Repeal of the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. Obamacare)

Sir Codin said:

The vote for the new GOP HC bill has been delayed.

They're supposedly having trouble securing the votes of the Freedom Caucus - because to them, the new healthcare bill doesn't cut enough healthcare benefits, including the pre-existing conditions and 26 years of age clauses. In other words, the FC wants a bill that is all-or-nothing. Either everything about Obamacare gets cut in the new bill or they won't vote on it. If they do cut more however, then they risk losing the votes of the more moderate republicans. If the bill loses more than 22 republican votes, it dies on the floor. That puts a huge blow to Ryan and Trump's agendas (side-note, I don't consider that a bad thing.)

Click to expand...

I think more on Ryans side myself, but Ironically Democrats will be happy because more than likely with Trumps latest threat Obamacare will stay in place because no way will the bill pass.

the new healthcare bill has been pulled!

Seven years in the hyping, over something of whose components nobody knew about, had a deadline that was missed, was very controversial to critics, was thought to be better than its predecessor in theory, only for it to end up as one, big, stinkin' fart. Trump and the GOP lawmakers who came up with Trumpcare are like Valve Software and its projects...

...No wait, I take it back. People actually like Valve's products.

Taro Tanaka said:

Seven years in the hyping, over something of whose components nobody knew about, had a deadline that was missed, was very controversial to critics, was thought to be better than its predecessor in theory, only for it to end up as one, big, stinkin' fart. Trump and the GOP lawmakers who came up with Trumpcare are like Valve Software and its projects...

...No wait, I take it back. People actually like Valve's products.

Click to expand...

And Valve's products are actually affordable. How else do you think Gaben has a net worth greater than Trump? Those dang Steam sales!

"Trumpcare," on the other hand, was worse than Obamacare by every standard. No one liked it- no Democrats or Republicans. And obviously even the Libertarians hated it.

just heard from my mom the bill was pulled and i am extremely happy about that. i hope more of his other bills he hopes to propose get pulled too.

In the end, the greed of the Freedom Caucus proved to be their undoing. Facebook is a glorious sight right now and for good reason: so much for Trump's Art of the Deal. Him blaming the democrats is funny. No shit the democrats would be against you, Drumpf. It was on him and Ryan to get their party together to pass it and they failed spectacularly. The Republicans have majority in Congress. They have control of the White House. They'll probably even soon have control over the Supreme Court.

They still couldn't pass it, for reasons I listed in my previous post: the Republican party is now split and a complete mess. The moderates don't want their party dragged down any further by the Freedom Caucus and Trump's unprofessionalism, but that won't satisfy the Caucus' all-or-nothing approach.

I think the Republicans are getting cocky, with their complete control over elected government. Every faction is trying to drive a hard bargain and don't feel threatened enough to compromise.

I've read that the Freedom Caucus was being lobbied by the Koch brothers to oppose the bill because it doesn't go far enough in removing things in the ACA like the staying-on-parents-plan-until-26 rule and others. (The Kochs are ideologically aligned with the Freedom Caucus on stuff like this.) They've got the money to make that caucus listen up. Plus, Trump isn't looking so powerful right now so I think there isn't much fear among Republicans that opposing him will lead to any significant repercussions in the future.

But I've been waiting for the moment when the splintered Republican party would undermine itself and I think this is the big moment.

Democrats ought to make the most of this, to associate all the failures of Trump with the rest of the Republicans and vice versa, but they wont.

Esper said:

I've read that the Freedom Caucus was being lobbied by the Koch brothers to oppose the bill because it doesn't go far enough in removing things in the ACA like the staying-on-parents-plan-until-26 rule and others. (The Kochs are ideologically aligned with the Freedom Caucus on stuff like this.) They've got the money to make that caucus listen up. Plus, Trump isn't looking so powerful right now so I think there isn't much fear among Republicans that opposing him will lead to any significant repercussions in the future.

But I've been waiting for the moment when the splintered Republican party would undermine itself and I think this is the big moment.

Democrats ought to make the most of this, to associate all the failures of Trump with the rest of the Republicans and vice versa, but they wont.

Click to expand...

I think the Freedom Caucus would have opposed it anyways, regardless of Koch lobbying.

Honestly, we will have to see how bad this ends up for the Republicans. They are going to have to make it up, and if they do, at least this screw up is early in the presidency. If this happened later... there is no way they would win as much in the midterm elections.

I have no clue how anyone can trust either party, we have one of the most corrupted governments in my opinion. After watching multiple documentaries focused on the government I lost trust with our government.

Paige said:

I have no clue how anyone can trust either party, we have one of the most corrupted governments in my opinion. After watching multiple documentaries focused on the government I lost trust with our government.

Click to expand...

This is a sentiment that is spreading across America. A Youtuber by J.T. Sexkik, in giving his own thoughts on how Trump got elected, said something rather profound that I think really captures the attitude of the American people right now in regards to how people are either going more socialist or more libertarian/anarchist in recent years.

To paraphrase:

"Some people have suggested that Trump's candidacy is an expression of rage or rebellion against our decaying political system...after the wars and especially the financial crisis [of 2008] we have sort of lost faith in our institutions. We've lost faith in authority. People no longer trust the government, the media, the academies, or leaders of the private sector. People tend to regard them with cynicism or derision.

Click to expand...

