What did you think of Team Skull?

RickGrimes · Nov 28, 2016

Considering that I was really disappointed with Team Flare in X/Y, this new group feels like a HUGE improvement. At least to me.

How about you guys?

SleepingTyrant · Nov 28, 2016

hated them at first, but they grew on me

Frozocrone · Nov 28, 2016

Probably one of the best 'teams' out there. It took an interesting spin on youth delinquents who didn't have any direction in life and told it well.

RickGrimes · Nov 28, 2016

It also helps that the facial expressions they make are priceless.

Rivvon · Nov 28, 2016

I was disappointed with how they handled their major characters. Gladion has no reason to be a part of Team Skull and never once does he do anything in their name. Plumeria and Guzma are just there to battle and aren't important to the plot at all. I think it's a shame because they have solid visual designs and their battle music is great, too. The Grunts were amusing but overall the team didn't do much. I kinda wish there were more trials like the first, where some Grunts interrupt and you have to deal with them. I think that would have not only helped liven up some of the more boring trials, but also would have given an opportunity for Team Skull (grunts, admins, and all) to be more involved, if even just a little.

RickGrimes · Nov 28, 2016

colours said:
To me, they were funny and dorky. But more than that, I feel that they were... actually strangely relatable? I say this because they feel more like everyday people than any previous evil team. It's probably because it's about time we've had an evil team that's comparatively about as normal as you can get being a bunch of theives and punks with no real ambition but to cause **** for people, really.

It also helps that some of the grunts say really funny stuff sometimes!

Really though, this is one of the best, if not the best evil team out there. No fancy hideout, no "taking over the world" or whatever that we've been exposed to; they just made some old town their hideout that looks all beat up like you'd expect and our duty is that we just have to metaphorically beat up some punks causing trouble around the region and that was it. It actually felt more refreshing in that manner, to be honest. I was getting kind of tired with the generic evil team with an excessively radical leader that seemed to be going theme in recent generations.

No plans for mass genocide this time.

But I agree. Considering that I have friends who used to live in Detroit, Michigan (labeled as the most dangerous city in America), this reminded me of them in a strange way.. I thought that was pretty cool.

UmbreShaun · Nov 28, 2016

Rivvon said:
I was disappointed with how they handled their major characters. Gladion has no reason to be a part of Team Skull and never once does he do anything in their name. Plumeria and Guzma are just there to battle and aren't important to the plot at all. I think it's a shame because they have solid visual designs and their battle music is great, too. The Grunts were amusing but overall the team didn't do much. I kinda wish there were more trials like the first, where some Grunts interrupt and you have to deal with them. I think that would have not only helped liven up some of the more boring trials, but also would have given an opportunity for Team Skull (grunts, admins, and all) to be more involved, if even just a little.

Agree with this. They just didn't resonate with me they didn't make any lasting impact. They were more annoyances than anything and I really wanted to like them.

The Evil Mewtwo · Nov 28, 2016

It 's pretty good since they are criminal like gang. They do graffiti, pull signs and steal. Guzma is also a gangster which makes Team Skull better than others including Team Rockets.

Rivvon · Nov 28, 2016

colours said:
I do agree with you in some aspects in regards to the major characters, however I also think you're missing the general point of why they're there. Gladion doesn't seem like the type to like Team Skull at all nor does he really feel like a part of the team, however it's explained in the dialogue that he's there because Guzma likes him and he only does odd jobs for Team Skull (which I assume is the usual: cause **** and steal from people)l. He's a punk who had no real actual direction so why not do a few favors for Team Skull on the side? That's the way that I look at it, personally.

As for them being plot important? That actually depends on what you define as plot important. This is where I disagree with you in that Team Skull was pretty prelevant throughout several areas of the game. I'm actually rather confused and surprised that you think they haven't interrupted the player enough, because they have quite a bit. Have you forgotten that they're in your hair in just about every island? Even in Akala Island, where you would think they would be largely absent (and they are, for the most part), you'd still have to fight off some grunts and Plumeria before you even fight Olivia, and Ula'Ula island is where the Team Skull interference gets jacked up to 11.

Plumeria even gets her own character development moment towards the end when Guzma is in Ultra Space, so, at least to me, it's rather simple to get attached to her character at that point.

But I'm curious in what way that you'd expect them to be more involved?

Spoiler:

When you think about it, Team Skull is actually fairly involved in the deeper aspects of the plot, as well. Given that mid-late game you're introduced to the concept of Ultra Beasts, you don't expect the Aether Foundation to initially be working with Team Skull to achieve their end goal at all. so yes, they're a lot more involved than you think, though I suppose you're more disappointed that this wasn't more obvious, which I suppose I can agree with.

Yes, it's highly likely that they were manipulated by Lusamine and as such were ultimately used to help her search out Nebby so she can steal it to summon the Ultra Beasts, and as such they as a group by themselves have no point, but... that is the point. They're a group of ruffians and punks, they're not going to be some complex syndicate that we've been exposed to in previous generations.

I do agree that Guzma could use more appearances himself, though.

