OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

Yeah, I have. Not too keen on a big, epic Mega Evolution story being shoehorned into Gen 1. We got enough of that in XY and ORAS, IMO. I'd rather see Mega Evolution introduced in a more low-key way, similar to how Origins did it.

(And, speaking of Origins, I'd also like to see the more fleshed-out Marowak plot carry over to the new remakes.)


It's like a Star Trek Rule for Nintendo handhelds... Every other one is a flop. GB/C = good, GBA = bad, DS = good, 3DS = bad.

The consoles are a little iffier, as the N64 was actually a flop. Not that the GameCube did any better. Of course, the Wii U's the biggest bomb of them all.

Ever heard of Gligar13Vids? He's got quite a reputation on youtube.

Well, let's hope that new Gen 1 remakes can do the same with my faves. (Particularly, the ones who never reappeared in HGSS.) It's the least GF could do for older fans like me...

Well, I know that *I* want to see more remakes and sequels to older games. Each new region and new set of characters interests me less than the last, and Kalos really took the cake for being boring, IMO. The story was blah, the evil team was beyond generic, and most of the characters had the personalities of cardboard. I'd much rather see my old favorites again in glorious 3D (like you got with ORAS).

Not necessarily. There's a lot of people outside of fansites like this who would jump all over a new Gen 1 remake. Plus, a lot of the people who "hate Kanto" would change their minds in a heartbeat once they got a taste of scenery and gameplay from the new remakes (as many Hoenn haters did with ORAS).


None of those might end up happening if ORAS outselll XY. That would be a pretty clear indication that people aren't interested in Kalos or brand new regions, in general.

I still don't think we'll see Gen 4 remakes until after the 3DS' successor comes out, although you never know.

It'll be interesting to see how Gen 7 is handled if ORAS end up outselling XY. As I said, it would be the first time ever that a remake has outsold the main paired games, and since GF and Nintendo care about making money, they'd, no doubt, take note of that.

A Kalos Third Version or prequel/sequel would probably be dead on arrival, and it's possible that they would either go straight to another set of remakes (most likely of these games) or design Gen 7's main pair to be another direct sequel, ala. Gen 2. It's obvious that the fandom wants to see more of the older regions, older characters, and older Pokémon.

Well, with the exception of RB's remakes, although they were technically a Red/Green pair. We'll see how ORAS does.

On that note, so far it seems like the remakes are selling inverse to how the originals sold. While Red and Blue (31.37 million) sold more than Gold and Silver (23.10 million), FireRed and LeafGreen (11.82 million) sold less than HeartGold and SoulSilver (12.67 million). If the trend continues, OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire should sell in the 13 million range, at least, tying with X and Y (13.29 million).

Of course, on the other hand, FRLG had a short-lived handheld holding them back, as well as a lower interest in the franchise, overall, at the time. (Fewer people were nostalgic for the games in 2004 than they would be by the end of the decade.) They probably would have sold much more had they been released for the DS in 2008 or 2009, instead.

ORAS also have a low-selling handheld working against them (although, the games, themselves, could help change this), but unlike FRLG, they have increased nostalgia and a greater interest in the franchise working in their favor.

(If ORAS end up beating XY in sales, that might convince GF to give Gen 1 another go sooner than later.)

I can agree with that. I'm not the biggest fan of the games, but I do feel that RS take an unfair amount of heat for the "death of the fad." (It was the blah Johto anime that really killed it, IMO.) The circumstances of both the franchise at the time and the GBA's short lifespan were mostly an unlucky coincidence.


Well, I can tell you that Crystal probably didn't do well--It was the worst-selling main series game ever, selling only about a fourth (6.39 million) of what Gold and Silver sold (23.10 million), when it's standard for Third Versions to do slightly less than half of the paired games.

(For a comparison, Yellow sold 14.64 million--the only Third Version to date to sell 10 or more million--to Red and Blue's 31.37 million, Emerald sold 6.41 million to Ruby and Sapphire's 15.85 million, and Platinum sold 7.59 million to Diamond and Pearl's 18.12 million. Compared to these, Crystal flopped hard.)


Nah, you're not a dork. If you're one, then I'm one, too. :)

RSE have certainly been Vindicated by History, as TV Tropes put it:


Many of the things that people hated RSE for (like no compatibility and removal of features from Gen 2) are no longer an issue (including with the games' own remakes), and the games, themselves, have become old enough to be nostalgic. Maybe, DPP will get their turn years down the road...


