6th Gen X/Y Quick Q&A (Read First Post)

[Miau]

Yep; two games, one 3DS. I've transferred Pokemon between them using Pokemon Bank, and the German ones have a GER tag when transferred to the English game and similarly the English ones have an ENG tag when transferred to the German game. And yeah, I get the Pokedex entry in the other language too. It treats it just like a foreign Pokemon.

Huh, good to know. I've always based my MM breeding on those tags.

Thing is, before gen 6, the MM was actually based on the cartridge's language (not real-world location or anything like that). I'm wondering then, now that we are able to change the language, will the MM be based on the language we chose, thus making those tags actually a valid way of breeding for shiny?

[EDIT]

Editing because I just saw your post: the Masuda Method is based on language -- or at least, was.

Basically, according to bulbapedia [1], when breeding, the game looks at the "home location" of the two Pokemon, i.e. 0x17. If it detects the two Pokemon have different "home locations", the chance for shiny increases. And if we look at the Pokemon data structure description for the DS [2], we can see that the possible values for 0x17 are actually the 7 languages, not countries or other geographical stuff. "Home location" is just a horrible way of naming that info, it is actually the original language of the game.

Sources:
[1] https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_method
[2] https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_Black/White_NDS_Structure and https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_Black/White_NDS_Structure#Original_Language

 

[Howmander]

were Deoxys, Genesect, Keldeo and Meloetta were available in Dream World? Or is this a mistake on the website's part or was it a plan that never went through? I ask because I can't find any videos on youtube showing the capture of any of these so I was just wondering if it is accurate or not. thanks! https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue19/dreamworld

 

[Banned]

Basically, according to bulbapedia [1], when breeding, the game looks at the "home location" of the two Pokemon, i.e. 0x17. If it detects the two Pokemon have different "home locations", the chance for shiny increases. And if we look at the Pokemon data structure description for the DS [2], we can see that the possible values are actually the 7 languages, not countries or other geographical stuff. "Home location" is just a horrible way of naming that info, it is actually the original language of the game.

Sources:
[1] https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_method
[2] https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_Black/White_NDS_Structure and https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_Black/White_NDS_Structure#Original_Language

This assumes that nothing has changed since the DS games. Your second source is for Black and White; the system could have been completely overhauled since then, or at least tweaked so that the seven values now relate to seven regions of the world. And that Bulbapedia page hasn't been updated properly for Gen VI yet (for the precise reason that very little solid information is known).

However, having said all this, this is the best reasoning I've come across so far, so I'm inclined to go with it anyway :P It would be very messy to change the coding significantly, and I can't see Game Freak bothering with that to be honest.

 

[Miau]

Well, the article says so itself:

Below is a quick run-through of some of the notable Pokemon of the metagame, all of whom in relation to OU are banned, have unreleased traits, or are themselves unreleased at this time.

Basically, the article simply lists some Pokemon that benefit greatly from their Hidden Ability, even though there's still no legit way of getting one.

For future reference, try using serebii's list and bulbapedia's list of Pokemon with released Hidden Abilities.

[EDIT]

Back to the MM discussion: exactly, we don't have any solid information for gen 6 yet, so I'm mainly going with what we already know for now from previous generations. What we know for certain is that the geographical info was never stored, and it would be very inaccurate anyway, since you can easily change the location on your 3DS to whatever you like. For example, I live in Romania, but my 3DS is still set to UK because I never bothered changing it and never will either.

So yeah, the MM has been so far based on the language of the game, and assuming that hasn't changed, it still is. In this case then, the big question is: is it based on (a) the original language of the game, or (b) the one you chose when you start your game? If it's (b) then the language tags are reliable to tell foreign Pokemon and there's no need to worry; if it's (a), then that would make the Masuda Method a hot mess and you can never know for sure if that SPA Pokemon is indeed foreign and viable for the MM or it just comes from a guy with an English game who happens to like Spanish.

[EDIT 2]

Just found an article on the Pokemon data structure for X/Y games. Apparently, it has changed quite a bit, and now includes a Country ID, Region ID, 3DS region ID and OT language. So it seems like anything is possible at this point. Link: https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_X/Y_3DS_Structure

 

[Keiran]

were Deoxys, Genesect, Keldeo and Meloetta were available in Dream World? Or is this a mistake on the website's part or was it a plan that never went through? I ask because I can't find any videos on youtube showing the capture of any of these so I was just wondering if it is accurate or not. thanks! https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue19/dreamworld

What website? Dream World was/is a metagame category created at Smogon. Anyways, those Pokemon were never released through the Dream World, but through their own events.

