Serious opinion

There's obviously a lot of turmoil and anger surrounding the events of the last few days, and it's clear many members think PC will never recover from this total betrayal of their trust and values, but it's also totally uncool of members who just a week ago cared about this forum to trash it up and spam around the site. PC isn't the problem here - it's one individual who has betrayed your trust, your respect, and your forum.

The former admin that I am cringes seeing the spam threads and disrespect for a forum that brought many of us great memories, friends, and time. Even if you can no longer respect the owner of this site, at least don't totally destroy something ALL of us helped to create and grow. It is (or was, now) a community made and grown by the members first and foremost, not one clearly at-fault and immoral person.

The sole issue of this entire week rests on Rukario/Steve and him alone. He betrayed your trust, respect, and this forum with his misuse of donation funds and his years of total apathy and lack of care to provide members with a thriving and growing experience for many, many years - the other major issue being obvious and indecent, so I needn't state it again. For years as an admin/super mod/mod, Rukario was pushed to use donation funds to the benefit of you, the members, and he refused or claimed there was no money to help support this site. Server crashes daily, weekly, monthly; poor communication with his development team and admin team which resulted in constant stagnation of this site's growth; poor activity and presence with no direction or directive, only occasionally appearing to throw things on their head and confuse the staff; outright refusal to facilitate what was needed to keep this community growing. There are obviously bigger factors at play in some regards, such as forums being obsolete, but Rukario's lack of actual leadership or ownership of this forum plays as much of a factor when it comes to the state of PC.

The fact that over thirty members of the moderation team resigned in protest when Rukario should have been the only one to be forced out is totally bonkers to me. Thirty-something people who dedicated more love and care to this forum than Rukario ever has in his entire existence as owner of this site resigned because of his past behavior and his current abuses of your donation money and this site's health. I assume the staff presented this ultimatum to him and he either refused or it was a fruitless effort, but every member should be calling for Rukario's resignation and he ought to find a replacement to maybe save this place.

There's a rift here now and PC probably isn't going to be the same ever again, but if you care(d) about this forum, there's an obvious problem that needs addressed and ignoring it won't fix something that's plagued PC for years and will continue to if you are active here. Obviously there are alternatives to go to and a planned "sorta the same, but not" place to go in the future, but the community is splintered for good it seems and that really sucks as a longtime member here who made some of the best friendships possible on this site. A terrible owner who has done terrible things doesn't change what PC meant to a lot of us, but his continued ownership and leadership of this forum will certainly mean the end of it.

from what ive heard a former member who has gotten banned on multiple accounts is what started all this

Look, I see why you're frustrated at the spam, but on the other hand; a lot of mods and members feel betrayed at the current revelation and the lack of disclosure from higher staff about certain other issues, such as the money thing. Eventually this is all just frustration caused by the ongoing situation the past week.

PC is more than a forum, and the spamming and tarnishing of this forum does not undo the community it created. It's necessary to move houses.

Yeah but spamming won't help, productive discussion will.
All the shit with Rukario is bad, and I honestly believe he should be kicked out of PC but it'snot a reason to be an ass to the people here.

No one is being an ass to other people, the spammers are mostly just talking amongst themselves (and it seems to have quited down already). The forum is being tarnished, but at the same time unsuspecting members deserve to know about the situation without any censor.

I personally feel that Steve is only a small part of PC, it's much more the staff and members who've been crazy active over it's lifetime. That's why I felt like this could blow over. I hate to see the forum die from one person - and over something that happened with them 30 years ago, at that. One person who isn't even online all that much. It sucks that so many staff and members left. Klippy, I do love your post, and you have some good words. I would like to see the site keep going, personally. I'd only leave myself if too many people start to disappear, otherwise I've always stuck by this place.

And where was it confirmed that our money has been used poorly? Did it not go towards the forums? The way and Audy and others spoke over time, they did have money to work with towards the forum. Was it not from donations? Or maybe part of it was used for wrong, but hmmm.

Yeah, I'm refraining of talking more about it, because I'm not even sure if I can talk about it directly. I can defintely get how frustrating it must be for people who have no idea of what happened to see everyone being so vague, but we gotta deal with it. (if you want youcan pm me and I'll give you alink to the new discord server)

Looking on your post, Klippy, I agree wholeheartedly. I kinda feel bad that I haven't taken time to express something like this in my own words.

Once we get Steve out of here (The sooner the better), we should focus on giving PC new life to make up for this whole fiasco.

