Bernie Sanders announces 2020 presidential run

https://www.vpr.org/post/hes-2020-bernie-sanders-running-president-again


Surely, this is a good thing, that Bernie is running for president again. His campaign promises seem like something I'd personally vote for. We'll see what happens, I'm sure there are plenty of people who are for this, as well as against.

He's already gotten $1 million raised too: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie...ses-more-than-1-million-in-less-than-4-hours/ so there's that.

I wholeheartedly agree, but don't call me "Shirley".

😀

It's going to be interesting to see how he does, he has the whole "next man up" thing going for him that helped Hillary, Romney, and McCain in the primaries but hurt them in the general. He also does not have the whole anti Hillary vote to rally around him like in 2016. With his blue collar roots he is a more formidable candidate against Trump and I do think he would have done better than Clinton did in the general, maybe even winning Pennsylvania or Michigan. However he does seem to have some weakness in debating, a rather large and I would say lethal misstep on his part was the famous "sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails." giving Clinton cover for what ended up being a rather lethal weak point.

I still like Bernie's platform, and judging by how much money he raised in a couple of hours, it would seem I am not alone, or I daresay we are not alone. I still believe in healthcare for all as a human right, and think he is one of the few well-known politicians in our countrt who is actually sincere about this position. Environmental protections are deeply important to me as well, now more than ever in light of recent reports by the IPCC. I am pleased to learn that Senator Sanders will be offering his own version if the Green New Deal, and look forward to reading more details about that.

If you support Bernie, or anyone else as the democratic nominee for 2020 who is not part of the establishment, be it Marianne Williamson, Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang or somebody else, just make sure to keep your eye on the DNC so they don't try to rig the primary again like they did in 2016.

It will be interesting watching the new dynamics of the playing field. Previously, it was essentially a fight between one honest man, Bernie, and the entire democratic establishment united behind Hillary. Now it is not the stark choice it was in 2016 with corporate interests concentrated 110% on Hillary. We may be able to divide and conquer because you have a bunch that represent the same neo-liberal agenda as the Clintons, Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden will also probably run. The vote is split into many pieces and Bernie could potentially win with merely 20% if there is no funny business, not unlike the crowded field of candidates played into Trump's hands for the GOP bid. Bernie is still a well-liked politician and has more name recognition now than ever.

relevant:

https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1097891053355614209

If Bernie hopes to make any headway at all, he needs to make up ground with the groups that he lost in 2016. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. With such a congested democratic field, and the fact that Hillary's name isn't on the ballot this year, he's going to have to fight tooth and nail to give voters a reason why they should back him again. Those are not numbers to take lightly and he has quite a ways to go.

The first debate will set the stage on whether or not Bernie has any sort of realistic shot of getting the nomination.

Important to remember that California will have an earlier primary than usual next year. This may not effect Bernie too much ( as we saw in 2016 he will stay in for the long haul), however it will weed out the field considerably and gives Kamala Harris a sizeable early lead.

I would predict that Bernie's weaknesses in the primary will be the minority vote, which has gained an even larger prominence in Democratic politics after Trump's win of white voters in 2016, and gun control. Clinton hammered him pretty well on gun control in 2016, and I can see the field attacking him on it as his biggest weakness.

For the general if he makes it that far, socialism vs the current economy could be a major weakness. Unless the economy slows down, Trump has presided against a rather robust economy, while Venezuela, which for the past 10 or 15 years has been the poster child for socialism is desolving into a civil war. The RNC would love to paint Sanders as someone who would take a powerful economy and turn it into the next Venezuela.

EnglishALT said:

Important to remember that California will have an earlier primary than usual next year.

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Is there a reason for this?

Trump has presided against a rather robust economy,

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citation needed

Nah said:

Is there a reason for this?

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California wanted more sway in the primary field they went from July to the beginning of March.

citation needed

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4.9% to 5% unemployment in 2016 to 3.7% to 4% in 2018 and 2019

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns14000000

0.4% economic growth in Jan 2016 to 4.2% and 3.4% by Jul 2018

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

Consumer Confidence growth rose to a level not seen since before the .com bubble burst.

http://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-consumer-confidence-surged-in-october-to-18-year-high-1540909611

American confidence in their own finances is two percentage points away from an all time high last recorded during the Clinton era.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246602/americans-confidence-finances-keeps-growing.aspx

EnglishALT said:

California wanted more sway in the primary field they went from July to the beginning of March.

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tbh I'd rather that we hold the primaries all at roughly the same time instead of this old spread out way we currently have, so that no state or states can have more sway over the primaries than the others

Nah said:

tbh I'd rather that we hold the primaries all at roughly the same time instead of this old spread out way we currently have, so that no state or states can have more sway over the primaries than the others

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This, tbh

Also, maybe they should consolidate the primaries on presidential election years as well, just so that we don't have to go to the polls more than twice in a year. On presidential election years in Florida, we have primaries in March for the president (and US senator if there's a race for that) going on, then our state primaries in August, which include statewide races in addition to US congressional candidate narrowing. Is there really a reason why they can't have the presidential primary later, and then the state primary on the same ballot?

