Are fashion shows giving off bad messages to younger females?

[Pendraflare]

This was something I wanted to post a topic on after seeing an article following the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, which aired on CBS last Tuesday. Now, I didn't watch the show, because one, I was busy making notes for my finals, and two, the TV in my dorm building was static-y so I didn't really have a good opportunity to. But I did see an article on Aol.com that, aside from discussing the musical performances present that night, briefly mentioned how (just like every other year) there were viewers who "jokingly admitted sobbing into junk food" over the images of the women present.

Now, it feels a bit weird that this topic is being made by a guy, let alone one who didn't even watch the show, but this is something I felt was worthy of discussion because what I think those girls that tweeted things like that feel is that they feel they're inferior because they're not as "pretty" as the people they're seeing on their screen. There are many people who wonder why there are younger girls who always think they're ugly, and an event like this I think kinda tells me why.

Would you say that things like the fashion shows are influencing girls negatively in considering themselves ashamed of their image? Discuss.

 

[Her]

the fashion industry makes billions of dollars from perpetuating to all kinds of women that this look, this size, this skintone is the form you should aspire to, for that is beauty. if you do not fit this rigid form, then you are not beautiful, please change that through our various products. this is pretty basic knowledge.

 

[Oryx]

Their job is to make those women feel inferior.

 

[Kanzler]

All businesses survive by the demand of their consumers. Sometimes they take measures to generate more demand where it would otherwise not exist. It's similar to advertising to children, for example.

I don't think the fashion industry is the end of the story, though. It seems a bit of a jump to go from "don't look like these models" to "I'm ugly". I think it begs a broader question about why people become insecure in general. How is a person's insecurity for things affected by society and how has that changed over time (are we more insecure today than we have been ten years ago)?

I think part of it has to do with the competitiveness in society and the worshipping of "the best" - second place has no value. It seems that if you're not among the top, then you're nobody. It's not that you have less value, it's that you have no value if you're not recognized as being elite in whatever aspect. And moreover, it's not that you have less value in that certain aspect, it's that you have no value as a human being. I think this kind of thinking is incredibly flawed and poisons life in all aspects, not just body image. If you don't have this kind of job, you're nobody. If you don't have a relationship, you're nobody. So on and so forth.

Then again, I don't want to generalize on society's behalf because not all people have that kind of viewpoint and I think it's rather cruel to assume that some people have such a damning point of view when they don't. I also don't want to make the claim that "most people" have such beliefs because 1) I don't know, 2) I'll never know, and 3) why should I have such a self-defeating attitude influence the way I treat other people?

 

[Kyoe]

Female based fashion shows, and to a lesser extent, male based fashion shows are largely centred on preying on those with low self esteem. That doesn't mean that they are wholey evil per say, but they can be damaging to young minds, in particular.

Let's not forget that wonderful Oscar Wilde quote, though;
"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months."

 

[Kanzler]

Female based fashion shows, and to a lesser extent, male based fashion shows are largely centred on preying on those with low self esteem. That doesn't mean that they are wholey evil per say, but they can be damaging to young minds, in particular.

Let's not forget that wonderful Oscar Wilde quote, though;
"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months."

That's an excellent quote!

I think it really calls on us to think about what beauty really is. How can beauty be transient if ideals aren't transient?

 

[twocows]

For context's sake: I consider myself an MRA and someone generally opposed to a lot of what's said in the name of modern feminism.

And yes, absolutely. The whole fashion industry is revolting to me. I think that it promotes bad ideas and demonizes good values. While working to improve yourself, even if it's just your appearance, is generally something to be praised, they're going too far and deifying the idea of beauty. They've gone past the point of self-improvement and gone into the realm of obsession, something that's only reinforced by their peers and the industry they work in. What's more, they're actively discouraged from being decent people: the desire to improve one's self in other ways, such as learning or doing good works, things like these are detrimental to their ability to do well.

The kind of attitude that industry and community promotes is something to be frowned upon. It encourages girls to be shallow, self-centered ****s, obsessed with looks, money, and sex. It teaches that self-improvement and self-betterment are bad things and that those who deserve the most respect and praise are those who look the best. Honestly, I think it's sick, and I think the people who buy into it and keep it running are just as sick, if not more so. I don't think I could name many things that have dumbed down as many people as this crap.

I do think it's important to restate that I don't think it's bad to try to better your appearance, far from it. I actually wish more people had the desire to improve themselves in some way. The idea that some modern feminists espouse that all people are equally beautiful is ridiculous. What I do think is that obsessing over this one single thing to the detriment of your own humanity is the problem.

 

[Kyoe]

That's an excellent quote!

I think it really calls on us to think about what beauty really is. How can beauty be transient if ideals aren't transient?

I know right? Oscar Wilde is one of my favorite authors.
It's impressive, to me at least, that it not only has a simple and clear meaning, but some philosophical pertinence as well. Mr. Wilde had a skill for that sort of thing.