Tell me about it. :rolleyes2: It's just a cold, hard fact that Gen 1 is now the only Gen that can't be played on the newest handheld, so it simply wouldn't be fair or practical to remake one that can (Gen 4) before it. DP may be old and quickly becoming outdated, but they're still younger and far less outdated than FRLG. (And, there's always Platinum, which fixed most of DP's problems.)


Well, the GBC, itself, would've never even existed if it weren't for the runaway success of Red and Green/Blue. Believe it or not, the Game Boy was considered a dying handheld by the latter half of the 1990s, and the success of the Pokémon games single-handedly turned GB sales around, spurning Nintendo to release a newer, more upgraded version of the GB, aka. the GBC. (And, later, build backwards compatibility into the GB/C's successor, the GBA.)

Well, the GBA was a much shorter-lived handheld than either the GB/C or DS, so it sold less than either. (But, still more than the 3DS, the lowest-selling of the four.)

Plus, despite the hype over ORAS, I still think GF views Gen 3 as kind of an awkward Dork Age. The fad had ended, sales slumped (RS were the worst-selling paired games before XY), and a backlash had set in against the franchise. (A part of me is still surprised that there was such a demand for Gen 3 remakes.)


It says a lot about how low the GBA's and 3DS's sales were that RS and XY could be both the highest-selling games for their respective handhelds and the two worst-selling main paired games, at the same time. It would be funny if ORAS ended up outselling XY, as it would be the first time a remake has done that to the main pair (and ironically, the remakes of the worst-selling main pair before XY).

Yeah, I think you do, LOL.

The least-connected region is undoubtedly Unova, IMO. Just think of the original Unova Dex and how it didn't include any Pokémon from previous Gens, and how BW, in general, had a very "reboot" feel to them. B2W2 brought back more connections to the previous games (ie. expanded Dex, PWT), but most of that was because of the outcry over BW being so disconnected.

Searching around, I came across an article that could now come across as Harsher in Hindsight:



That, of course, turned out to be a lie.

HGSS Kanto actually didn't look a whole lot like FRLG Kanto at all. Many of the maps were altered significantly from FRLG (such as Route 1), and Cerulean Cave was completely different (being based on Yellow's layout instead of FRLG's, which was based on Green's.) Sure, a lot of that can be chalked up to the games being on completely different handhelds with completely different graphics (unlike the originals, a problem in and of itself, IMO), but still... The connection just wasn't there as much as it was with the originals.

HGSS were good remakes (of GSC), but they were poor sequels (to FRLG). They didn't have the same connection with FRLG that GSC had with RBY. Unlike the originals, the remakes couldn't even trade with each other, and overall, FRLG feel more linked with the Hoenn games and HGSS with the Sinnoh games, which just doesn't feel right, IMO.

(And, this, right here, might explain why GF stopped making Generations that were direct sequels to earlier Generations. Unless the games come out directly after one another (like RBY/GSC and BW/B2W2), they can't keep the continuity straight. Seeing as we've only gotten one Generation in the past 15 years that didn't include any remakes, the days of Generations only including a single set of games seem to be over.)

True, but you would expect "modern" remakes to be a little more complete than that. The things that were missing from GSC and RSE were implemented into HGSS and ORAS, so why couldn't it be the same for RBY and FRLG?


Interesting observation, there.


Which probably isn't a coincidence. :rolleyes2: Even in the first two Gens, GF had it in for Poison by making it Team Rocket's favorite type and making most of the Legendaries Psychic type (ie. Poison's biggest weakness).

There's a possible Gen 1 remake hint in XY's music--The Kalos Victory Road theme is a remix of an unused track from Yellow. Also, Santalune Forest looks nearly identical to Viridian Forest as it looked in the original games (as opposed to HGSS). And, the new Exp. Share that was introduced in XY works very similarly to the Exp. All that was last seen in Yellow. XY also gave Pikachu its anime cry for the first time since Yellow, and gave out the Kanto starters in a non-postgame context, also for the first time since Yellow.

...YELLOW CONFIRMED!!! {XD}

As for more remake hints found in past games...

RSE:

- Ruby and Sapphire were another Red and Blue pair.
- The first Gym Leader was Rock type and used a Geodude, and the third one was Electric type and used a Voltorb, just like we saw in Kanto.
- The Oceanic Museum music was a remix of the SS Anne music, and there was a model of the ship on the second floor.
- The Sootopolis City theme was a remix of the Name Entry theme from Pokémon Pinball (a Gen 1-era spin-off game).
- And speaking of Pinball... It got its own remake not long after Ruby & Sapphire came out.