For Gladion, from the very beginning he talks about being nice and not letting Pokémon get hurt for no reason. To me, I never interpreted him as a "punk" or "misguided," just "desperate for money." But it's very clear, with hints that Gladion can't pay his bills any more, and especially by Po Town, that Team Skull isn't a job that pays. The fact that Gladion doesn't actually do anything in-game in relation to Team Skull is what I don't like. He could have been a cashier at the Thrifty Megamart and nothing about his character or even where and when he appears in-game would have changed. Just one line of dialog from a nameless grunt would have to be altered a bit and that's it.

The Grunts do interrupt the player a lot, yes, but what are they doing? Stealing Berries?

I think my biggest disappointment with Team Skull is that

Spoiler:

I think it's a shame because I actually liked that they were more low-key than numerous previous teams. If the main conflict of the story was, "Team Skull, a group of ruffians, tries to cause havoc in cities and Island Trials," I think I would have liked that a lot more, and then the major members of Team Skull would have had a purpose.

Spoiler:

But if the main conflict of the story absolutely had to stay the same, at least giving Team Skull more of a focus, more of their own sub-plot, per se (actively trying to ruin Trials as opposed to it being a one-off thing, for example), I think would have strengthened them as a Team.

Rivvon · Nov 28, 2016

colours said:
You raise some interesting points, but you're overlooking some things, I feel: If Team Skull weren't in the game, and you would've replaced them with the Aether Foundation completely, then we would've had:

Spoiler:

another generic evil team with another generic evil team leader with some egregious and radical goal in mind. In short, it would've been very difficult to be attached to any of the characters, and hell, I'd argue the game would be worse off if it was just the Aether Foundation running things. Keep in mind that the only real noteworthy characters are Faba and Lusamine, the former of which is relevant for all of but a few minutes until you beat him while Lusamine hogs the spotlight.

You're right in one thing: largely, Team Skull doesn't serve any significant point, which is perhaps a negative, but the fact that they exist period is a positive -- although we know from the opening scene of SM that the Aether Foundation are the bad guys, we're left wondering (well, I guess unless you're a super keen eyed gamer, I suppose) exactly what Team Skull's bigger purpose is, and it turns out that they were just some ordinary ruffian gang that was being used by the real villains which I think, at least for me, caused me to like Team Skull more and hate the Aether Foundation (or well, more specifically, Lusamine) for manipulated everyone in Team Skull and then tossing them away when they mean nothing, anymore.

This is actually a positive in a narrative sense. While yes, you can argue that the point that the Aether Foundation being the true main big bads and taking the spotlight off of Team Skull made Skull look insignificant, perhaps the bigger point is that Team Skull wasn't that significant to begin with -- perhaps they were just ordinary thugs meant to cause you trouble throughout the story until they got dragged into this Ultra Beast mess. I mean, this is a theory based on what's already heavily implied already, but I hope you can see how this can easily be the case?

This is even more emphasized on your last meeting with Plumeria when she gives you the Poisonsium-Z -- she just wants you to save Guzma because the group has an attachment to him. The grunts don't really have a sense of worth anymore without Guzma around and the group feels disorganized. When you meet Guzma in Ultra Space, even he's not his usual self.

I know I'm probably just pouring a lot of sentimental stuff into the characters, but there's a reason, and there's a bigger picture behind why Team Skull exists. Granted, yes, at the end of the day, we still got a generic evil team with some radical lunatic as a leader, but you start to look at things from a different light when an evil team that you've been fighting with from the entire game starts allying with them and figuring out the real reasons why those partnerships even happen.

Honestly, if It wasn't for Team Skull, I don't think it would be possible to establish any kind of connection at all with any of the antagonists -- I certainly couldn't establish any connection with Lusamine and certainly not Faba, and Wicke isn't really an evil person, so the Aether Foundation would've fell flat as an evil team by themselves.

TLDR: So by having a low-key evil team with more "human" (meaning more "everyday person" not "super evil scientist") characters with more low-key villainous ambitions, it helps develop that attachment to not just Team Skull and their characters (hell, I even liked their grunts -- they're a far more entertaining bunch than any past generation grunts), they've managed to give the Aether Foundation more depth as a result. Sure, we hate them more, but the bigger point is that emotional investment, which I think would be missing if it was just the Aether Foundation themselves causing a ruckus and then it would be like "ok i guess we have to stop them".

Does all of this make sense? I feel I went on a large tangent haha.

spoiler time

Spoiler:

I definitely agree that Team Skull being in the game at all adds a certain "flair" which helps break up the monotony that would have happened if it was just Aether the whole way through.

Your idea that finding out Team Skull is literally just some random thugs who were manipulated by Aether which makes you feel bad for them is interesting, but I won't lie: since Plumeria and Guzma took so long to even appear in the story and only appeared a few times, I didn't... even think to feel bad. Aether was using them, so what? I'm pretty sure a Skull Grunt described Aether as their "sponsor," which left me under the impression that Guzma was willingly letting himself be used. If the writers wanted people to feel sympathetic towards Team Skull (I genuinely didn't, I hadn't even considered that that's what they were going for), perhaps more focus on the origins of the Team, along with some way to integrate how Team Skull came to be "thieves for Aether," could have helped? It still comes down to "more involvement," in the end.