But I digress!
It seems like you're talking about elitism there. While I do agree that in some cases it can very much pervade society, I prefer to keep a more positive viewpoint. General opinion, after all, is formed from individual perspective.
Humans by nature tend to focus on the negative. Which is a major aspect that effects the reaction that viewers to this sort of program have. We could just feel happy for the models for having such a high level of beauty, be it as reliant as it is by relative situations and modern eyes. However, instead we get the conclusion from most people that they themselves are ugly. To be honest it could be said that the venomous component of this equation is the viewers, but that arguably delves into blaming the victim, and then things start to get messy and grey.

My personal opinion is that we can't honestly help these people outright. If we stop programs like this, then there will just be something else that they'll become set on. The best we can do is to be confident in ourselves, and be a good example.

 

[Her]

My personal opinion is that we can't honestly help these people outright. If we stop programs like this, then there will just be something else that they'll become set on. The best we can do is to be confident in ourselves, and be a good example.

i somewhat agree with this but i need to flesh out my thoughts

short of the lofty thought of outright dismantling capitalism, there's not much we as individuals can do to fight against the power of the beauty industry. it's just too powerful and entrenched in our psyche regardless of our personal standards/opinions of it. although promoting plus-size models, models of colour, changing business practices etc is needed given that capitalism is not going to die anytime soon, it doesn't really do much to change the scheme of things.
what's that microsoft word paperclip meme? 'it looks like there is no ethical consumption under late capitalism'
the industry will simply change its tactics, like it is doing now, to ride the relatively weak wave of body positivity and profit off that while simultaneously continuing its usual practices.
so, in short, i agree with the futility of going after the industry itself.

while being confident in ourselves is a good thing, we have to make sure we promote and look after all who are targeted by the beauty industry. so, basically everyone. but more importantly, those that targeted even further than the average consumer.
little black girls that get told that the lighter your skin is, the prettier you are.
trans women that are pressured to look as feminine as possible.
fat women that can't find beautiful clothing in their own size.
while many other aspects of society factor into those examples, the impact of the beauty industry is one of the few aspects that can be removed from an individual through the confidence and support of others. there is no way to make the beauty industry ethical, but we can be ethical to those affected by it.

 

[Kanzler]

I don't believe it's by nature, I think there's a strong societal explanation for it. I don't know why, but I get the feeling that people in other parts of the world just don't care so much about appearances than us.

Something that occurs to me as a paradox is why we focus so much about society's expectations in Western society. Compared to Eastern societies, you don't actually "have to" be anything, the social roles aren't so deeply carved in stone. That's the thing about Western societies, we're actually a lot freer from ingrained social roles but we end up being obsessed over them for some reason.

I think this obsession for the negative is stronger in some societies than others.

 

[Pendraflare]

Now, I don't explicitly think that these fashion ladies want to make the low self-esteem ones feel bad about themselves, but I do feel that it does sort of give the wrong message. The thing is that when the "prettier" ladies express themselves, the other girls feel that they'll never be the people they're presented with. Not only that, but when they show off their image it can sometimes be seen as arrogance. There's nothing actually wrong with being proud of your image, but shamelessly showing it off doesn't really prove that much (except to the male gazers).

I may think that some of the girls that don't like their image should be able to relate to others on that spectrum.

 

[«Chuckles»]

I'm not a women and I'm no zyzz but I don't see a problem with it, to each their own. If someone likes looking like skeletor and they know it pays the bills what's wrong with that.
I know skinny girls who are insecure because of the "real women have curves" stuff and honestly if you feel insecure about yourself because of trivial things like that then you should probably have a different outlook on life.

 

[Kyoe]

I don't believe it's by nature, I think there's a strong societal explanation for it. I don't know why, but I get the feeling that people in other parts of the world just don't care so much about appearances than us.

Did you know that in South America they used to disform their heads? Sometimes a board would be strapped to a child's head to artificially elongate it. And in parts of Africa they practice stretching of the earlobes and lips.
In Japan, in modern times even, paler skin is coveted. And up until very recently it was a legal and not unheard of practice in China to bind a young women's feet; preventing them from growing.

Fascinations with appearances and changing them have been common throughout the whole world, for a very long time. I understand and don't necessarily disagree with the idea that western cultures often try harder to fit in, and conform to expectations and certain fads. But in my own opinion that's stemming from deeper issues that aren't really on topic, here.

I'm not trying to argue a point, just tell you something you may not know! :D

 

[Oryx]

Now, I don't explicitly think that these fashion ladies want to make the low self-esteem ones feel bad about themselves, but I do feel that it does sort of give the wrong message. The thing is that when the "prettier" ladies express themselves, the other girls feel that they'll never be the people they're presented with. Not only that, but when they show off their image it can sometimes be seen as arrogance. There's nothing actually wrong with being proud of your image, but shamelessly showing it off doesn't really prove that much (except to the male gazers).

I may think that some of the girls that don't like their image should be able to relate to others on that spectrum.

