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Ambiguous forum titles

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curiousnathan

curiousnathan

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    • I'm not opposed to new changes, but I do think the feedback is warranted. For such a serious forum, I do think clarity is key. The other less "serious" forums so to speak can get away with having cute little names, but for CQ&F, it should stick with a less ambiguous name.
     
    gimmepie

    gimmepie

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    • Well, I personally don't see any issues here, but if people think there's a problem I'd like to propose a change to something like "The Help Desk" or "The Information Desk" it more or less translates what this forum is actually for but still fits the thematic names somewhat.
     
    Logan

    Logan

    [img]http://pldh.net/media/pokecons_action/403.gif
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    • Klippy said:
    We are trying something new and we will learn from it regardless of what happens. We can't always be stagnant and we are going to adapt from how these new ideas do, successful or not.

    Appreciate the feedback.
    Click to expand...
    That's cool, as long as the feedback is taken on board. There's nothing wrong with a bit of trial and error. After all, this is a feedback thread not a thread full of demands. :)
     
    Klippy

    Klippy

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    • hashtag said:
    That's cool, as long as the feedback is taken on board. There's nothing wrong with a bit of trial and error. After all, this is a feedback thread not a thread full of demands. :)
    Click to expand...

    The feedback is being seen. We aren't going to backpedal on a decision so swiftly though, which I hope people recognize. While it's all being said, we've yet to see where these new names get us in a longer period of time than the day they've been up and we've certainly not had the time to analyze the effects of the name changes or new attempts for the areas.

    As Audy and I both said: we're trying something new out and we want to see how things go. We'll be watching of course, see how the areas progress, and then if it's clear there's confusion or an obvious desire to change things back (after some time), I see no reason we wouldn't switch back or adapt to the needs of the forum.
     

    Lunaris Adamantine

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    • The way I see it, if you have 37 separate forums on the home page, each with their own unique description, you really should make it simple to understand what each is from the title alone. No one should have to read a ten page essays worth to be able to understand the layout of a community website.

    It's just not a good idea to have ambiguous titles. If a new user's first experience is confusion, why would they feel like they should stay? Keeping it simple is the only logical way to go.
     
    Last edited:

    abnegation

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    I'd just like to mention here that it's important to consider beyond the opinion of users who visit every day and/or have been on PC for many years. The majority of people who voiced their content with the change are "veteran" PC members who are both used to seeing things change, and are familiar with the layout of the forum. It's fine for us users who know the exact layout of PC and were here to see it change because we know what the forums are. However for any new or less PC-savvy user they're left asking "what's this?". It's more likely that we'll see people skip over descriptions and not bother with the forum than actually see a rise in activity or engagement. You need to consider how you're marketing your front page, if something isn't clear then it's going to lose that engagement. Make your social media effortless for people to use and they will continue to come back; force them to do even a very minor amount of research and they'll be much more likely to ignore it completely.

    The fact of the matter here is that changes like this put design in front of function without real benefit. Activity of the sections in the official forums isn't going to go up because there's now a more thematic Animal Crossing styled naming scheme.

    I personally wouldn't have a problem if I thought there was a pro other than a minor aesthetic, but for now I only see a loss of clarity in purpose for two very important forums. I know people say "it's not a serious thing", but this the first set of forum sections seen on your front page. It needs to be as clear and engaging as possible.
     
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    Maruno

    Maruno

    Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
    5,286
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    • Seen May 3, 2024
    I'll add my support for the "it's confusing and should be clearer" side.

    It's also inconsistent; why do these two sections get cutesy town-related names when (mostly) all the other sections don't follow this naming theme and are clear about what's inside them? The whole forum isn't a kind of roleplay, so why should there be a naming convention that evokes that?

    That level of abstraction in the naming makes a person think and waste time interpreting it, and reduces the user experience. These two sections are important, and confusing people with them is simply not on. I encounter a similar matter in game development, with maps whose boundaries are not clear and you can't readily tell which parts are accessible and which aren't (usually caused by randomly scattered trees and very narrow and winding paths, all in the name of an "organic feel") - this is an example of poor design in the maps, and I think it's a poor design choice here too.

