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Is Lillie a disappointment?

Alexander18

Alexander18

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Frozocrone said:
I said it makes you look stupid, not that you are stupid. Don't put words in my mouth.

As I said, she has had development and pointed out some examples how she has development, as did Rad Dudesman.

Also, if you want a discussion, explain why you think Lillie has had no development. I'm not just going to believe Lillie has no development 'because Alexander18 said so'. Justify your reasoning (why Lillie has zero development) with the evidence (the anime) if you actually want a discussion. It's all very well being particular about how characters grow, but you've given nothing to explain yourself other than 'muh opinion'. Repeating your statement without anything to back it up won't make others agree with you.
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Saying it makes me look stupid is the same as calling me stupid. Don't do it.

Lillie has no developed due to have one pokemon that she does not train and a personality that i do not like. Lillie has not impressed me in both games and anime.
 
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Frozocrone

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Alexander18 said:
Saying it makes me look stupid is the same as calling me stupid. Don't do it.

Lillie has no developed due to have one pokemon and a personality that i do not like. Lillie has not impressed me in both games and anime.
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No it doesn't. You could have an IQ of 216 for all I know. I'm only going by your statements which make you appear stupid, even though that may very well not be the case.

1) She wasn't a trainer at the start of the saga and had no Pok?mon. Now she is a trainer and not only has her own Pok?mon, but has made progress in her fear by touching not only her own Pok?mon but Ash's Pikachu as well. Your logic is incorrect because the events of the anime contradict what you're saying.

2) Not liking a personality is entirely subjective and plays no part in assessing development of characters. I don't particularly care for the personalities of Dawn and Serena. Does that mean neither character developed? No, because both did develop, Dawn's misplaced confidence and Serena's lack of direction in life.
 
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Alexander18

Alexander18

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Frozocrone said:
No it doesn't. You could have an IQ of 216 for all I know. I'm only going by your statements which make you appear stupid, even though that may very well not be case.

1) She wasn't a trainer at the start of the saga and had no Pok?mon. Now she is a trainer and not only has her own Pok?mon, but has made progress in her fear by touching not only her own Pok?mon but Ash's Pikachu as well. Your logic is incorrect because the events of the anime contradict what you're saying.

2) Not liking a personality is entirely subjective and plays no part in assessing development of characters. I don't particularly care for the personalities of Dawn and Serena. Does that mean neither character developed? No, because both did develop, Dawn's misplaced confidence and Serena's lack of direction in life.
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My opinions do not make me look stupid and saying that is basically calling me stupid. So i am asking you to not do that even if you disagree with my opinions. My logic is fine for me.

Lillie has not developed her vulpix and getting over her fear is barely development for me. We may never agree on whether lillie has developed or not but we are both have the right to make opinions without telling someone their opinion makes them look stupid.

I respect your opinion and i respectfully disagree. Lillie may prove me wrong later on but that is yet to be determined for me.
 

Jalsy

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I don't think she's a disappointment. I don't see like that since there still a huge space for her development, and the series is not far than long yet so there's always room for character development, not just for her but for other characters as well. So far, I'm loving Lillie and there could be more reveal sooner for her in the series.. who knows.
 

Piii

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Alexander18 said:
My opinions do not make me look stupid and saying that is basically calling me stupid. So i am asking you to not do that even if you disagree with my opinions. My logic is fine for me.

Lillie has not developed her vulpix and getting over her fear is barely development for me. We may never agree on whether lillie has developed or not but we are both have the right to make opinions without telling someone their opinion makes them look stupid.

I respect your opinion and i respectfully disagree. Lillie may prove me wrong later on but that is yet to be determined for me.
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I'm pretty sure Lillie had some development. She wasn't a trainer when the SM anime started and she did overcome her fear of Pokemon, she now has a Vulpix for her very first Pokemon, and now she needs to capture one more Pokemon for her team.