DPP:

- Platinum was the third precious metal... after Gold and Silver.
- The sixth Gym Leader was Steel type and used a Steelix, and the seventh one was Ice type and used a Piloswine (Platinum), just like we saw in Johto.
- And speaking of Johto's Steel Gym Leader... She had a cameo in Sunyshore City.
- The Red Gyarados from the Lake of Rage was mentioned on TV at the beginning of the game.
- The Poké Ball design in the Poké Centers was colored Gold and Silver.
- The Pal Park Ball had a Gold/Silver/Crystal color scheme.
- A large number of Gen 1 and 2 Pokémon received new pre/evolutions this Gen, and it was the first to introduce new evolutions at all (Gen 3 only introduced a couple of babies) since Gen 2.
- Pokémon could be hacked to have location data that said "Johto."
- The SS Ticket and SecretPotion (which mentioned Cianwood City in its description) were unobtainable, unusable Key Items.
- Bebe, who created Sinnoh's storage system, gives you an Eevee just like Bill did in Gen 2.

XY:

- X and Y were, yet, another red and blue pair.
- Xerneas and Yveltal were the first Box Legendaries to not be Dragon type since... Groudon and Kyogre.
- The third Box Legend was a green serpentine Dragon... like Rayquaza.
- We saw the first female first Gym Leader since... Hoenn. (And, the Kalos GL's type is weak to the Hoenn GL's type. They both also happen to be the only female specialists of their respective types.)
- The seventh Gym Leader was Psychic type, just like we saw in Hoenn.
- The eighth gym leader was Ice type, similar to Hoenn's eighth gym being Ice-themed (despite being a Water gym).
- A large number of Mega Evolutions were given to Gen 1 and 3 Pokémon (including Blaziken, the only non-Kanto starter to get one), and Gen 3 was the last time both Generations had been seen.
- Unobtainable Mega Stones for the Eon Duo were discovered in the games' data.
- An NPC mentions that "The 40th wedding anniversary is the ruby anniversary, and the 45th is sapphire."


At least, the Dark type HAS Legendaries. Guess how many Poison has?

Just for a bit of nitpicking--There is NO such thing as a "Kanto Elite Four" or "Johto Elite Four." The two regions share the same E4 at the same Indigo Plateau, and any differences between Gens 1 and 2 can be chalked up to the passage of time, not the existence of a separate "Johto Elite Four." (If you were to go through Johto at the time of Gen 1, you would've still fought the same E4 of the original games at the end, not the one from GSC.) It's better to say "Gen 1 Elite Four" and "Gen 2 Elite Four" ("Indigo Elite Four" for both).

Anyways...
I was actually discussing this with a friend a little earlier, and he pointed this exact same thing out (and said it was the reason why he hated Hoenn's E4). For only being three Generations into franchise at the time, it looks very suspicious (and unoriginal) that they would pick four types that had already been used at Indigo for the Hoenn Elite Four, even going so far as to put the Dragon trainer at the top of the pile again. It was inevitable that Hoenn would repeat type specialists (all but one of the 17 types were already used as gyms in the previous Gen), but they could've done better with the Elite Four. (Especially, Glacia. Why would they put an Ice specialist in a region that only had two fully-evolved Ice types? One of which was a complete piece of crap?)

I say this looks suspicious, because I can't help but wonder if Hoenn's E4 was meant to be a hint towards FRLG--We had Ghost, Ice, and Dragon again, with the Dragon user in the 4th position. The Ice user also looked suspiciously like a younger version of Gen 1's Ghost user.

You can see similar remake hints in Sinnoh and Kalos. Sinnoh's Ground user, of course, resembled Agatha, and more importantly, its Psychic user strongly resembled Gen 2's Psychic user (the only other Psychic E4 member that existed at the time). As for Kalos, it had Water and Steel Elite Four Members, marking the first time since Gen 3 that either of those types had been seen in the League (albeit on Champions). The Water user also happened to be a frilly, effeminate-looking young man with a White/Blue color scheme (again).

And, speaking of Kalos, there could possibly be other remake hints in its E4. It's two female E4 members can be seen as parallels to the two female E4 members from the original games.

Lorelei and Malva are both bespectacled young redheads who happen to be the only E4 members seen outside of their rooms in their respective games, but while Lorelei uses Ice/Water types, has a cool personality, and fights against evil, Malva uses Fire types, has a hot personality, and fights for evil.