 

[Howmander]

What website? Dream World was/is a metagame category created at Smogon. Anyways, those Pokemon were never released through the Dream World, but through their own events.

what do you mean what website? The one I posted. Anyway, so the dreamworld that smogon is listing (that I put in my original post) is different than the dream world that appears in the pokemon game/PGL?

 

[Banned]

So yeah, the MM has been so far based on the language of the game, and assuming that hasn't changed, it still is. In this case then, the big question is: is it based on (a) the original language of the game, or (b) the one you chose when you start your game? If it's (b) then the language tags are reliable to tell foreign Pokemon and there's no need to worry; if it's (a), then that would make the Masuda Method a hot mess and you can never know for sure if that SPA Pokemon is indeed foreign and viable for the MM or it just comes from a guy with an English game who happens to like Spanish.

Yeah, this is exactly what I meant in the first place when I was going on about geographical regions. Previously the language of the game has corresponded directly to the region in which it was bought. So actually when it says "original language" for previous games, that could just as easily be replaced with "original region". If you look at the games you can see that the serial numbers are different depending on the region in which they were bought. My British games have serial numbers ending in EUR, my Japanese ones end in JPN, my German ones end in NOE and my American ones end in USA (of course EUR and USA would be grouped together as one "region" if this method is used). This is still present in the Gen VI games. So it could have depended on this all along, and there was previously no way of telling the difference.

EDIT: In fact, now that I read your previous post again, the name "home location" suddenly makes a lot of sense.

 

[Keiran]

what do you mean what website? The one I posted. Anyway, so the dreamworld that smogon is listing (that I put in my original post) is different than the dream world that appears in the pokemon game/PGL?

Yes. Dream World (the metagame) just allowed usage of unreleased things on an unofficial battle simulator. Its entirely different.

 

[Miau]

Yeah, this is exactly what I meant in the first place when I was going on about geographical regions. Previously the language of the game has corresponded directly to the region in which it was bought. So actually when it says "original language" for previous games, that could just as easily be replaced with "original region". If you look at the games you can see that the serial numbers are different depending on the region in which they were bought. My British games have serial numbers ending in EUR, my Japanese ones end in JPN, my German ones end in NOE and my American ones end in USA (of course EUR and USA would be grouped together as one "region" if this method is used). This is still present in the Gen VI games. So it could have depended on this all along, and there was previously no way of telling the difference.

EDIT: In fact, now that I read your previous post again, the name "home location" suddenly makes a lot of sense.

Actually, "home location" makes me think of the device's location, not the game's original language/location. However, since the consoles are region-locked, then yeah, you are right, the names suddenly makes sense, it just slipped my mind. And now with the fact that we can change languages, it can be seen as the original language of the game, not the one we chose.

Anyway, we can speculate on this until tomorrow morning, without a clue about the coding in gen 6, we can't know for sure. Like I mentioned above, they are almost there with decoding the Pokemon data structure, and it seems that it does hold info about both language and geographical location. My assumption however -- just my personal hunch, nothing more, is that the MM is still looking at language, while the geographical info is used for Vivillion patterns. Otherwise, honestly, the language tags are just misleading; why give us the MM if we can't even be sure if we're doing it right?

 

[Banned]

My assumption however -- just my personal hunch, nothing more, is that the MM is still looking at language, while the geographical info is used for Vivillion patterns. Otherwise, honestly, the language tags are just misleading; why give us the MM if we can't even be sure if we're doing it right?

Yeah, that's my biggest issue with it. But being able to use the Masuda Method without interacting with any other games is messed up too. Oh well, I'll get over it :P

 

[Howmander]

Can Deoxys learn Electro Ball? I got a Deoxys that only has 31IV in Speed so I was wanting to make it Speed form and give it a move set based around speed and Electro Ball seemed like the perfect fit. If it can't learn it, what are moves that are dependant on things other than the user's Sp Att or Att (both of which are bad)? All I can find are Electro Ball, Grass Knot and Gyro Ball (which I won't be using the last one on a speed Deoxys) any other suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Nah]

Can Deoxys learn Electro Ball? I got a Deoxys that only has 31IV in Speed so I was wanting to make it Speed form and give it a move set based around speed and Electro Ball seemed like the perfect fit. If it can't learn it, what are moves that are dependant on things other than the user's Sp Att or Att (both of which are bad)? All I can find are Electro Ball, Grass Knot and Gyro Ball (which I won't be using the last one on a speed Deoxys) any other suggestions? Thanks!

