[Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl] Was Cynthia hard to beat for you?

I used a replica of my original Platinum team on Brilliant Diamond when I faced Cynthia (Empoleon, Staraptor, Luxray, Abomasnow, Garchomp & Spiritomb) and thanks to Spiritomb using Hypnosis to put her Garchomp to sleep I finished it off with an Ice Beam from Abomasnow.

Shining Pearl was a totally different story it took Toxic Spikes from Roserade to finish Cynthia off this was my team (Infernape, Staraptor, Luxray, Floatzel, Roserade & Gallade)

My second playthrough of Brilliant Diamond was harder as I used Torterra, Chatot, Pachirisu, Gastrodon (East Sea), Skuntank & Froslass I finished off her Garchomp with Froslass

Did somebody say Garchomp? Because yeah, Garchomp.

Everything else was relatively easy to take down, but man that thing was not easy to take down, what with its favourable ability and moveset.

I had to re-fight her, like most people the issue being Milotic and Garchomp. However, I admit I didn't build a particularly optimal team - she forced me to actually use some TMs.

Cynthia was not difficult in the slightest. In fact, I would say that she was probably the easiest of all the Elite Four champions that I've ever faced. The only other champion that I could say could possibly be easier is likely Diantha, but in my opinion, all the champions are very easy. I never understood why many trainers struggled against her or believe that she was difficult to beat, even to the point where it has become a meme. Cynthia has to be the most overrated champion ever. I'm assuming that the average player that struggled with Cynthia doesn't EV train their Pokémon, breed for perfect IVs, play competitively, or build balanced teams with a lot of coverage because I personally don't understand.

Sweet Serenity said:

I'm assuming that the average player that struggled with Cynthia doesn't EV train their Pokémon, breed for perfect IVs, play competitively, or build balanced teams with a lot of coverage because I personally don't understand.

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It'd be probably safe to assume that not even 1% of the players take things so seriously to EV train and breed a perfect team for in-game playthroughs. Players normally play for fun, not to spend an absurd amount of hours grinding... ain't nobody got time for that.

Yeah, Cynthia would be a joke if you throw a well prepared meta team with a competitive mindset at her. But even competitive players would hardly bother building such a team for the main story.

Cynthia has EV trained Pokémon with good movesets, natures, held items, and even HAs. That's more than any other champion in the series except for BW2 challenge mode Iris has done. The only thing that can make her easier are affection bonusses and/or overlevelling, but under fair circumstances she's factually far from being one of the easiest.

Corveone said:

It'd be probably safe to assume that not even 1% of the players take things so seriously to EV train and breed a perfect team for in-game playthroughs. Players normally play for fun, not to spend an absurd amount of hours grinding... ain't nobody got time for that.

Yeah, Cynthia would be a joke if you throw a well prepared meta team with a competitive mindset at her. But even competitive players would hardly bother building such a team for the main story.

Cynthia has EV trained Pokémon with good movesets, natures, held items, and even HAs. That's more than any other champion in the series except for BW2 challenge mode Iris has done. The only thing that can make her easier are affection bonusses and/or overlevelling, but under fair circumstances she's factually far from being one of the easiest.

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Yet, many Pokémon players spend several hours, if not weeks or months even, attempting to find shiny Pokémon, which have absolutely no competitive battle value whatsoever. If players have the time to hunt otherwise useless shiny Pokémon, then they should definitely have the time to EV train their Pokémon during their playthroughs so their Pokémon could hit harder, defend better, and attack faster. In fact, players barely have to do much when EV training their Pokémon these days, as the purpose of vitamins, such as Calcium, Carbos, Hp Up, Iron, Protein, and Zinc, boosts a Pokémon's EVs. As for the strength level of Elite Four champions, I actually struggled the most with Steven Stone from Pokémon Alpha Sapphire. His Mega Metagross definitely put up more of a fight against my team than Cynthia's Garchomp or any of her Pokemon, but even he was still relatively easy. To me, he was slightly more difficult than challenge mode Iris. With good stats and a solid team, you can easily sweep Cynthia's entire team with a single Baton Pass boost, but she's even easy without it if you have good offensive and defensive cores on your team to check whatever she switches into. The funny thing is, the team that I used wasn't even meta. It was just a collection of some of my favorites, along with my starter Empoleon.

Sweet Serenity said:

If players have the time to hunt otherwise useless shiny Pokémon, then they should definitely have the time to EV train their Pokémon during their playthroughs so their Pokémon could hit harder, defend better, and attack faster. In fact, players barely have to do much when EV training their Pokémon these days, as the purpose of vitamins, such as Calcium, Carbos, Hp Up, Iron, Protein, and Zinc, boosts a Pokémon's EVs.