Killua said:

Yeah, I'm refraining of talking more about it, because I'm not even sure if I can talk about it directly. I can defintely get how frustrating it must be for people who have no idea of what happened to see everyone being so vague, but we gotta deal with it. (if you want youcan pm me and I'll give you alink to the new discord server)

Click to expand...

If you're talking to me, I don't really want to join the discord. I don't want to talk it into the ground. I just plan on checking in over time and seeing how things are going from a bit of a distance.

I'm curious but I don't want to get super involved.

I just wish the best for this place and for the people that stick with it.

I agree with you 100%. It saddens me so much that all the memories and experiences people have made here suddenly hold no value just because of one person, regardless of whether he was the site owner or not. The members and forum staff are the ones who spent most time building this forum into something wonderful and the community itself should not be blamed nor ruined because of the actions of one person. I love this community and I don't want to give it up...but the pressure to resign is absolutely unbelievable. Regardless, I will continue to believe that Steve will give this community up and we can, steadily over time, work on restoring PC's reputation.

The spam is annoying, yes, and it's upsetting to see people destroy the forum over this...But tbh, it really hurts seeing everyone being so upset over this.

That being said, I really don't think anyone is in the wrong for resigning or leaving. While I do see what you're saying in your post, the damage has been done. I'm only sticking around because I want to see what might happen.

It's basically a riot. People get angry (rightly so in this case) about something and then go on a looting spree or set fire to cars as if their behaviour is somehow acceptable since it is in retaliation to another act. Instead of cars we have people spamming the forum.

If people want to leave - and who can blame them? - then they should simply go and let events take their course. Being snarky in every other post really isn't helping anyone, especially the innocent members left behind. People seem to forget there is a lot of very confused youngsters browsing this site and everyone should keep them in mind when they post.

Just a quick question, how all of this started?

Well stated 'editorial' there Klippy! It's honestly sad to know that this great community, including the many dedicated members and staff, both past and present, is in such turmoil over what came out about the webmaster. I've had the honor of making several friends here over the nearly 13 years of my being a member here, even if I've had some rough experiences over that time of being here along the way.

It's a good thing to demand strong leadership in any establishment, even a web forum like this one. Plus, to me, good leadership on a web site or forum includes making necessary investments, upgrades, and maintenance (both preventative and emergency) to make the place better for everyone, something which I have long felt was somewhat lacking over the years that I've been here.

I think it's perfectly legitimate that the webmaster has also been called out for the apparent financial issues this site has been facing. If somebody in a business or government were siphoning that entitiy's money by misappropriation for personal use or some other unintended use, that'd be considered embezzlement, and that person could face prosecution, and possibly incarceration. I am of the view that a great enterprise is built upon public trust, and it's easy for me to see why there's been so much turmoil among the member base here after what has been revealed recently.

Thank you for this, Klippy.

I couldn't agree more about Steve needing to step down. It's been over 48 hours now and there's still no statement whatsoever from him. He knows he's guilty.

Now let me say something about all of the staff who have stepped down. A lot of us did so because we do not wish to associate ourselves with a sex offender, whether he may be de-listed or still currently listed as one. This isn't about a bandwagon at all, and every single one of us made our decision with utmost care and decisiveness. If you were employed at the largest corporation of your country, and you found out the CEO was a sex offender from over thirty years ago, would you still want to work for the company? I doubt it.

I'll just stop there. I have more I could say, but I'd rather not without getting emotional or dropping the mic too further.

Maki-Nishikino said:

from what ive heard a former member who has gotten banned on multiple accounts is what started all this

Click to expand...

this is extremely misinformed and isn't helping the situation or discussion

Very well put, thank you Klippy.

Thanks for putting it so eloquently.

Klippy said:

There's obviously a lot of turmoil and anger surrounding the events of the last few days, and it's clear many members think PC will never recover from this total betrayal of their trust and values, but it's also totally uncool of members who just a week ago cared about this forum to trash it up and spam around the site. PC isn't the problem here - it's one individual who has betrayed your trust, your respect, and your forum.

Click to expand...

This I can agree with. While I may have pretty much left the site, I didn't want to leave it worse than I came to it with. I honestly feel that spamming it was essentially beating a dead horse, let alone it being unprofessional and inconsiderate of the members still wanting to enjoy what there is left of the site.

The former admin that I am cringes seeing the spam threads and disrespect for a forum that brought many of us great memories, friends, and time. Even if you can no longer respect the owner of this site, at least don't totally destroy something ALL of us helped to create and grow. It is (or was, now) a community made and grown by the members first and foremost, not one clearly at-fault and immoral person.

Click to expand...

+1, I concur with this statement 100%.

