"Values dissonance" doesn't offer an explanation on why it's right or wrong though. I'm sure that no one in this thread likes seeing all these innocent people die.
I know I don't. I'd rather see armed people fighting back instead of unarmed people trying to be human shields.
And personally, as an American, I don't live every day fearing that I'm going to be shot and killed by some gangster or America's Next Top Shooter. Though I suppose part of that has to do with the fact that I live in a little town where nobody does anything instead of say Newark or Detroit or whatever cities are considered dangerous these days, and that I don't care a whole if I do get shot.
Most of the US gun homicides are confined to large cities that are huge gun control areas. There was something showing the breakdown. It also mentioned that if you aren't involved in or involved with someone who is involved in the drug trade or gang lifestyle, you really have nothing to fear about getting shot. Odds are greater for lightning strikes.
I would rather that we not tell people to stop talking and go away.
Be nice if it was an actual debate.
Yes, that might be true. But hey, that's why I'm concerned really. No one needs to die needlessly after all. And since nothing lasts forever, the day when people of cities such as Newark can stop living in fear might come after all. All that's needed is patience.
People die needlessly of many other things. Plan to ban alcohol, cars, the medical field? And you are right that nothing lasts forever. That includes peaceful times. Can you defend yourself and your family if society is collapsing around you?
Absolutery agree with you. That's how they win everytime really. They ramble on and on in hopes that the ones opposing their ideology gives up and quit. And rest assured, even if I was born and raised in USA, I would never touch a gun regardless. Because that goes against my very nature.
But you are rambling? I'm still waiting and hoping you'll defend your comments. You should actually learn more about firearms. And one of the ways you learn is by going to a gun class or gun range and using a gun.
Honestly? I still think it's a complicated problem with no immediate answer. I mean sure we could say "haha let's ban guns" but then I'm certain there are more than enough gun owners who aren't thinking about shooting up a Madden tournament that would feel their right to bear arms (as well as right to self-defense) are immediately thrown out the window. And the people who are out here snapping with guns would probably find a way to get their hands on one anyway. Not really interested in punishing a (presumably) legal majority for that. That said these ARE lives we're talking about...
Well, Bronze has stated he'd be willing to kill or imprison gun owners in the hope of saving lives.
I think having more guidelines on who gets a gun may be a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure. Other people in the thread mentioned discouraging gun crimes in the first place, which while a good idea that I agree with, how would that work in practice?
For the basic gun crimes, IE not mass shootings, extra jail time. Jail time for people that commit straw purchases for the felon friends or family.
A lot of mass shooters end up killing themselves anyway or definitely don't care about getting a death penalty if they were planning to shoot up -insert establishment here- anyway. That sort of thing would really only be effective on an individual level, which is a nice small step, but doesn't really stop bar and school shootings.
Short of turning every establishment into a secured building, I'd go for allowing more citizens to carry concealed. There were and have been people who normally carry concealed not carrying because of laws or rules and end up regretting that.
Of course, I'm speaking hypothetically, so feel free to tell me "You're wrong and you're stupid" at any point.
You aren't wrong and contributing isn't stupid.
Hakumen: Well, the obvious dilemma is that WHY guns are a 'right' over in USA when practically everywhere else it's not. Do we Europeans need guns for example? Well, outside of very specific situations, the answer's obviously no. And i'm sure it would do USA good in the long term to adopt that mindset too.
That's not a dilemma. The Founders of the US recognize that governments can become corrupt tyrannies and an armed populace can prevent that from happening.
Problem with America is that you have a lot more places that deal with crippling poverty and more than enough people willing to break in someone's house or something of the sort under the pretense of "Doing what I gotta do".
There are places in the EU that are just as bad or worse. Multiple break ins per year. Last forum I debated this topic in, I shared links to surveys and whatnot that showed that people were less scared to walk around at night in the US that in the UK.
Granted, since I'm from a very volatile environment (Thanks Detroit this is your fault), my outlook on needing guns is different because of the odds that someone will try to mug you, or break into your house, or hold you up, or any number of things that I can think of. You have places where your chances of being a target of a crime is like 1 out of 200 people or maybe less, and considering the population of cities, that's pretty damn high. So you'll have sides of the fence where you got people who get their hands on guns regardless of method to go commit crimes or you have people owning guns because crime rates lean you in the direction of owning one since you could step outside for a store run and be threatened for no reason other than "I was outside at the wrong time" and that's just how it is. Sounds crazy but it's very true.
There are any number of scenarios where guns are necessary for protection. Hurricane Katrina, King Riots, random attacks for no freaking reason.
I COULD talk on why guns are a right and why they should/shouldn't be but I'm not really here to talk about that. I think that's another discussion for another time.
Well the thread is US Gun Control and it might help Bronze to understand it.