Lillie has been a let down lately, which is a darn shame because it seem like she was going to become an interesting character. But she still have a chance to have good character development, we just have to wait and see.
 
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weedle_mchairybug

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Piii said:
I'm pretty sure Lillie had some development. She wasn't a trainer when the SM anime started and she did overcome her fear of Pokemon, she now has a Vulpix for her very first Pokemon, and now she needs to capture one more Pokemon for her team.

Lillie has been a let down lately, which is a darn shame because it seem like she was going to become an interesting character. But she still have a chance to have good character development, we just have to wait and see.
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Yeah, and if you ask me, Lillie at least had far better development than May did even with the limited amount she did receive. At least Lillie became a trainer AFTER putting aside her fear of Pokémon, unlike May, who outright hated Pokémon despite becoming a Pokémon trainer at that time AND coming from a Gym Leader family (and quite frankly, her hating Pokémon, especially while acting as a beginning trainer at the same time, literally SPAT on the entire POINT of being a trainer. If she didn't like Pokémon, she shouldn't even be a trainer, plain and simple).
 
Alexander18

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Piii said:
I'm pretty sure Lillie had some development. She wasn't a trainer when the SM anime started and she did overcome her fear of Pokemon, she now has a Vulpix for her very first Pokemon, and now she needs to capture one more Pokemon for her team.

Lillie has been a let down lately, which is a darn shame because it seem like she was going to become an interesting character. But she still have a chance to have good character development, we just have to wait and see.
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The only development lillie got was developing into a bad character in my opinion. I am not giving her any chances.

And no, May had better development than lillie ever had. May is superior in every way.
 
Kostas

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Please don't get too off-topic. Also, May didn't like Pokemon at first and she started her journey just to travel, but this changed really soon so I don't see any problem with this.
 
CidHazard

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I feel that it's still way too early to talk about this.

We're only 41 episodes in of a potential 150+ episode saga. Where not even close to done with the first part of the Pokemon SM anime, as we still have that sequel series to look forward too.

Serena herself came to her own in episode 60, and arguably she still had a long way to go at that point in the show.

From what I've seen Lillie has already grown wonderfully in the 40+ episodes. With episode 30 being huge for her character.
 
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dragonAB

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Alexander18 said:
The only development lillie got was developing into a bad character in my opinion. I am not giving her any chances.

And no, May had better development than lillie ever had. May is superior in every way.
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From not being a Pokemon trainer to being a Pokemon trainer is a good development. She can touch Vulpix and Pikachu. Plus SM is not even half done. So there is a lot of scope for Lillie's development. The is also Aether arch to come into picture. Mallow is no better than Lillie because even after Bounsweet evolving she hasn't shown anything worth.
 
Alexander18

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dragonAB said:
From not being a Pokemon trainer to being a Pokemon trainer is a good development. She can touch Vulpix and Pikachu. Plus SM is not even half done. So there is a lot of scope for Lillie's development. The is also Aether arch to come into picture. Mallow is no better than Lillie because even after Bounsweet evolving she hasn't shown anything worth.
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Getting over a fear is not really development. It was a choice. Sorry but lillie has not developed in my eyes and has been a liability to ash's group in my opinion.
 

weedle_mchairybug

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Alexander18 said:
Getting over a fear is not really development. It was a choice. Sorry but lillie has not developed in my eyes and has been a liability to ash's group in my opinion.
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It was development for Misty, though, especially regarding Gyarados.

Though, I'll humor you, suppose it wasn't development, how about you give a full list of what actually qualifies as character development?
 
janejane6178

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weedle_mchairybug said:
It was development for Misty, though, especially regarding Gyarados.

Though, I'll humor you, suppose it wasn't development, how about you give a full list of what actually qualifies as character development?
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I think that Serena is a good example for a character who went through a solid development- from a spoiled girl with no goal she became a confident girl who traveled with friends she didnt know, even stood up to her mother and managed to tell her Ash how she feels about him, and expressing ur feelings to the one u love is not easy AT ALL.