    While we're on the topic, I don't like the names of the Treehouse, Round Table, Playground or Underground either, for the same reasons. They're only vaguely indicative of what they're for (except Treehouse whose name is completely random and means nothing; and a Round Table is for knights, not debates*), and you're practically required to read the descriptions to figure out what each section is. What's the point of having section titles if you need to read the descriptions anyway?

    Klippy said:
    in a longer period of time ... see how the areas progress, and then ... (after some time)
    Click to expand...
    Any idea of a more specific timeframe for this? A couple of weeks? A month? How long do you think the trial period should be? Oh, and will you (h-staff, not you specifically, Klippy) ask us what we think at the end of it, or will you assume our eventual silence is consent and quietly decide to do nothing (we're obviously not going to remain vocal about this for weeks on end, because that's a waste of time)?

    Perhaps I sounded a little too aggressive there. Sorry. I just want to know what the procedure would be, given that h-staff now know about this dissatisfaction.


    * I know there's a style of debate called "round table", but that's definitely not the first thing that springs to mind when you hear the phrase, and that makes it a poor choice for a name.
     
    Klippy

    Klippy

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    • No, there's no specific time frame. We're gonna watch how things go, see how they look after some time, and then revisit it. For now though, the names are what they are and we'll go from there.
     
    Cherrim

    Cherrim

    PSA: Blossom Shower theme is BACK ♥
    33,288
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    • The current names are muuuch better. I actually quite liked the change to NU/W since I like the direction you guys are gonna take with that forum but I found this forum's name pretty jarring. I think it's perfect this way, though, with the subtitle! Best of both worlds.
     

    abnegation

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    • Seen Dec 30, 2023
    Klippy said:
    No, there's no specific time frame. We're gonna watch how things go, see how they look after some time, and then revisit it. For now though, the names are what they are and we'll go from there.
    Click to expand...

    Maruno said:
    I'll add my support for the "it's confusing and should be clearer" side.

    It's also inconsistent; why do these two sections get cutesy town-related names when (mostly) all the other sections don't follow this naming theme and are clear about what's inside them? The whole forum isn't a kind of roleplay, so why should there be a naming convention that evokes that?

    That level of abstraction in the naming makes a person think and waste time interpreting it, and reduces the user experience. These two sections are important, and confusing people with them is simply not on. I encounter a similar matter in game development, with maps whose boundaries are not clear and you can't readily tell which parts are accessible and which aren't (usually caused by randomly scattered trees and very narrow and winding paths, all in the name of an "organic feel") - this is an example of poor design in the maps, and I think it's a poor design choice here too.

    While we're on the topic, I don't like the names of the Treehouse, Round Table, Playground or Underground either, for the same reasons. They're only vaguely indicative of what they're for (except Treehouse whose name is completely random and means nothing; and a Round Table is for knights, not debates*), and you're practically required to read the descriptions to figure out what each section is. What's the point of having section titles if you need to read the descriptions anyway?


    Any idea of a more specific timeframe for this? A couple of weeks? A month? How long do you think the trial period should be? Oh, and will you (h-staff, not you specifically, Klippy) ask us what we think at the end of it, or will you assume our eventual silence is consent and quietly decide to do nothing (we're obviously not going to remain vocal about this for weeks on end, because that's a waste of time)?

    Perhaps I sounded a little too aggressive there. Sorry. I just want to know what the procedure would be, given that h-staff now know about this dissatisfaction.


    * I know there's a style of debate called "round table", but that's definitely not the first thing that springs to mind when you hear the phrase, and that makes it a poor choice for a name.
    Click to expand...

    Lunaris Adamantine said:
    The way I see it, if you have 37 separate forums on the home page, each with their own unique description, you really should make it simple to understand what each is from the title alone. No one should have to read a ten page essays worth to be able to understand the layout of a community website.

    It's just not a good idea to have ambiguous titles. If a new user's first experience is confusion, why would they feel like they should stay? Keeping it simple is the only logical way to go.
    Click to expand...

    curiousnathan said:
    I'm not opposed to new changes, but I do think the feedback is warranted. For such a serious forum, I do think clarity is key. The other less "serious" forums so to speak can get away with having cute little names, but for CQ&F, it should stick with a less ambiguous name.
    Click to expand...