I don't think we do ourselves any favors when we start going into it thinking that the fashion industry as a whole and the women who model for it are on the same side, because they're really not. Models are just as susceptible, if not more so, to the beauty standards thrust on women by society. They're not exempt just because they're part of the system, because to an extent we all are. Whenever I put on a skirt or choose a tight-fitting shirt over a baggy one I'm buying into the system. Whenever you look at a woman who doesn't shave her legs and think "wow, I am really not attracted to that", you're buying into the system. It's not that you or I are intentionally trying to do so, but everyone does to some extent and we can't judge people who do really.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I don't think fashion shows are really about the models. The point is to showcase the clothing (often, impractical clothing) as a form of art. So, what they need and use are essentially walking coat hangers.

The media around that though is what perpetuates that look as beautiful, even though it's unrealistic.

For retail though, when they show off their new lines for the season, I think those models should be more normal and realistic as that's who will be buying

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

I guess so but I honestly don't really care. I mean I guess the way I look at it is that if you're looking at yourself as an inferior beauty queen then you're forgetting your other possibilities. I think I'm a pretty neutral/ugly/whatever woman but I don't really think that makes me somehow more inferior of a human being. I guess it's how you look at it.

I only have a problem when the models are clearly unhealthily underweight or if seriously photoshopped because then you're pushing the lines. People can't really healthily obtain those possibilities so it's kind of a disservice to expect that in people. I don't think most fashion models, especially those on runways, have this exact problem though.

Also I'd love to point out as someone who's pretty skinny that there are a ton of options for people who are a bit on the larger side. Honestly I'm a bit jealous since there are quite a few cute options for those individuals, but alas.

I'm not a women and I'm no zyzz but I don't see a problem with it, to each their own. If someone likes looking like skeletor and they know it pays the bills what's wrong with that.

Well that's really unhealthy and you're pretty much setting up yourself for something pretty bad. I used to be seriously underweight and let me tell you it's no cakewalk, add that onto the stress of being a model is setting up them for some serious medical consequences down the line if they really are that skinny.

 

[Pendraflare]

I don't think we do ourselves any favors when we start going into it thinking that the fashion industry as a whole and the women who model for it are on the same side, because they're really not. Models are just as susceptible, if not more so, to the beauty standards thrust on women by society. They're not exempt just because they're part of the system, because to an extent we all are. Whenever I put on a skirt or choose a tight-fitting shirt over a baggy one I'm buying into the system. Whenever you look at a woman who doesn't shave her legs and think "wow, I am really not attracted to that", you're buying into the system. It's not that you or I are intentionally trying to do so, but everyone does to some extent and we can't judge people who do really.

So we're buying into the system regardless of what we wear or how we judge others based on what they wear? I guess that's what fashion can be seen as, what one person might find attractive another might not. But the models that are part of the fashion industry, if they weren't proud of their image, they probably wouldn't be part of things like this. They want to be able to set a good image and basis for younger audiences, but with their over-the-top outfits (and i'll get to that in a bit), sometimes it's just a bit much for those watching.

I don't think fashion shows are really about the models. The point is to showcase the clothing (often, impractical clothing) as a form of art. So, what they need and use are essentially walking coat hangers.

The media around that though is what perpetuates that look as beautiful, even though it's unrealistic.

For retail though, when they show off their new lines for the season, I think those models should be more normal and realistic as that's who will be buying

Impractical clothing is kinda right there - some of the clothing that these ladies wear are definitely not things seen every day, i'll give them that. But still, those that see it as beautiful, some of them don't, and younger ladies might get jealous of those outfits.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Impractical clothing is kinda right there - some of the clothing that these ladies wear are definitely not things seen every day, i'll give them that. But still, those that see it as beautiful, some of them don't, and younger ladies might get jealous of those outfits.

Sure, but would they even be able to afford those outfits 90% of the time if they could fit into them? Like I stated earlier I'm honestly kind of jealous of the plus size options available too *shrug*

I think it's less of an issue of the clothes themselves most of the time and more of an issue with body image, and unfortunately nothing is going to fix that; even if you're told that you're wonderful for being overweight that isn't going to necessarily fix everyone's insecurity with being overweight. That's just my two cents though.

 

[kuzronk]

They are but so are most feminine targeted stuff like barbies/TV shows.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Empty physical displays by women make me feel kind of hollow inside. To me, a woman is so much more than a body and I just cringe at those shallow sorts of things... fashion shows, Miss America contests... ugh. A female can be so much more fun and lovable than that. I wish there wasn't this sort of pressure for **** like this - it's not fair to anyone.

There isn't a question in my mind these send the wrong messages to the more impressionable of girls in society. Sure, a more intelligent human of either gender knows better than to succumb to these sorts of trivialities (dumber men falling into the male disease, as a reciprocal), but then again it seems to me a larger thing to do with social acceptance comes into play. Physical attractiveness is no stranger's business in my mind. It's your lover's, and his or hers alone.