Agatha and Drasna are both older women in long skirts (and with long, grey hair if you go by Agatha's original design), but while Agatha is creepy, hateful, and competitive, Drasna is inviting, friendly, and humble. Ghost (Agatha) and Dragon (Drasna) can also be seen as parallel types--both weak against themselves, both resisted by only one type (Dark vs Steel), both made immune by one type (Normal vs Fairy), both had only a single 3-stage evolutionary line in Gen 1 (Gastly line vs Dratini line), both didn't receive STAB moves until Gen 2 (Shadow Ball vs Dragonbreath; both Gym Leader TMs given out by the 4th and 8th leaders, respectively), and both suffered from mismatched Pokémon before the P/S split (Ghost was a Physical type with mainly Special attackers; Dragon was a Special type with mainly Physical attackers). Drasna's pre-battle rematch dialog also refers to the region that introduced another E4 member that paralleled Agatha.
Lorelei would've been better, as Agatha's team was mostly Poison thanks to the lack of Ghost types in the original games (and the only ones that existed were all part-Poison themselves). Of course, there was going to be some GL/E4 overlap with Gen 2, as all of the types (sans Dark) were represented in the 16 gyms.

A little too "epic" for my tastes, but it could explain why we never saw Hoenn in the Alpha timeline.

(I wonder what Steven and Sidney's types would've been, though, if we had. Remember that Steel and Dark wouldn't be discovered until 3 years after the events of RSE in the Alpha Reality. I think Steven would've had Rock, just like Jasmine, but Sidney's more of a toss-up. Maybe, Poison?)


Well, I think that was the official story until ORAS came out. The first two Gens couldn't connect with any of the later games, so it was easy to assume that the remakes simply retconned them out of the timeline.

I don't think anyone ever considered 5-10 years ago that the first "modern" games would also eventually be remade, thus finding ourselves in the position of having originals that COULD connect with their remakes (even if indirectly). Plus, there were simply more games within the timeline that RSE started, so RSE getting kicked out of canon would've inevitably meant the same for FRLG, HGSS, DPP, BW, and B2W2 (which wouldn't have gone over too well with many people for obvious reasons).

The establishment of alternate timelines neatly solves this issue, while inadvertently also giving RBY/GSC a way to still "exist." It's a win-win.

One interesting fact is that unlike the previous remakes, it's possible to send Pokémon from the original RSE to ORAS (indirectly through Gens 4 and 5, of course). You get a special certificate when you do so. Knowing that, I wonder if this is why ORAS was the first remake to acknowledge the original games existing on a separate timeline?

Of course, it would be a similar story with FRLG/New!Yellow and DPP/New!DP, so those connections, at least, would probably be similarly acknowledged. In the case of New!Yellow, though, I'd like to see the timeline of the original games acknowledged, too (especially since it would technically be a remake of Yellow, not FRLG). Maybe, we could learn what caused the split between Alpha and Beta (Bill's Time Capsule, perhaps?) and why Alpha Reality Prime can't connect with the other timelines.

Way messier than many of us would like to see. It's best to just leave the Beta Reality in the past. (Like the Alpha Reality, it's now the domain of fanficcers and hackers. ;))


So, basically, you got the remake version you didn't own as an original? I think a lot of people did that.

They'd also have to leave out Fairies, too, and while there is also a vocal minority of people who hate them, there would be a massive outcry if either mechanic was deliberately excluded from a future game. Just look at how many people hated RSE for not having Day/Night or FRLG for not having any Gen 2 or later Pokémon until the postgame.

Which is exactly what I tell people who call for a "Kanto sequel" instead of a new Gen 1 remake. Granted, this "Kanto sequel" would technically be a sequel to HGSS (as HGSS are already sequels to FRLG), which are much newer games that can be played on a 3DS, but most fan ideas for a "Kanto Sequel" either minimize or completely ignore Gen 2 Kanto and draw more from the older, more outdated iteration of it, aka. FRLG.

Of course, with Gen 6 resetting the timeline, it's a moot point now, as neither FRLG or HGSS "exist" anymore in the current timeline (which is all GF cares about). You can't make a sequel for something that doesn't exist.


Interesting. Ironic that you mention Zelda, because that's what a lot of people have compared Gen 6's establishment of a "multiverse" to.

Obviously. I guess it's fitting that this was the Gen that RSE was remade.


The timeline IS a complete mess, I agree, and it's why I wish they had either A) sent XY all the way back to the beginning of the timeline and went full reboot, or B) made ORAS sequels set during the same time as B2W2/XY and preserved the Gen 3-5 timeline. Of course, the issue of the GBA being such an outdated handheld made the latter harder to do (How could RSE sequels work if you couldn't play the originals?), but the former was always an option.


Well, JP Blue didn't really fix the crappy sprites or glaring glitches (at least, not as much as Yellow did).

You're really good at analyzing Easter Eggs and hidden messages in the games, LOL. ;)