Chit-Chat: Wiicked Cool Daily Chit-Chat

[Satoshi Ookami]

I was going to put off playing it until I platted the Vita version, but that seems unlikely to happen anytime this year, so I might dive into it in-between FFXIV grinding. It might help me get better at the Vita version anyway! I started again a while back now and I have no idea how I managed to get to the state I was in beforehand...you might say I'm having trouble penetrating the game, haha.

Haha, lol =D But you should still plat the Vita version first so you can import the save ;)

but if they destroy Asuna's character again in the story I'll be skipping the cutscenes again the same way I did with Hollow Fragment after I realised I wasn't going to get anything coherent out of it. I really want to like it, because I like the concept, but the presentation and the cast...agh,

Well, it is meant to give those who don't like Asuna also a chance to choose their heroine ;)
It's good Asuna is backgrounded.

 

[pkmin3033]

Did Asuna really have more character in SAO? I'd say she did before she was reintroduced later and rabu became a thing. So basically for one episodes. But I have pretty strong feelings against her so I can't much say her not being in most of ALO was a minus for me. Not that the cast of that season was much better, of course. Essentially, once she became a main character and then I realized Kirito wasn't much better (or worse?), my interest in the show started to wane since those two were the main characters. Still not as bad as ALO, though, but that's kind of why I'm looking forward to Lost Song (and HF, where apparently you got to play a Kirito not-Kirito, which is a huge step up from Infinity Moment for me).

Despite my feelings for the show and its 2 MCs, I've always felt it had potential (still do), and Lost Song really does seem like a chance to make better a season that was devoid of what made SAO so interesting to begin with. SAO was interesting- just straight off- because it effectively showed the world of SAO and it looked interesting, and as time went on it showed more of it. ALO was "Here are forests, you're a fairy. There's a tower, save your girlfriend," and...well, that was it. Yet ironically, Lost Song looks to be a pretty open game in contrast to HF/IM. To its credit, IM/HF was pretty...not complex, but deep and gave a bit of choice in building your character, and considering this time around you get to make your own (which makes me a happy duck) and that there's multiplayer, that's more important this time around. Plus the game'll supposedly have its own story, so there's that. Not really sure why they're adding Accel World MC; apparently the two canons are tied, now.

Eh, but I'm rambling.

Well, perhaps not more character (although nobody in the show really did) but she definitely had potential, and I really did not approve of her becoming an appendage to Kirito and nothing else. I warmed up to her a little initially because she was clearly competent, unlike every other girl in the show, but shortly after she started taking a more active role in things she was eclipsed again, and then in the second half reduced to a helpless damsel in a cage. She's a prime example of why I hate romance; it ruins potentially good female protagonists. I had hoped that Hollow Fragment, ignoring that, would do her character a little more justice.

I can't say I particularly care either way anymore, because it's clear she'll never amount to anything, but there was more than just Asuna that was wrong with the ALO arc and I hope it doesn't translate into the game. It might have just been pacing issues in the anime; I've not read the manga. But rushing from one virtual world to another when they already had a great concept that they just needed to develop a little more rubbed me the wrong way. But if Lost Song has got its own story, and the gameplay is as good as it looks...should be alright, it should flesh out ALO where the anime didn't. Will have to wait and see, I guess. I don't like the cast or the idea of moving onto another half-formed virtual world, but I like the gameplay, the concept, and the potential for proper expansion, so I'm not going to miss it.

I suppose the writer just wanted to tie their works together, although one of the ways they could make SAO worse would be to associate it with Accel World...I really hated that show, and the concept wasn't even remotely appealing.

I'd say go Vita, personally. I will be, and not specifically because I don't have a PS4. The game, graphically, doesn't look bad, but the way I see it, if I can get the game for $40 and play it on my Vita and PSTV, I don't see much reason to pay the extra $20 for a similar experience. 'Specially since the multiplayer isn't local (not that I know that I'll use it at all). The game'll look great on the PSTV, too. Disgaea 4 Vita did, Danganronpa looked pretty sharp, among other games.

