PokéCommunity Daily: Make-a-Mega 6: Vote for stat changes for Mega Arcanine NOW!
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MrDollSteak
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I'd be a big fan of Fur Coat in particular. It's a really interesting ability in my opinion, and hasn't had a time to shine. Plus an extra floofy Arcanine is always welcome.
Chemist Wooper
AIN'T HOT, M8
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Quagsire.
(Or Clefable)
(Or Togekiss...)
the rest of comments:
NOOOOOO WTF IS WRONG WITH U???!?!?
(Or Clefable)
(Or Togekiss...)
the rest of comments:
NOOOOOO WTF IS WRONG WITH U???!?!?
We've long since determined Arcanine as our choice and as OU Pokemon Clefable and Quagsire are ineligible anyway xD
If you want to submit ideas for Pokemon to work on, the next MaM starts in a few weeks.
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Heh Touch Claws
I see this post and raise you one M-Slowbro.
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This Pokemon is going to end up being worse than normal Arcanine if Fur Coat wins.
I think it'd help if, in the future, participants were required to explain why they want these changes to happen. That way someone couldn't just unload a bunch of random abilities that don't make sense for the build. A limit of how many changes a person could nominate would also help.
I think it'd help if, in the future, participants were required to explain why they want these changes to happen. That way someone couldn't just unload a bunch of random abilities that don't make sense for the build. A limit of how many changes a person could nominate would also help.
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Aurora
seven years here and i finally figure out how to d
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I feel as if giving it Fur Coat departs from the whole concept of Make-A-Mega - that is, to make a Pokemon viable in OU, not broken. I didn't vote for it.
I voted Contrary because Mega Arcanine has the tools to use it, such as Overheat and Close Combat. It is not completely broken because you can phaze it out and because Fire / Fighting is a sufficiently mediocre defensive typing such that it is not downright impossible to stop. This might end up blowing up in my face if stat changes swing a certain way, but hey. We're not there yet.
I voted Contrary because Mega Arcanine has the tools to use it, such as Overheat and Close Combat. It is not completely broken because you can phaze it out and because Fire / Fighting is a sufficiently mediocre defensive typing such that it is not downright impossible to stop. This might end up blowing up in my face if stat changes swing a certain way, but hey. We're not there yet.
MrDollSteak
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While I disagree about Fur Coat making it worse than normal Arcanine (x2 defense is never going to be a bad thing), I do agree that there should be some limit imposed on abilities. Perhaps no more than 5, and only one per person. To me the really strange options on this list are Water Absorb and Magic Guard.
I think Contrary would be far more broken than Fur Coat. Arcanine would still be able to destroyed by most Water special sweepers, and likely wouldn't be doing obscene damage. It would be a tanky build that could spread Will-o-wisp quite effectively and do heaps of cheap damage.
Now phasing is a bad argument because very little pokemon could afford to a) switch into Mega-Arcanine, b) be able to survive a second turn to successfully cast Roar, Whirlwind or Dragon Tail. Mixnape was so successful as it was able to 2HKO or OHKO most pokemon through Overheat and Close Combat alone. Mega Arcanine would have those moves buffing its stats too. Plus with coverage of Wild Charge and Crunch, not even Water or Psychic pokemon could afford to switch in if it gets a +1 Boost from Close Combat.
Blaziken's Fire Fighting Stab in conjunction with Speed Boost was enough to propel it to ubers. I would argue that Contrary with access to Close Combat and Overheat would actually be far more dangerous. Using two Close Combats (which is very likely) actually gives Arcanine +2 Defense which is the exact same boost as Fur Coat.
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Ok, so with this ability, Overheat and Close Combat are pretty much going to be standard on it. The other viable moves that it could run (given the nature of Arcanine) are: Morning Sun, Extremespeed, Crunch, Wild Charge, and for this case, Rest and Sleep Talk. For Special Moves: Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power, and then Hyper Beam and Snarl - the last two are basically unused.
Given this information, let's thinking about the non-Pokémon-specific to this type of Arcanine. Anything immune to Fire that can soak up physical hits could work with Toxic, as long as Arcanine isn't running Rest (even then, Taunt exists). Also note that it can't boost its offensive and defense at the same time.