The sole issue of this entire week rests on Rukario/Steve and him alone. He betrayed your trust, respect, and this forum with his misuse of donation funds and his years of total apathy and lack of care to provide members with a thriving and growing experience for many, many years - the other major issue being obvious and indecent, so I needn't state it again. For years as an admin/super mod/mod, Rukario was pushed to use donation funds to the benefit of you, the members, and he refused or claimed there was no money to help support this site. Server crashes daily, weekly, monthly; poor communication with his development team and admin team which resulted in constant stagnation of this site's growth; poor activity and presence with no direction or directive, only occasionally appearing to throw things on their head and confuse the staff; outright refusal to facilitate what was needed to keep this community growing. There are obviously bigger factors at play in some regards, such as forums being obsolete, but Rukario's lack of actual leadership or ownership of this forum plays as much of a factor when it comes to the state of PC.

Click to expand...

I can't speak on behalf of the staff before I was promoted, but I definitely agree with the poor communication being an issue. He did not interact much with the team (I can't say the same for H-Staff, I never made it that far :P ) and it definitely stalled a lot of things.

The fact that over thirty members of the moderation team resigned in protest when Rukario should have been the only one to be forced out is totally bonkers to me. Thirty-something people who dedicated more love and care to this forum than Rukario ever has in his entire existence as owner of this site resigned because of his past behavior and his current abuses of your donation money and this site's health. I assume the staff presented this ultimatum to him and he either refused or it was a fruitless effort, but every member should be calling for Rukario's resignation and he ought to find a replacement to maybe save this place.

Click to expand...

This is where I'm going to really make my point. If you have already seen the leaked thread (It's on pastebin, I won't link it for reasons but you can go find it on your own), but when H-Staff first discussed this with him, he did not attempt to avoid questions and was direct and presumably honest. However, once this information was released to the rest of the staff, literally within minutes there was the first resignation. Then the news began to settle on the rest of the staff. Steve said nothing. Then even more resignation threads showed up. Still silence. Then other staff began to grief the forums and others started to delete things before they left. Complete radio silence. Nobody wants to be associated with this, especially when it's blown up on Twitter and even made its way through various Discord servers and even managed to make it all the way to 4chan (Yes, it actually did, I found a thread on it on /vp/). Some Daily writers expressed concern for having PC Daily on their resumes, and if any potential employer were to see that, and then catch wind of the current events surrounding the site, that could compromise not just their portfolio but their ability to even get a job.

And even until now, he has said absolutely nothing.

But you want to know why? It's because of how he has been branded. I'm not going to defend him, but I'm certainly not going to throw mud either, it's just not how I roll. In all this situation, he's accused of crimes that we know are fact, albeit misconstrued given the story we were given. I alone cannot verify this, so I won't comment on that. However, in the money handling situation, he's been labelled a liar and a thief. There's no proof of this, but at the same time he was not entirely forthcoming with those allegations according to record. The reason why this is so important is because if he does say anything publicly, there's the chance that nobody will believe him. At this point, he has very few cards to play, so whatever he does, he must play wisely.

I will concur though, following at least one of these allegations he should step down, as was previously mentioned. It's been over 50 hours since this began and he has yet to say anything, so something is definitely happening. However, him stepping down won't be a cakewalk - he'd have to decide what to do with the site - That is, if he will either sell it to the highest bidder/group, pass it on to someone he can trust to run it, or if he'll just shut down the site and throw his hands up in the air. Considering he owns pretty much everything relating to the PokeCommunity brand, he won't give it up easily.

As for an ultimatum, us leaving was the ultimatum. He did absolutely nothing to attempt to stop us from leaving, and it just added fuel to the fire. A number of staff that I've conversed with say that if Steve steps down, they'd consider coming back. But until that happens, PC is a no-go zone for them.

There's a rift here now and PC probably isn't going to be the same ever again, but if you care(d) about this forum, there's an obvious problem that needs addressed and ignoring it won't fix something that's plagued PC for years and will continue to if you are active here. Obviously there are alternatives to go to and a planned "sorta the same, but not" place to go in the future, but the community is splintered for good it seems and that really sucks as a longtime member here who made some of the best friendships possible on this site. A terrible owner who has done terrible things doesn't change what PC meant to a lot of us, but his continued ownership and leadership of this forum will certainly mean the end of it.

Click to expand...

Very well put. If Steve does not step down, PC will die. This is an uncomfortable truth that we all must face. I've met many people here in my almost 9 years that I still enjoy talking with to this day, and I certainly won't forget that. But for some people, PC is still their home through hell and high water, and seeing this site go to waste will leave a very sour taste in some people's mouths.