What has Lily have done so far? received an egg from her teacher and took care of it after hatching? Staying at her rich house and going to class to meet her class mates everyday ? She didnt even choose to be with them, unlike Serena who chose to travel with friends on her own. She doesnt even have a goal (No, touching Pokemon is not an active and intruiging goal in my opinon).
 
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CodeHelmet

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janejane6178 said:
I think that Serena is a good example for a character who went through a solid development- from a spoiled girl with no goal she became a confident girl who traveled with friends she didnt know, even stood up to her mother and managed to tell her Ash how she feels about him, and expressing ur feelings to the one u love is not easy AT ALL.

What has Lily have done so far? received an egg from her teacher and took care of it after hatching? Staying at her rich house and going to class to meet her class mates everyday ? She didnt even choose to be with them, unlike Serena who chose to travel with friends on her own. She doesnt even have a goal (No, touching Pokemon is not an active and intruiging goal in my opinon).
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Yet do we have any idea what caused Lillie to fear Pokemon? You forget there is a picture of her with her brother and mother when she was really young holding a Pokemon. There was some traumatic event that they've yet to divulge that caused her to suddenly fear every Pokemon that she comes across and only recently has she begun the recovery process. In other words, she's a classic case of PTSD.

Being able to touch Pokemon again, be it Vulpix, Pikachu or any Pokemon for that matter is SOME form of development in the form of "recovery". The pace at which she's recovering is incredibly slow, however, which drives the impatient person in me nuts but recovery for PTSD is incredibly slow and sometimes the mental scars never heal. The problem, if there is one, is that the mechanism for her recovery or character development has been the same in each of the 4 instances it has been brought up so far(which PRB noted in his video). If they were change things up with regards to her or introduce some backstory(*cough Aether arc cough*) regarding the incident, then maybe we will understand and appreciate her character more for what it is.
 
janejane6178

janejane6178

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CodeHelmet said:
Yet do we have any idea what caused Lillie to fear Pokemon? You forget there is a picture of her with her brother and mother when she was really young holding a Pokemon. There was some traumatic event that they've yet to divulge that caused her to suddenly fear every Pokemon that she comes across and only recently has she begun the recovery process. In other words, she's a classic case of PTSD.

Being able to touch Pokemon again, be it Vulpix, Pikachu or any Pokemon for that matter is SOME form of development in the form of "recovery". The pace at which she's recovering is incredibly slow, however, which drives the impatient person in me nuts but recovery for PTSD is incredibly slow and sometimes the mental scars never heal. The problem, if there is one, is that the mechanism for her recovery or character development has been the same in each of the 4 instances it has been brought up so far(which PRB noted in his video). If they were change things up with regards to her or introduce some backstory(*cough Aether arc cough*) regarding the incident, then maybe we will understand and appreciate her character more for what it is.
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Ok I get what u say and every1 says to wait till the Aether F plot kickcs it, but I cant resolve a character development judging by one arc, but only by the whole series. As for now, she bores the hell out of me .
 
Alexander18

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weedle_mchairybug said:
It was development for Misty, though, especially regarding Gyarados.

Though, I'll humor you, suppose it wasn't development, how about you give a full list of what actually qualifies as character development?
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Actually being a trainer at the start, no being apart of the background all the time, not being another Iris and Serena, is actually useful and have a purpose.

Those are what i look for in a character and their development. Lillie does not fit the bill and has not developed any of those things. But this is i what i see in characters. Obviously everyone has different opinions.
 
janejane6178

janejane6178

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Alexander18 said:
Actually being a trainer at the start, no being apart of the background all the time, not being another Iris and Serena, is actually useful and have a purpose.

Those are what i look for in a character and their development. Lillie does not fit the bill and has not developed any of those things. But this is i what i see in characters. Obviously everyone has different opinions.
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How can u even compare a shallow and a passive character like Lillie to them?
 
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