Dexoys can't learn Electro Ball.

The only other moves I can think of are Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Counter and Mirror Coat...all which are things that Deoxys either can't learn or would be terrible on it. There's also Night Shade and Low Kick.

Deoxys's full movepool (for all forms) is here: https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/386.shtml

 

[Howmander]

Okay, so I found that Deoxys can learn Spikes AND Stealth Rock (it came with Stealth Rock, which is why I started looking up the moves, and I can relearn Spikes by going to the move relearner in Defense form apparently), so can you stack those together and on top of each other? (I wish it could learn toxic spikes instead of just spikes) And if so, would I be better off changing it to a Defense form and putting both those moves in that form? or will they be good moves on the speed form?

 

[Hiatus]

Yes, you could definitely do that. :) If you're planning to use it as lead, then I'd recommend its Speed form (make sure to make it hold Focus Sash, by the way). If not, then go with Defense.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Okay, so I found that Deoxys can learn Spikes AND Stealth Rock (it came with Stealth Rock, which is why I started looking up the moves, and I can relearn Spikes by going to the move relearner in Defense form apparently), so can you stack those together and on top of each other? (I wish it could learn toxic spikes instead of just spikes) And if so, would I be better off changing it to a Defense form and putting both those moves in that form? or will they be good moves on the speed form?

Yes, Stealth Rock and Spikes can stack with each other.

Deoxys' Defense and Speed forms can utilize both hazards on the same move sets effectively; however, both play differently. Deoxys-Defense mainly attempts to stick around so that it can set up hazards throughout the match, while Deoxys-Speed can afford to sacrifice itself by stacking its hazards as soon as possible in the lead slot:

Deoxys-Defense (this set relies on Deoxys-D's bulk to get its hazards up without relying on Focus Sash):
-Spikes
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Thunder Wave/Magic Coat
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Mental Herb/Red Card

or
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Taunt
-Recover
-Seismic Toss/Night Shade (the former is a move tutor from FireRed/LeafGreen)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/12 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Rocky Helmet

Deoxys-Speed:
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Taunt
-Fire Punch/Superpower/Magic Coat
Nature: Jolly/Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe (Jolly) or 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe (Timid)
Item: Focus Sash

 

[Howmander]

Okay so that is all fantastically informative! Thank you guys so much! (I think I'm going to try and get more than one Deoxys) So this now reminds me about the Forretress I was planning on. Since (as far as I know) it's the only one that can learn Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock all together, so if I did that, would it last long enough to be able to set all that up? I know it's Def is great, but it's Sp Def is horrid. And if not, is there anything else that can learn all those moves? (Other than Smeargle which DEFINITELY wouldn't last to set up all 3)

So this probably means no more GTS or online trading with older pokemon games, huh?

https://www.nintendo.com.au/termination-of-nintendo-wi-fi-connection

So does this mean that if you have black2/White2 or prior, you only have until May 20 to use Poketransfer to get your pokemon moved up to X or Y and then you're cut off completely and can never do it anymore?

 

[Christopher]

the Poketransfer doesn't require internet as it's just 1 DS communicating with an other. As for the Poketransporter that's handled by the 3DS and won't be effected.

 

[Banned]

Okay so that is all fantastically informative! Thank you guys so much! (I think I'm going to try and get more than one Deoxys) So this now reminds me about the Forretress I was planning on. Since (as far as I know) it's the only one that can learn Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock all together, so if I did that, would it last long enough to be able to set all that up? I know it's Def is great, but it's Sp Def is horrid. And if not, is there anything else that can learn all those moves? (Other than Smeargle which DEFINITELY wouldn't last to set up all 3)

I don't think any Pokemon would last long enough to be able to set up all three (not without a LOT of luck). You're best off scrapping one of them for something more worthwhile. And I think Forretress and Smeargle are the only ones that can even learn all three.

 

[Drayton]

If I buy Pokemon X / Y from Eshop, where will the game be saved?
Also can keep a backup, so I don't need to buy it again
and why the game size it's HUGE to be downloaded to the 3DS?

 

[Xerneas_X]

If I buy Pokemon X / Y from Eshop, where will the game be saved?
Also can keep a backup, so I don't need to buy it again
and why the game size it's HUGE to be downloaded to the 3DS?

The game is saved to the SD Card. and you don't need to keep a back up because you can redownload past purchases from the eShop at anytime, even after you've deleted it from your 3DS/SD Card. It follows your Account.