. He got the 50th. And he made sure he'd get the new set of regenerations plotline. Which was terribly executed imo.

So that's that theory.

 

[Major Gripex]

That's fair but um. Would you like to join the club? People are generally discouraged from randomly posting in clubs they aren't members of. :|

The problem I see with speculating that the War Doctor was meant to be Eccleston is just... why would it have been him? McGann makes much more sense to have been the one who ended the war. That's where Big Finish Adventures have been going all this time. And they made him and all his BFAs canon when they made the prequel to Day of the Doctor. McGann was clearly willing to return to the role on screen- he hasn't even really left it considering BFA. So why, then, was he minimally involved?
I really think that Moffat wanted to make sure he got the big plotlines. I mean, think about what he's been doing. First, the direct destruction and saving of the universe. The "death" of the Doctor and the universe and again, the rescuing of both. Inserting Clara into the entire life of the Doctor to save him- she's interacted with every single regeneration now, he's changed the canon just like that. He got the 50th. And he made sure he'd get the new set of regenerations plotline. Which was terribly executed imo.

So that's that theory.

Yeah, I have nothing to back my theory on. Just pure speculation based on rumors and things that have been said about Eccleston. Honestly, I would have preferred McGann to have a bigger part than John Hurt. My main point of contention is really being annoyed that every Doctor from 9 got bumped up a spot.

Also, I felt like they too quickly handled the question of the "Doctor's Final Regeneration" but that's another story....

Anyway, I talked to my future self and he re-assured me that the next season is awesome. Also, apologies about just dropping in like that. The user to post previously was another future version of me. You know how, wibbly wobbly this can get. Anyway, the Doctor has banned from future rides on the T.a.R.D.i.S to assure something like this doesn't occur again in the future... relative time. Apologies!

Username:Major Gripex
Favorite Doctor:3rd
Favorite Companion: Susan

 

[Aquacorde]

I feel confident that Eccleston was approached for but turned down involvement in the 50th, but I feel like it would have been because of the proposed script. Like, this is kind of a retcon of his Doctor's whole story. I get that. I get why he would turn that down. But would they not have approached McGann before going on to write in a whole new Doctor? I feel sure that McGann would have certainly played the role- if the script had called for it. But I'm pretty sure the War Doctor was conceived and written before anyone else was approached for involvement.
imo numbering is not a problem. It's just now 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 WAR (non-canon 9) 9 10 (10.5) 11 12. nbd. :D

As I've said before, I have high hopes for Capaldi's influence on the show and were they're going next. Potentially Gallifrey, right? Or at least spending a good amount of time in space visiting non-Earth places.

 

[countryemo]

I don't think it was the cleanest break, and it was well irritating when he decided to just ignore a fair few things (like CANON EVENTS), but it opened the show back up to more possibilities.

Like? He asked Amy about the Dalek invasion from the S4 finale, mentioned and kept in tie with the end of time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for John Hurt, I guess it makes sense for McGann/Eccleston for to be the third doctor. But I loved Hurt so much it dosen't bother me anymore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spoiler:

So the news on S5 is everyone is in suits, and theirs something robotic. Might be Ms. Delphox's episode.

 

[Aquacorde]

Yeah, that's one reference not brought up ever again. That's not anything to do with the fact that Moffat ignored a fair bit of established canon. I didn't say he ignored all of it, and he did refer back to some, but there are a significant amount times he blatantly went against what had previously been established. He breaks rules. Even in a universe as free as Doctor Who's, that's a problem. I don't want to watch a show where there are no rules, because without constraints, how is there tension?

Take this post about the Weeping Angels. This is a Moffat-created enemy. They have appeared in four episodes barring minor appearances/mentions. He broke pretty much every rule about them in one episode. And they were his. Just. What? There's also the mystery of how River even existed to help Amy call the Doctor back into the universe in s5. Eleven cheerfully and constantly crosses his own timeline, something we've been told is a terrible, near-impossible thing over and over again for generations. Why? While it's a fun use of time travel plotlines, it doesn't make sense with the internal continuity of the show. Whatever happened to "can't use the TARDIS now that we're part of events?" There are just an unignorable amount of plot holes under Moffat's leadership imo. Not that others didn't have ridiculousness going on, but his run is positively riddled with them.

Here's a lovely video focusing on the sexualization and sexism of the Doctor, as well.

edit: ah, and I should probably just leave this post here as well.

SO, THE DOCTOR STOPPED HIS DEATH ON TRENZALORE…
-So his grave was never on Trenzalore
-So Clara could never have jumped into the Doctor's time stream
-So Clara never got splintered through time and space
-So Clara never met the Doctor in 19th century London
-So the Doctor never went to find Clara
-So none of Series 7 makes sense.

gonna drop in an overview of the 50th by Miss Claudia Boleyn as well because I'm really impressed by her wow

 

[moon]

I'm still very disappointed with the Doctor more or less completely cutting the ties he had with people from his time as Ten. Of course he'd pretty much built a family around himself, based in London because that's where he found Rose and her family and kept returning to to let her meet them now and then.