That is...a very good idea! I have a PSTV which I've never actually used; I bought it in a sale thinking I'd use it to play certain Vita games (Tales of Hearts R, Freedom Wars, and Toukiden mainly) but I've not gotten around to it yet...I really wish I'd thought of that; now I just feel silly, haha. It's actually all the more appealing because I don't have PS+ and have no intention of getting it until they put up some free games that are actually worth it, so I'll actually get to try the multiplayer if I go with the Vita version. Freeing up £50 also means I can afford something else in November. xD

Haha, lol =D But you should still plat the Vita version first so you can import the save ;)

But it handles so poorly! The translation is crap, the controls are all wrong, and I can't get OSS to work no matter what I do because of how shit the controls are and how small the window of opportunity is. Importing the save would be nice, as it'd cut me down several hours, but I'd have to make a save worth importing first...

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

But it handles so poorly! The translation is crap, the controls are all wrong, and I can't get OSS to work no matter what I do because of how muk the controls are and how small the window of opportunity is. Importing the save would be nice, as it'd cut me down several hours, but I'd have to make a save worth importing first...

Well, I liked the translation more than the PS4 version. :P
And the controls...? What is bad about it? PS4 version has the same layout =D
OSS? That's fun =D Just register it (yea, that is a bit ugly) and it's easy as pie =D
Also, in terms of OSS, it's better to do it by visual memory of the skill rather than waiting for the purple dot =D

 

[machomuu]

Well, I liked the translation more than the PS4 version. :P

Eh, really? Was it because the PS4 version's script was boring?

I could easily see myself buying the Vita version- apart from price, for the more entertaining script (assuming that is the case).

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

Eh, really? Was it because the PS4 version's script was boring?

It's probably just me...
I don't like too free translation (when it's translated with the same meaning in English but loses the true Japanese meaning).
Plus, it felt TOO forced to look proper.



And Vita version is better ;) 11M 6 OSS damage > 2M 7 OSS damage
SP usage > skill cooldown

 

[pkmin3033]

Well, I liked the translation more than the PS4 version. :P
And the controls...? What is bad about it? PS4 version has the same layout =D
OSS? That's fun =D Just register it (yea, that is a bit ugly) and it's easy as pie =D
Also, in terms of OSS, it's better to do it by visual memory of the skill rather than waiting for the purple dot =D

...why? You couldn't even call it a proper translation - it was mangled Engrish half the time! It might as well have not even been translated for all that they did to it! It was offensively poor, and none of the patches noteably fixed it. They were horribly lazy bringing it to western shores on Vita.
Well, the O and X buttons are incorrectly assigned, for starters...
That's easier said than done. It's infuriatingly awkward to do, which I suppose is the point if you can hit ridiculous amounts of damage with it, but it'd be better if it was difficult by design, rather than poor interface and controls.
Half the difficulty of the game comes from trying to work your way around its poor design and crappy translation; the PS4 version at least fixed the most glaring issues and made it playable. Of course, that still leaves the painful grinds, but...eh, I've weathered worse. Compared to Disgaea 4 it's quick and easy. xD

 

[machomuu]

...why? You couldn't even call it a proper translation - it was mangled Engrish half the time! It might as well have not even been translated for all that they did to it! It was offensively poor, and none of the patches noteably fixed it. They were horribly lazy bringing it to western shores on Vita.

Pretty much what you expect with Bamco

I'd partially understand if the PS4 script was boring, but according to Satoshi they just got liberal with it. That I don't mind as much, because it at least gives the impression that they tried to get creative with dialog that otherwise probably would have been generic harem drivel. After all, SAO isn't exactly known for its great dialog.

 

[pkmin3033]

Pretty much what you expect with Bamco

I'd partially understand if the PS4 script was boring, but according to Satoshi they just got liberal with it. That I don't mind as much, because it at least gives the impression that they tried to get creative with dialog that otherwise probably would have been generic harem drivel. After all, SAO isn't exactly known for its great dialog.

I only wish I could refute that, but I have to agree with you...

I don't mind if they get liberal with the script; I'd expect them to, in fact. It's the same sort of thing fansubbers do when altering Japanese sentence structure so that it actually makes sense for English-speaking audiences, I'd expect. If they take it one step further for whatever reason in games, that's fine with me; especially in a franchise like SAO which is, as you say, generic harem drivel. Fansubbers don't have to concern themselves with cultural differences or whatever else; developers do, and they have the ESRB to contend with as well. Changes to the script are to be expected.