As for the comment on how the AHCA not passing was a lost opportunity, I'm not exactly sure what to think upon that. Sure it would have given the Democrats ammo to tell people who voted Trump "told you so" once their healthcare was gone, but I don't know if allowing people to die or suffer is necessarily the right way to go about it. I guess you can reasonably argue that any true social revolution needs a healthy dosage of suffering and martyrdom in order to achieve the desired result of proving that the ruling power's authority is undesirable, but in this case I'm not seeing any immediate volunteers.

I'm glad it didn't go through. There's really no reason to change it, and republicans are only making it worse for the average citizen, and better for the private companies.

BadSheep said:

I think the Freedom Caucus would have opposed it anyways, regardless of Koch lobbying.

Click to expand...

Probably true.

colours said:

According to Nate Silver in this article, while the health care loss is embarrassing, it's the least worst outcome for Trump. Mostly because if the bill had been passed, Republicans would have to justify to their constituents (remember that most of the same people that voted for Trump are going to be hit hardest by the health care bill) exactly why they screwed them over come midterms. Any thoughts on this?

While failure to pass the AHCA would probably come as a difficult blow to hardcore conservatives who wanted Obamacare gone, I'm not sure how much it'll impact Republican control of the House come midterms. Sure, the Dems can run ads saying the Republicans are incompetent at governing, but that same strategy was tried during the general election to not much effect, wasn't it?

I dunno, really. I feel conflicted.

Click to expand...

It was a lose-lose situation for Trump and the GOP. At least in this outcome we have the ACA which, despite its problems, is better than the AHCA would have been.

It also means that they'll have to attempt to make all the changes they want one by one, which will be long and time consuming, and will probably ensure that the things the people want to remain (preexisting conditions clause, etc.) won't be removed.

While I am happy the repeal failed, the Republicans do have a point. The Affordable Care Act isn't all that affordable when it has such high premiums. However, the GOP's "solution" to the problem was totally not the way to go; you don't fix healthcare by laying off 24 million people from their health insurance! The ACA needs some improvements, yes, but making it so that it only benefits the very rich, like the GOP wanted, is not the way to do it. A government's job is to protect and take care of all of its citizens, not just those at the very top!

BadSheep said:

And Valve's products are actually affordable. How else do you think Gaben has a net worth greater than Trump? Those dang Steam sales!

"Trumpcare," on the other hand, was worse than Obamacare by every standard. No one liked it- no Democrats or Republicans. And obviously even the Libertarians hated it.

Click to expand...

When Libertarians think that you're the fucked-up ones, you know you've fucked up.

And come on, man. Don't be dissin' those Steam sales. I'm sure nobody's complaining about Half-Life going for $0.98, or that one time Portal was given away for free.

Taro Tanaka said:

When Libertarians think that you're the fucked-up ones, you know you've fucked up.

And come on, man. Don't be dissin' those Steam sales. I'm sure nobody's complaining about Half-Life going for $0.98, or that one time Portal was given away for free.

Click to expand...

Libertarians think everyone in the political system is fucked up. Not exactly a standard that you should go by. Try evangelicals, then come back to me. XP

Sir Codin said:

Libertarians think everyone in the political system is ****ed up. Not exactly a standard that you should go by. Try evangelicals, then come back to me. XP

Click to expand...

Or we can stop throwing large groups of people under the bus. XD;;;;;

Nah, as a former libertarian, i can attest to the libertarian community's intelligence. You have actual smart people, but a lot of the LP's ideas are too black-and-white (the LP often forgets that interacts between people is far more complicated than merely trading goods or murdering each other). Conservative criticism of government is far superior to libertarian criticism. In my opinion, I think the LP gets some stuff right, but they are often self-defeating and ignorant. Just look at the candidates they put out for president for evidence. Dont get me wrong: there are some great libertarians, but the movement is far too libertine and insufficient to be taken seriously right now. They would greatly improve if they actually looked at government without such a black-and-white lens (not everything the government does it bad!) and purged the party of the crazies.

To apply this with healthcare... libertarians aren't exactly the most practical people. No compromising whatsoever even if it means getting nothing they want. Its either Obamacare, medicaid, medicare, etc or NOTHING.

It's troubling to hear Trump and co. talking about the ACA imploding and how it would be good for them politically. Seems as though they're going to try to sabotage it until they can force it into a death spiral. Like, they don't care that people are relying on it for health coverage.

Esper said:

It's troubling to hear Trump and co. talking about the ACA imploding and how it would be good for them politically. Seems as though they're going to try to sabotage it until they can force it into a death spiral. Like, they don't care that people are relying on it for health coverage.

Click to expand...

It actually isn't that far from the truth, however. Obamacare is an unsustainable program. Here's why:

The program was put in place on the premise that millions would pay into the system. Over the years, premiums have skyrocketed over 300%. People see that their previous health care plan was more affordable, and leave. As a result, those still utilizing the pool must now pay more due to the people leaving. The cycle repeats until there is no one left to run the damn thing.

What I hate most about Obamacare is that it's done far more harm than it has done good. The premiums are extremely high and Obamacare was designed to help the poorer/lower middle class. Turns out, poor people can't afford it and quit the program. Obama also levied a new fun tax system that if you don't have care, the government gets to gouge you for $700 dollars for no particular reason.

I give it at best 2 years from a business standpoint. There is no longer enough people in the pool to draw on a healthy sustainable system and will collapse in on itself in due time. Turns out that inventing new phantom taxes isn't such a hot thing to do.