So we have:
1. Mainly Physical Attacker.
2. Can only boost Special Attack or Defenses (but not both) in one turn.
3. Doesn't boost Attack or Speed.
I mean first of all, Unaware 'mons would stop this. Even if Arcanine is running recovery, Calm Mind Clefable would destroy it. You'd have to run Toxic just to beat Clefable or Quagsire.
Secondly, it's not going to be immediately threatening. Like Serperior, it's non-threatening with 0 boosts. Given the many weaknesses of Fire/Fighting (and the fact that it can't have an item), even if you boost once you're not going to be unstoppable after one SpAtk boost or unkillable with one Def/SpDef boost. The safest way you can come in is after a sack on a 'mon who is slower than you who would get destroyed by Overheat/CC, so Amoonguss or Bisharp, let's say. Suppose you kill it, and then get either a defense boost or +2 SpAtk. Then they go into something that's faster and can hit hard. Scarf Lando (doesn't even have to be scarfed if we lower speed), Specs Keldeo, Talonflame, etc. If you got the defensive boosts, then you won't do damage with your next attack. If you got the SpAtk boost, then you won't be living a hit. The only "problem" I see is that it forces the opponent to sack a Pokémon when you bring it in, but that's the case with a lot of Pokémon.
Also it's not going to boost Attack or Speed. Most of Arcanine's attacks are physical and it's also not very fast. It's not going to be a fast devastating sweeper, but it's more of a bulky sweeper like Mega Slowbro. It's offensive coverage would be low because it's only going to be using Overheat, Dragon Pulse, and probably HP Grass (wow, that's almost the same as Serperior!) It only beats Heatran because of Close Combat, otherwise it would get walled as well. The only way attack is going to get boosted is if Arcanine gets intimidated.
Knowing this, here is what I suggest:
HP: 90 (+0)
Atk: 70 (-40)
Def: 111 (+31)
SpAtk: 165 (+65)
SpDef: 111 (+31)
Speed: 98 (+3)
BST: 645 (+90)
(If BST Growth requirement can be lowered, I would gladly lower)
So I'm really going to take the Arcane part seriously - the high SpAtk really means that Arcanine is now a wizard dog. This spread means that you'll likely be running Overheat, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power, and either Morning Sun for recovery or Close Combat if you want defenses (most likely Close Combat).
Even if you're at +1 Defenses with no investment (and assuming Rocks are up and you switch into them as normal Arcanine), Timid Scarf Lando has <50% chance to OHKO, Jolly Sharp Beak Talon has a small chance to OHKO, but the situation is different if Talon is Adamant or running Band. Keldeo Hydro still OHKOs even without Rocks, so does Medicham Fake Out + Zen Headbutt, and also Mega Pinsir Return (provided you've Mega Evolved already). Keep in mind that this is all provided that you're at +1 for defenses, which means that you've already used Close Combat on a sack or something slower and weak to it, and that you probably don't have +2 SpAtk.
The important things are:
- Mega Arcanine has poor attack, so running a Physical set with Overheat might be possible, but deals less overall damage (since you have bad attack and your only move to benefit from boosts would be Overheat)
- It's fairly slow and you cannot boost speed.
- Usually you can only get one boost (+1 Defenses or +2 SpAtk) before the opponent switches into something that kills you. If you got +2 SpAtk then you're not living the hit. If you got +1 Defenses then you still might not live the hit, and your damage is lowered.
- You can't fully invest into Attack, Special Attack, Speed, or Defenses.
I think the best option for this Arcanine is to run some max SpAtk and Max HP to let you take on hits better, but it's going to be a lot slower than usual.
Yes someone can make a bunch of counter-arguments because I used one specific set (Timid 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe) for calculations, but my point is that you can't boost offense and defense simultaneously. There aren't many things that can wall this set, but there are a lot of things that can revenge kill it.