I just find Engrish or obviously incomplete translations in games incredibly offensive. I realise that they might only be doing it to make money or in response to excessive fan demand and might not particularly care, but that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean they can just do whatever the hell they like. This "good enough" attitude developers are adopting with Japanese games now, through incomplete translation attempts or - more commonly - not bothering to hire voice actors and just giving us the Japanese audio, bugs the hell out of me; it's lazy and disrespectful.

Sure, we could not get the games at all and I am aware that a) they owe me nothing and don't have to explain themselves, b) if I don't like it I don't have to buy it, c) I should be grateful for what I get and d) a lot of my feelings on the matter come from a misplaced sense of fan entitlement I am always whining about, making me a hypocrite, but...well, those don't excuse such blatant laziness, and I'm also not inclined to be particularly forgiving when EU territories get shafted in regards to release dates anyway. If you're going to do it, do it right, and do it properly. I think we're entitled to a certain level of quality as consumers, and it's not like that many developers struggle with delivering it. Lord knows I've never had this issue like this with an NIS title...as bad as the likes of Mugen Souls and Time and Eternity were, at least the dialogue was understandable. Hell, even Mind = Zero, one of the worst games I have ever played, had English voice acting and was properly translated. Much as I loathed it, clearly an effort had been put into localising it. Expecting what we've always had in the past isn't unreasonable, I don't think.

Well, whatever, I guess. But heaven bloody help them if they do to Cyber Sleuth what they did to the Vita version of Hollow Fragment...

...but I do go on. xD

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

...why? You couldn't even call it a proper translation - it was mangled Engrish half the time! It might as well have not even been translated for all that they did to it! It was offensively poor, and none of the patches noteably fixed it. They were horribly lazy bringing it to western shores on Vita.

Engrish > too western oriented script :P

Well, the O and X buttons are incorrectly assigned, for starters...

That's just you not adapted to Japanese layout :P
It actually makes much more sense to confirm with O and cancel with X if you think about it...

That's easier said than done. It's infuriatingly awkward to do, which I suppose is the point if you can hit ridiculous amounts of damage with it, but it'd be better if it was difficult by design, rather than poor interface and controls.

Listen to Chie :P

 

[machomuu]

Engrish > too western oriented script :P

I'd disagree. Engrish scripts, as hilarious as they can be, have absolutely no character- they're just adaptations (and bad ones). Getting immersed in games like that is really difficult because you're constantly being pulled out by typos and/or grammatically incorrect statements, and generally they're only meant to be servicable.

Scripts that are too liberal, sure, they aren't faithful, but oftentimes these get too liberal because the writer just tries too hard in trying to retain the impact of the original script. Generally, these do have character, and lemme tell you, I doubt the HDN games (Re;birth, specifically) would have any play value if it were in Engrish because the series is largely about its quirky characters. They wouldn't be fun at all, they'd just be...spewing nonsense. That's it. Yeah, I'll take the liberally creative script over the one that makes less sense than if they hadn't translated it at all.

 

[pkmin3033]

I don't think it's possible to retain the full impact of the original script a lot of the time in any case...the Japanese have a completely different mindset towards various things; stuff that makes little to no sense in a Western context. We don't have a whole host of honorifics for others the way the Japanese do, as a rather prominent example. There is no language equivalent; sometimes there isn't even a way to convey the attitude itself, other than in a very broad and roundabout fashion. The dynamics between a lot of relationships are totally different.

If things like that just don't translate properly, why keep them in there at all? For the sake of being faithful to the original script? It means something in context, but only if you're Japanese - if you fail to grasp its significance, then it's just meaningless and confusing babble. What the Japanese can convey in a single honorific or word can take several sentences if you attempt to translate it, and you can argue that direct Engrish or not, the entire meaning is lost in the translation anyway, because it doesn't translate at all. Adapting a script to make grammatical sense and convey a similar sort of attitude that Western gamers can at least relate to isn't bad writing. The fault lies in the underlying incompatibility between cultures, not with either of the scripts.