And when Plumeria says that Guzma follows Lusamine because she's the only adult who ever noticed his strength... it just makes me question why on earth he has so many trophies in his room (the one on Route 2), and why his mom says he won lots of competitions when he was younger... Surely winning trophies means your strengths were noticed? I dunno, to me it just feels like... I don't even know what they were trying to do with his character.

And honestly, I didn't establish any sort of connection to anyone in Aether at all. Faba is just annoying, Wicke is just there to be nice, and Lusamine is so nonsensical it amazes me. Maybe you were able to feel some sort of connection to Aether through Skull, but to me, Skull's lack of importance didn't help Aether in any way. In all honesty--and this isn't really anything to do with Skull in my mind, but maybe you'll find it's a little related--the plot, to me, did boil down to "ok I guess we have to stop them"... because Lillie asked us to help. Because once Lusamine goes into the Discount Distortion World, she says she wants to stay there with her weird jellyfish. Like, okay. Let's just leave her, then. She won't be able to get out, we already know from Guzma that they can control her to their own will (hey Guzma did help with something, nice), all we need to do is leave and clean up the UB's that were let out into our world and that's the end of that. But we stick around and fight Lusamine because it's what Lillie wants us to do. What does that have to do with Team Skull? I dunno, really. But maybe that's just it. Even in that regard Team Skull is not necessary.

For me, Team Skull was just so pointless and Plumeria and Guzma have so few appearances that I couldn't bring myself to feel... sympathetic or anything at all towards them. I liked them for their appearances and music and felt sad that that's all there was to them. Not to mention that Gladion doesn't even need to be a part of Team Skull at all.

Hikamaru · Nov 28, 2016

I can understand Rivvon's points, but I mainly loved Team Skull for their funny dialogue and the hip-hop dance movements the grunts do when they show up. Plus, I have to admit I loved Guzma as well, especially since he was quite a challenge for my team with his priority-specialized Golisopod.

blue · Nov 28, 2016

They were just fun. You couldn't take them too seriously, their dialogue was goofy and their movements were laughable. I much preferred them to Team Flare as I felt like Skull had a lot more depth to them with their characters being more memorable and distinguishable. I'd still say Team Galactic are my favourites, but I'd put Team Skull in my top 3 for villainous teams for sure!

Caite-chan · Nov 28, 2016

Every time they showed up I couldn't help but to laugh at them. And then when I'd get together and play with my friend we couldn't help but to laugh at them. We couldn't take them seriously because of how gangster they were trying to be. The way they walked and stood there trying to pull gang signs it was like OMG you're trying to hard to be thugs and its funny. We just couldn't get past that.

TrendyHipsta · Nov 28, 2016

For me it's the music. Team Skull has a certain frequency in my ears that just clicks with me and their characters definitely play a part. I hated Guzma at first but his theme really brought it up to life. I just wish we can fight him again. > - <

Bellsprout · Nov 28, 2016

I liked them. They seemed the most real to me out of all the teams. Their members were relatable. I think it's a more common thing to see delinquent youths rather than environmental extremists or religious fanatics in your normal day to day life. Where the Aether foundation was the real mastermind, team skull has the luxury of being a bit flawed without so much hate because they're not the spotlight of the story.

I never got why exactly Plumeria was a part of team skull. I suppose it can be assumed she also never completed her trials or whatever, but she seemed to be the most intelligent out of anyone on that team. I don't remember any backstory or anything. She's just there. I also didn't exactly get why Gladion joined team skull. I came to the conclusion when he left he had no where to go and where team skull was sponsored by his mother's company he was able to be supported easily under them??

but ignoring those two points. I liked their music, i liked the idea of them, the movements were slight overkill when they're doing it for an entire conversation, but besides that enjoyable team

mikey · Nov 29, 2016

Loved them. They were really entertaining to encounter, which I never found with any other 'evil' organization. Their dialogue was hilarious, as was their hand gestures. I kind of felt like each grunt had their own personality in a way as well.

Plus, their music is pretty rad.

Thunderflare · Nov 29, 2016

They were dumber than a sack of hammers and I loved them for it. They were a good source of comedic relief.

One thing that I think would have improved them is if they weren't "real" badguys. If all that Pokemon theft was actually the Aether Foundation framing them, then we could have a moment where Team Skull actually recruits you to clear their name. It would have been far more delightful if we had a time where we teamed up with Guzma because he needed us, but he'd still pretend like he's top dog. And they could have had the Team Skull Grunt outfit as a reward.

What did you think of Team Skull?

More options

RickGrimes

SleepingTyrant

Pokemon Treasure Hunter

Frozocrone

Fighting a bigger fight

RickGrimes

Rivvon

RickGrimes

UmbreShaun

The Evil Mewtwo

Rivvon

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Hikamaru

blue

gucci

Caite-chan

TrendyHipsta

Bellsprout

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mikey

Thunderflare