Also compared to some of the other sweepers, this is nothing. Zard X, Dragonite, and Mega Pinsir can all destroy teams once set up, because they're going to outspeed your entire team. Even a Baton Passed Manaphy or Mega Heracross can do the same. Mega Arcanine can't because it can't boost speed (I mean, I guess Baton Pass + Mega Arcanine is deadly, but just ban BP).
Given this information, let's thinking about the non-Pokémon-specific to this type of Arcanine. Anything immune to Fire that can soak up physical hits could work with Toxic, as long as Arcanine isn't running Rest (even then, Taunt exists). Also note that it can't boost its offensive and defense at the same time.
So we have:
1. Mainly Physical Attacker.
2. Can only boost Special Attack or Defenses (but not both) in one turn.
3. Doesn't boost Attack or Speed.
I mean first of all, Unaware 'mons would stop this. Even if Arcanine is running recovery, Calm Mind Clefable would destroy it. You'd have to run Toxic just to beat Clefable or Quagsire.
Secondly, it's not going to be immediately threatening. Like Serperior, it's non-threatening with 0 boosts. Given the many weaknesses of Fire/Fighting (and the fact that it can't have an item), even if you boost once you're not going to be unstoppable after one SpAtk boost or unkillable with one Def/SpDef boost. The safest way you can come in is after a sack on a 'mon who is slower than you who would get destroyed by Overheat/CC, so Amoonguss or Bisharp, let's say. Suppose you kill it, and then get either a defense boost or +2 SpAtk. Then they go into something that's faster and can hit hard. Scarf Lando (doesn't even have to be scarfed if we lower speed), Specs Keldeo, Talonflame, etc. If you got the defensive boosts, then you won't do damage with your next attack. If you got the SpAtk boost, then you won't be living a hit. The only "problem" I see is that it forces the opponent to sack a Pokémon when you bring it in, but that's the case with a lot of Pokémon.
Also it's not going to boost Attack or Speed. Most of Arcanine's attacks are physical and it's also not very fast. It's not going to be a fast devastating sweeper, but it's more of a bulky sweeper like Mega Slowbro. It's offensive coverage would be low because it's only going to be using Overheat, Dragon Pulse, and probably HP Grass (wow, that's almost the same as Serperior!) It only beats Heatran because of Close Combat, otherwise it would get walled as well. The only way attack is going to get boosted is if Arcanine gets intimidated.
Knowing this, here is what I suggest:
HP: 90 (+0)
Atk: 70 (-40)
Def: 111 (+31)
SpAtk: 165 (+65)
SpDef: 111 (+31)
Speed: 98 (+3)
BST: 645 (+90)
(If BST Growth requirement can be lowered, I would gladly lower)
So I'm really going to take the Arcane part seriously - the high SpAtk really means that Arcanine is now a wizard dog. This spread means that you'll likely be running Overheat, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power, and either Morning Sun for recovery or Close Combat if you want defenses (most likely Close Combat).
Even if you're at +1 Defenses with no investment (and assuming Rocks are up and you switch into them as normal Arcanine), Timid Scarf Lando has <50% chance to OHKO, Jolly Sharp Beak Talon has a small chance to OHKO, but the situation is different if Talon is Adamant or running Band. Keldeo Hydro still OHKOs even without Rocks, so does Medicham Fake Out + Zen Headbutt, and also Mega Pinsir Return (provided you've Mega Evolved already). Keep in mind that this is all provided that you're at +1 for defenses, which means that you've already used Close Combat on a sack or something slower and weak to it, and that you probably don't have +2 SpAtk.
The important things are:
- Mega Arcanine has poor attack, so running a Physical set with Overheat might be possible, but deals less overall damage (since you have bad attack and your only move to benefit from boosts would be Overheat)
- It's fairly slow and you cannot boost speed.
- Usually you can only get one boost (+1 Defenses or +2 SpAtk) before the opponent switches into something that kills you. If you got +2 SpAtk then you're not living the hit. If you got +1 Defenses then you still might not live the hit, and your damage is lowered.
- You can't fully invest into Attack, Special Attack, Speed, or Defenses.
I think the best option for this Arcanine is to run some max SpAtk and Max HP to let you take on hits better, but it's going to be a lot slower than usual.