In a text heavy game like a JRPG, it's important for the player to be able to understand and relate to what is being said. The simple truth is that, for most people, directly translated Engrish scripts are neither understandable nor relatable, and attempting to do either is an unnecessary headache. The whole point of localising a title is to make it understandable, and understanding goes deeper than just translating the text into a language the player can read. Localisation has never been "just put the text in English" and any developer who treats it as such is either lazy or incompetent. Or both. Hollow Fragment is a clear example of both at work; it was humourous in places for how abysmally poor it was, but I highly doubt that it conveyed the original Japanese meaning. The words used, yes, but not the meaning of those words in context, a context that was entirely lost due to the lack of even an attempt to localise it.

tl;dr machomuu said it better than I could. Think of his post as the English language version and mine as the muddled Engrish version. xD

 

[Wicked3DS]

I'm really considering buying the first Tomb Raider game in the series reboot since it looks really cool, anyone out there who can vouch for it/wants to warn against it?

 

[Morkula]

I enjoyed it a lot. It's got some gruesome moments and there are some frustrating firefights, but it's a really good game and I'm looking forward to seeing how Rise of the Tomb Raider turns out. Should be pretty cheap now too.

 

[derozio]

I never finished the game (sort of just got stuck at one point and had a lot of other games on my plate so sorta forgot about it haha). But what I played of it was REALLY enjoyable. The combat is well done and the graphics were great. Story seemed like it'd turn out well too. And it has had a very favorable response from most that have played it. So I'd say go for it. I'm DEFINITELY completing it one of these days for sure.

 

[Leviathan]

I suddenly want to have another go at trying to get the platinum trophy for Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, after not touching it in well over a year.. Considering how much the Monsoon and final boss fights ticked me off, this should be a barrel of fun.

 

[pkmin3033]

I suddenly want to have another go at trying to get the platinum trophy for Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, after not touching it in well over a year.. Considering how much the Monsoon and final boss fights ticked me off, this should be a barrel of fun.

Good luck! From the rarity of it, looks like you'll need it! xD

Although rarity is highly deceptive as to a trophy's difficulty sometimes...Dishonored's Void Star has a rarity of around 13%, but only 51 people have attempted the DLC, and only 15 people have it. I'm not even going to attempt it; I'll settle with platting the base game, aha.

 

[Leviathan]

I think I have Dishonoured in my digital backlog somewhere. I shall have to download it and see what it's like!

As for this game, thanks! I need all the luck I can get, haha. I bought the Grey Fox dlc for it, so I'm hoping it'll make short work of the harder enemies in more difficult modes. I was debating trying to plat this game or [Prototype]. I just remember that both games were tough as nails for me to play the last time I played 'em. :(

 

[pkmin3033]

I'd definitely recommend it when you get a chance - it's one of those rare games where it's equally fun to sneak about unseen and run through the streets as a mindless killing machine...and it promotes both options if you want the plat, aha.

Fast-paced action games are usually quite hard to get the hang of, I think...at least, Bayonetta always destroyed me on harder difficulties, and the less said about Vanquish, the better. From what I've seen of Metal Gear Rising it's equally fast-paced - unsurprising, since it's made by the same developers! - so I haven't dared to try it. xD

 

[Leviathan]

Shall do! I like games like that, and I'm very slowly starting to play stealth games that don't revolve around a certain anthropomorphic racoon. c:

Urkkkk I vividly remember Bayonetta utterly destroying me on normal difficulty before. I wonder how hard the sequel is!

 

[pkmin3033]

I've actually been meaning to get into that series, although I'm not sure what I should try first - Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter, or Ratchet and Clank. I wasn't really a Sony gamer when that era of platformers came about, so I've not tried any of them yet. Would you recommend starting with Sly, or one of the other ones?

I only bought Bayonetta because the boss themes blew my ears clean off, and I really regretted it when I came to the second boss and couldn't get past it...the easiest difficulty was almost insulting, yet anything higher than that was ridiculously difficult! I might get the second on Wii U at some point for something to play, even if it's probably more of the same over-the-top gameplay. It's just TOO DAMN FAST TO FOLLOW. xD