Regarding the 50th, I would have loved to see McGann be the one to make the decision, rather than a new Doctor. What's bothering me a bit is the continuity in another way. Okay, time streams were wibbly so War Doctor forgot all about hiding Gallifrey when he had regenerated into 9 and just knew that Gallifrey and the Daleks were gone and blamed himself.

But in Ten's last episode, the Time Lords try to come back. Ten is suddenly aware that they aren't dead, but rather hidden in time. Did he get a flashback to the events of the 50th? And he doesn't really miss them, he does his best to keep the power hungry Time Lords in shack and send them back into their lock. But then when Eleven realizes that they are still alive (again??) he only wants to keep them there because they'd cause the biggest war ever if they returned, and after everything ends he still want to find Gallifrey, despite all. Or am I confusing myself. I don't understand. Just. Okay, point is, that episode with the Master and Time Lords and Ten makes little sense to me overall, probably. /rant

Eleven cheerfully and constantly crosses his own timeline, something we've been told is a terrible, near-impossible thing over and over again for generations. Why? While it's a fun use of time travel plotlines, it doesn't make sense with the internal continuity of the show. Whatever happened to "can't use the TARDIS now that we're part of events?"

Ah, but I loved this. The final episode of S5 is gold because of all the ridiculous time travel and people meeting their other selves. I kind of accepted it by thinking that Eleven is the man who forgets. While he can be really serious in some ways, he also is the most carefree ever, in a way Ten never had conscience to be. Eleven pokes around with time in a way Ten didn't dare to. And it makes for great plots and wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff 8)

 

[countryemo]

See thats what I do, I think of each doctor has its own era and kinda with some strings holding it together, and the show changes with that.

The angels have been getting messy, but Moffat says no more from him, the S7 debate is well I'm just trying to forget it and enjoy it anywhere, the the whole sexism thing, meh.

 

[moon]

Oh right, about the whole avoiding death on Trenzalore thing... I was thinking about that the other day. And it really bugs me O.o But still, like when Amy retained memories of her adventures with the Doctor after the cracks closed, maybe Clara and the Doctor could retain memories of every time they had met despite the actual meetings being erased? Or something.

EDIT: btw I saw Doctor Who The Movie and the 8th Doctor is adorbs ^^ Pity the movie was so short. I liked him in the 50th special too. Totally wished that he would have had the major part instead of the "War Doctor".

 

[Aquacorde]

But in Ten's last episode, the Time Lords try to come back. Ten is suddenly aware that they aren't dead, but rather hidden in time. Did he get a flashback to the events of the 50th? And he doesn't really miss them, he does his best to keep the power hungry Time Lords in shack and send them back into their lock. But then when Eleven realizes that they are still alive (again??) he only wants to keep them there because they'd cause the biggest war ever if they returned, and after everything ends he still want to find Gallifrey, despite all. Or am I confusing myself. I don't understand. Just. Okay, point is, that episode with the Master and Time Lords and Ten makes little sense to me overall, probably. /rant

Ah the thing is-- when 10 saw them, they were coming from a different point in time. They were Time-Locked and trying to get out of that, but they weren't yet frozen in a pocket universe. The Time Lock contained everything about the war that Ten spouted off, but mostly the Daleks and Gallifreyans. The pocket universe only contains Gallifrey. So now it can be brought back safely. It makes a sort of sense.

Ah, but I loved this. The final episode of S5 is gold because of all the ridiculous time travel and people meeting their other selves. I kind of accepted it by thinking that Eleven is the man who forgets. While he can be really serious in some ways, he also is the most carefree ever, in a way Ten never had conscience to be. Eleven pokes around with time in a way Ten didn't dare to. And it makes for great plots and wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff 8)

I know it's cool and the tricks are interesting but it's going against decades of in-universe lore and like. There've gotta be rules otherwise there's never anything at stake. :|

The angels have been getting messy, but Moffat says no more from him, the S7 debate is well I'm just trying to forget it and enjoy it anywhere, the the whole sexism thing, meh.

I really think that the increase of sexism within the scripts are definitely needing to be addressed. I mean, I don't mind if people don't want to have that discussion, but I'd really like people to be aware of those issues and why it's a problem.

Oh right, about the whole avoiding death on Trenzalore thing... I was thinking about that the other day. And it really bugs me O.o But still, like when Amy retained memories of her adventures with the Doctor after the cracks closed, maybe Clara and the Doctor could retain memories of every time they had met despite the actual meetings being erased? Or something.

EDIT: btw I saw Doctor Who The Movie and the 8th Doctor is adorbs ^^ Pity the movie was so short. I liked him in the 50th special too. Totally wished that he would have had the major part instead of the "War Doctor".

I mean I guess? Idk it kind of works but it just... doesn't really make a lot of sense.

IKR EIGHT IS THE CUTEST <33 Suffered from a not-so-wonderfully written movie but gosh Paul McGann more than made up for that. I liked John Hurt but like I said. Him being there doesn't really make sense.

 

[Eevee3]

I just started watching the series ^^ I'm in season 2 so far and I love this show!

Username: Eevee
Favorite Doctor: The 9th
Favorite Companion: Rose Tyler