Sure that may cause some more backups at polling locations, but it will at least be one less election to have to worry about.

It's been less than what 48? 72 hours? Already Senator Sanders has touched off his first controversy in regards to Venezuela.

Politico said:

Sanders did not embrace Maduro in his Tuesday interview with Univision's Jorge Ramos, who quickly touched on Guaidó being declared the interim president of Venezuela by the nation's National Assembly following Maduro's questionable election.

But when he was asked whether he recognized Guaidó as the legitimate leader of the country, Sanders answered, "No."

"There are serious questions about the recent election. There are many people who feel it was a fraudulent election," Sanders added.

In a follow-up question, Ramos asked Sanders if he thought Maduro is a dictator who should step down. Sanders refused to say yes or no.

"I think clearly he has been very, very abusive," Sanders replied. "That is a decision of the Venezuelan people, so I think, Jorge, there's got to be a free and fair election. But what must not happen is that the United States must not use military force and intervene again as it has done in the past in Latin America, as you recall, whether it was Chile or Brazil or the Dominican Republic or Guatemala."

Sanders also said that he believes "the United States has got to work with the international community to make sure that there is a free and fair election in Venezuela."

That comment puzzled Shalala. "I do agree the international comm needs to come together and the U.S. needs to work with the international community," she said. "But that's been happening."

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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/bernie-sanders-venezuela-maduro-1179636

Considering that Maduro's troops killed two people this morning and sent over a dozen to the hospital, maybe it would be best for him to go on and condemn Maduro and say he must step down.

Considering that Maduro's troops killed two people this morning and sent over a dozen to the hospital, maybe it would be best for him to go on and condemn Maduro and say he must step down.

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Interesting. Of course, those same atrocities happen in Russia and North Korea on a regular basis, yet Trump's failure to condemn Putin and Kim have yet to produce any calls for resignation from his base.

Why exactly does Venezuelan concern Sanders at all? Seriously? At least he is willing to refer to Maduro as "very, very abusive" and express his doubts about the fairness of the election, something Trump turns a blind eye to in regards to dictators he supports, or even in this country.

Why is Venezuela so special, so singled out? I'll tell you why, and it's the same reason Trump's base condemns Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, because of the newest "dirty word" in American politics: Socialism.

Trump's supporters (I refuse to even call them "Republicans" now) believe Socialism is "Communism Lite" which it isn't, and are doing their best to spread a new "Red Scare", using Venezuela as a base. IMOHO, Venezuela is a socialist nation in name only, and has become a despotism.

What's the solution then, LDS? Invade Venezuela? Support the opposition army? Didn't the President promise to "stop getting us into stupid wars" and pledge "America first"? An attitude like this, combined with the original Red Scare, got us involved in Korea and Vietnam, the stupidest wars of all, and are the exact reason "Tricky Dick" Nixon and Lyndon B. "Hey, Hey, LBJ, How Many Kids Did You Kill Today" Johnson were reviled.

People have to stop believing there's some "socialist plot" and do research on what Socialism truly is.

After all, Mark Twain was a socialist and proud to call himself such. Can't get more American than he was.

Maedar said:

Why exactly does Venezuelan concern Sanders at all? Seriously?

....

Why is Venezuela so special, so singled out?

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If I had to hazard a guess, it'd be because the crisis in Venezuela is one of the big things in the news right now. Russia and North Korea are old news with nothing dramatic happening from them lately, so people's attention is elsewhere. People also probably want him to take a side on the matter (and more specifically, the side they support), and while his statements certainly don't imply that he's pro-Maduro, it doesn't sound like he's on a side, or at least not to the degree that some people would like.

but again, little more than a guess on my part

The fact that is is "old news" does not excuse mass murder.

IMOHO, Kay, the quotes that LDS man provided seem to show that Bernie's only "fault" is his unwillingness to use force against Maduro. The quotes made seem to condemn Maduro's regime quite a bit. What did anyone expect, that he'd say "Maduro is a madman who has to be ousted in a preemptive strike"? Trump and his supporters don't seem to realize that "paying evil unto evil" is an extreme measure that should always be the last option, never the first.

Maedar said:

Interesting. Of course, those same atrocities happen in Russia and North Korea on a regular basis, yet Trump's failure to condemn Putin and Kim have yet to produce any calls for resignation from his base.

Why exactly does Venezuelan concern Sanders at all? Seriously? At least he is willing to refer to Maduro as "very, very abusive" and express his doubts about the fairness of the election, something Trump turns a blind eye to in regards to dictators he supports, or even in this country.

Why is Venezuela so special, so singled out? I'll tell you why, and it's the same reason Trump's base condemns Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, because of the newest "dirty word" in American politics: Socialism.