Yes someone can make a bunch of counter-arguments because I used one specific set (Timid 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe) for calculations, but my point is that you can't boost offense and defense simultaneously. There aren't many things that can wall this set, but there are a lot of things that can revenge kill it.
Also compared to some of the other sweepers, this is nothing. Zard X, Dragonite, and Mega Pinsir can all destroy teams once set up, because they're going to outspeed your entire team. Even a Baton Passed Manaphy or Mega Heracross can do the same. Mega Arcanine can't because it can't boost speed (I mean, I guess Baton Pass + Mega Arcanine is deadly, but just ban BP).
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HP: 90 (+0)
Atk: 145 (+35)
Def: 90 (+10)
SpAtk: 145 (+45)
SpDef: 90 (+10)
Speed: 95 (+0)
BST: 655 (+100)
Simple concept here. We give it the offenses it needs to make great use of Contrary. Overheat boosts will allow it power through pretty much anything, and I guess you could run Close Combat if you wanted to. Though, there's less of a reason to do that. Even though I balanced the offenses, there's no way of boosting it's physical attack. Also, I opted not to increase the speed because there's no reason to make it completely broken and have it be able to outrun the entire tier. This build could make it a very good wallbreaker but not quite a sweeper.
Atk: 145 (+35)
Def: 90 (+10)
SpAtk: 145 (+45)
SpDef: 90 (+10)
Speed: 95 (+0)
BST: 655 (+100)
Simple concept here. We give it the offenses it needs to make great use of Contrary. Overheat boosts will allow it power through pretty much anything, and I guess you could run Close Combat if you wanted to. Though, there's less of a reason to do that. Even though I balanced the offenses, there's no way of boosting it's physical attack. Also, I opted not to increase the speed because there's no reason to make it completely broken and have it be able to outrun the entire tier. This build could make it a very good wallbreaker but not quite a sweeper.
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HP: 90
Attack: 90 (-20)
Defense: 120 (+40)
Sp. Atk: 140 (+40)
Sp. Def: 120 (+40)
Speed: 95
Total: 655
I think this is a reasonably fair stat setup for a bulky wallbreaker. With Overheat becoming the obvious choice for the primary STAB, 140 Base Special Attack is plenty to allow it to mow through a fair number of Pokemon. Base 90 Atk might seem a bit shoddy, but considering STAB Close Combat off of that is plenty to worry Rock mons or w/e coming in.
Defensively Arcanine should be able to take a few hits this way too, especially after Close Combat boosts and with Morning Sun. However it's not s bulky that nothing can touch it either. It's also much slower than a lot of the Pokemon that threaten it keeping it balanced.
Attack: 90 (-20)
Defense: 120 (+40)
Sp. Atk: 140 (+40)
Sp. Def: 120 (+40)
Speed: 95
Total: 655
I think this is a reasonably fair stat setup for a bulky wallbreaker. With Overheat becoming the obvious choice for the primary STAB, 140 Base Special Attack is plenty to allow it to mow through a fair number of Pokemon. Base 90 Atk might seem a bit shoddy, but considering STAB Close Combat off of that is plenty to worry Rock mons or w/e coming in.
Defensively Arcanine should be able to take a few hits this way too, especially after Close Combat boosts and with Morning Sun. However it's not s bulky that nothing can touch it either. It's also much slower than a lot of the Pokemon that threaten it keeping it balanced.
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Hp: 90
Atk:140(+30)
Def:170(+80)
Spa:140(+40)
Sdef:60(-20)
Init:65(-30)
So i wanted to avoid making it uber and thougth that it could work via reducing the sdef (which he cant boost) and init, to make it weak towards any special attackers. I gave it a attack and spa boost but put most of the extra bst into def so it doesnt kill any incomign switches.
Atk:140(+30)
Def:170(+80)
Spa:140(+40)
Sdef:60(-20)
Init:65(-30)
So i wanted to avoid making it uber and thougth that it could work via reducing the sdef (which he cant boost) and init, to make it weak towards any special attackers. I gave it a attack and spa boost but put most of the extra bst into def so it doesnt kill any incomign switches.