    Ahri said:
    I wasn't looking for anything in particular I simply came on thinking "Oh, I haven't been on PC in a while, let's see what goes on" and the first thing I saw were all those section name changes and I actually thought they were maybe new features and started reading the descriptions.
    Spoiler:
    Click to expand...

    Ahri said:
    I haven't been on PC for months due to life being busy and I must admit, I was VERY confused looking at the forum. I no longer knew which was which and couldn't tell anything apart anymore. I found it frustrating having to really look around to find something I needed.


    So I agree with Gav 200%.
    Click to expand...

    Arylett Charnoa said:
    I'll just add my two cents on this.

    I agree 150% with you, Abnegation, and found this to be a problem before the Welcome section was even changed. I'm not even a new member, but when I started trying to use the roleplay section, I've found myself constantly confusing the difference between "Casting" and "Stage." Perhaps this makes me kind of stupid or low in memory, but I've needed to think about some sections for a few more seconds before clicking on them. At a quick glance, without thinking, one should be able to tell what a section is. And now I'm just imagining what it would be like for a new member who might have the same problem... I think that when one creates a website, usability and clarity are the most important things that should be focused on. They are what make a more friendly and easy to navigate environment, rather than making one that is frustrating and confusing. Something like the Welcoming place really does need to have a clear name that says: "This is where you post your welcomes" without having to read a description.

    Of course, I'd like to let people know that I don't really think this is a big deal. I would prefer they change, but I can live with it.
    Click to expand...

    El Héroe Oscuro said:
    To me, the change from "The Welcome Lounge" to "Main Street" seems like a step backwards in terms of clearly defining what that particular forum is about. The good thing about the previous title was that it clearly dictated or referenced within the actual title what the forum would be about, and sequentially give users - especially new ones - an idea as to where to go to introduce themselves

    Unfortunately, again in my opinion, I believe there is a lot of ambiguity centering around that name, which ultimately if that's the first forum that new users are going to shouldn't have any. I don't really care about whether or not themes are in place - City Hall actually makes sense to me - but Main Street seems like a forced name to fit in with the overall theme you are going with those and creates ambiguity as a result, which is why I think it's a step backwards in terms of branding. I don't have any alternatives to the name at this time I'm typing this message, but I'd like to suggest possibly mulling over a different name of you are sticking to this theme.

    Just my two cents.
    Click to expand...

    donavannj said:
    I can see the rationale behind the City Hall name (I mean, if you wanted something resolved in most cities I've been to, that's one of the places you would want to go to at least inquire about it), but that tells you nothing about what the forum is about, especially if you don't know what a city hall is or what purpose it serves.
    Click to expand...

    hashtag said:
    I think you're wrong there I'm afraid. 99% of users will not read the rules when they first join and that is a fact. People do not check the description before they post, this is evidenced pretty obviously when you go to CQ+F and there's a ROM Hacking thread in there. In fact, I have never read any of the forum descriptions. Whenever I do anything at work we always say you should plan for worst case scenario. After all it is not a perfect world.

    I can understand the ambiguous names of the off-topic discussions forums but it doesn't really make much sense elsewhere in my opinion.
    Click to expand...

    QXXxYEH.gif
     

    abnegation

    10,673
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    Why was my post deleted? It was the same as Audy's? I quoted people who agreed with me and added an Adventure Time gif of two people hi-fiving but my post was considered "unnecessary" while Audy's is considered okay? I spent a long while handling reports and deleting posts but if mine is "unnecessary" so is Audy's. Poor show.

    Anyway, the update of the forum titles is a definite improvement and a nice compromise. Kudos to the quick turnaround and I appreciate the responses to my feedback. It's always great to see good reactions overall.
     
    Pebbles

    Pebbles

    BE YOUR OWN HERO
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    • even though i agree its better to have a board title to be clear and logical
    i don't think its that of a big deal because.... how lazy can you be if you do not read the description of a board... thats all people have to do to get where what is ...
    i think it is fun to have cute board names like this and as long as the forum description is clear about what you can find in the board, i don't see a problem

    but if a forum has unclear board titles & unclear forum descriptions or no board descriptions at all... yes that would be stupid and causing problems obviously for new members
    ​
     
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