Trump's supporters (I refuse to even call them "Republicans" now) believe Socialism is "Communism Lite" which it isn't, and are doing their best to spread a new "Red Scare", using Venezuela as a base. IMOHO, Venezuela is a socialist nation in name only, and has become a despotism.

What's the solution then, LDS? Invade Venezuela? Support the opposition army? Didn't the President promise to "stop getting us into stupid wars" and pledge "America first"? An attitude like this, combined with the original Red Scare, got us involved in Korea and Vietnam, the stupidest wars of all, and are the exact reason "Tricky Dick" Nixon and Lyndon B. "Hey, Hey, LBJ, How Many Kids Did You Kill Today" Johnson were reviled.

People have to stop believing there's some "socialist plot" and do research on what Socialism truly is.

After all, Mark Twain was a socialist and proud to call himself such. Can't get more American than he was.

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Venezuela right now is a flash point because of all the media able to document the humanitarian crisis going on. North Korea being a hermit country does not really allow cameras in to document the suffering of its people.

Honestly I agree with you we do not need to get into Venezuela militarily, and Trump has done a pretty good job in using diplomacy both secretly ( Taliban ) and overtly ( Syria ) .

That being said right now the best thing to do is use aid shipments to help the people, as Maduro is using food and aid as weapons to keep the people in line.

By the way, it is because of socialism that Venezuela is in the situation it is in right now, it was Chavez's socialist policies to nationalize the oil companies and practically destroy them. Venezuela is a failure in socialist policy.

Maedar said:

The fact that is is "old news" does not excuse mass murder.

IMOHO, Kay, the quotes that LDS man provided seem to show that Bernie's only "fault" is his unwillingness to use force against Maduro. The quotes made seem to condemn Maduro's regime quite a bit. What did anyone expect, that he'd say "Maduro is a madman who has to be ousted in a preemptive strike"? Trump and his supporters don't seem to realize that "paying evil unto evil" is an extreme measure that should always be the last option, never the first.

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If Sanders wishes to be President he is going to have to decide which Venezuelan President to recognize as the legitimate leader, if he believes Maduro is the leader he needs to come out and say it.

ALT, I quote from the interview LDSman provided:

But when he was asked whether he recognized Guaidó as the legitimate leader of the country, Sanders answered, "No."

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Seems he answered your question.

The reason Venezuela is a "failure" of a socialist country is because nobody ever intended it to be. Maduro calls it a "socialist" party because he's lying.

Just like the Lenin was lying when he named his Communist nation the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics". (Not a Socialist country, not a Union."

Just like how the formal name for the ruling party of Germany was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party", despite being an extremist fascist group. Nazis were liars. Just like North Korea's full name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (not a democracy, not ruled by the people, not a republic, and only covers half of Korea). Blatant lies.

South Africa under Mandela was a true socialist country, as was Israel under Golda Meir. People have educate themselves on what true socialism is. Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The reason Trump and his cronies condemn it is because it is the antithesis of plutocracy, and if adapted properly, would mean people like him having to share something he despises.

After all, Capitalism is barely any better.

Maedar said:

ALT, I quote from the interview LDSman provided:



Seems he answered your question.

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Not entirely, as the next question shows he is not willing to say Maduro should step down.

"Ramos asked Sanders if he thought Maduro is a dictator who should step down. Sanders refused to say yes or no."

Maedar said:

The reason Venezuela is a "failure" of a socialist country is because nobody ever intended it to be. Maduro calls it a "socialist" party because he's lying.

Just like the Lenin was lying when he named his Communist nation the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics". (Not a Socialist country, not a Union."

Just like how the formal name for the ruling party of Germany was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party", despite being an extremist fascist group. Nazis were liars. Just like North Korea's full name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (not a democracy, not ruled by the people, not a republic, and only covers half of Korea). Blatant lies.

South Africa under Mandela was a true socialist country, as was Israel under Golda Meir. People have educate themselves on what true socialism is. Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The reason Trump and his cronies condemn it is because it is the antithesis of plutocracy, and if adapted properly, would mean people like him having to share something he despises.

After all, Capitalism is barely any better.

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Chavez set out to turn Venezuela into a socialist economy, he did this terribly through forced nationalization of dozens of industries, heavy social programs that bankrupted the economy, and price fixing which destroyed the value of the money.

You can say it is not socialism, however Chavez's policies and Chavez's own words disagree with you.

Discussing socialism would be better suited for a separate thread, just saying.

Chavez set out to turn Venezuela into a socialist economy, he did this terribly through forced nationalization of dozens of industries, heavy social programs that bankrupted the economy, and price fixing which destroyed the value of the money.

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Which is why I say he was lying.

You can say it is not socialism, however Chavez's policies and Chavez's own words disagree with you.

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So, you believe the words of a dictator who murders his opposition? IMOHO, relying on a murderer's honesty is laughable.

Nah said:

Discussing socialism would be better suited for a separate thread, just saying.

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Of course, I'll move any further discussion to this thread, if Maedar or any one else wishes to join.

https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=418366