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Isn't shiny hunting normally left for post-game though?

Vitamins you find are scarce, and by the time you can buy enough for your entire team (if you ever get enough money for that), your team will already have flawed EV spreads, especially the starter and other early-game mons. EV reducing berries are also only found at specific points in the game, and you have to harvest and wait if you want more. And Power items are only available for purchase at post-game Battle Tower.

Clearly the developers don't intend players to build EV trained in-game teams, but to actually have fun playing the game, and save the counterintuitive and tedious work (that people only do because they're forced to) for the post-game.

Stats can be improved faster and easier by simply overlevelling, which is so easy with modern Exp. Share it can even happen accidentally. I had to skip a lot of trainers in the late game to prevent it.

Sweet Serenity said:

I actually struggled the most with Steven Stone from Pokémon Alpha Sapphire. His Mega Metagross definitely put up more of a fight against my team than Cynthia's Garchomp or any of her Pokemon, but even he was still relatively easy.

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Well, against my team, Steven's Metagross got one-shoted by Drought Ninetales found through Dex Nav. That doesn't necessarily mean Mega Metagross is easy, I just happened to have a good counter for it... but that's the thing in Pokémon games, not everyone has the same team.

Corveone said:

Isn't shiny hunting normally left for post-game though? Vitamins you find are scarce, and by the time you can buy enough for your entire team (if you ever get enough money for that), your team will already have flawed EV spreads, especially the starter and other early-game mons. EV reducing berries are also only found at specific points in the game, and you have to harvest and wait if you want more. And Power items are only available for purchase at post-game Battle Tower. Clearly the developers don't intend players to build EV trained in-game teams, but to actually have fun playing the game, and save the counterintuitive and tedious work (that people only do because they're forced to) for the post-game. Stats can be improved faster and easier by simply overlevelling, which is so easy with modern Exp. Share it can even happen accidentally. I had to skip a lot of trainers in the late game to prevent it. Well, against my team, Steven's Metagross got one-shoted by Drought Ninetales found through Dex Nav. That doesn't necessarily mean Mega Metagross is easy, I just happened to have a good counter for it... but that's the thing in Pokémon games, not everyone has the same team.

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Even if hunting shiny Pokémon is saved for post-game, which I am not too sure about because I am not a shiny hunter, it is still the most repetitive and tedious thing a Pokémon player can do, but it's extremely common with Pokémon players. It takes much longer and much more effort to hatch eggs over and over and hope for a shiny than it does to have the Pokémon you're EV training defeat a Pokémon that yields the correct EVs your Pokémon needs. It's not as difficult or tedious as people think it is. Another way to play the game and have Pokémon with good EVs is to breed Pokémon and transfer them from another game. What I prefer to do is breed my Pokémon in another game, store that Pokémon, and transfer them to a new game. That way, I can begin my journey with a Pokémon with a perfect EV spread. I've been doing this since generation 2 by using Pokémon Stadium 2's N64 box storage feature in Professor Oak's lab. If you don't have the resources to breed and transfer, you can simply trade with other players on sites like this one or the Pokémon Discord servers who would be more than happy to help you out. Even without these methods, EVs don't have to be perfectly spread, especially to do better against NPCs. They're only required to be the most abundant in a Pokémon's best stats.

Even the use of a few vitamins throughout your play-through, along with TM moves used on Pokémon that have great coverage potential, can go a very long way during your play-through. Regardless, whenever I begin my journey for the first time, I try to EV train my Pokémon the best possible way that I can, even if it doesn't turn out perfectly. It's the only way that I know how to play. For this reason, Pokémon NPCs are never difficult for me, no matter what team I use, or what levels my Pokémon are. The developers do want you to be mindful of how you EV train your Pokémon early on, as not everything is intended for post-game. For example, you can't evolve your Tyrogue into Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, or Hitmontop without EV training Tyrogue a certain way. Also, in each game, every early route Pokémon yields EVs in the stats that would help the Pokémon you likely have by that time grow in the way that they should grow. I understand that not every player uses the same team, but it's not about the teams you use. It's about certain NPCs being difficult. My point is that absolutely no NPC should be difficult for anybody that's actually doing his or her part to make his or her team good. I can only imagine extreme casual players that do nothing but simply cruise through the game without EV training in any shape or form, using coverage moves, or being mindful of their stats finding any NPC difficult. Being a bad player shouldn't be equated to "having fun."

She is defenty harder in Pearl then she is in Platinum and she has Perfect IV and EV's so it was though but doable.

No because I was over leveled

I went in expecting to lose yet somehow came out winning

I lost the first time I challenged her.

I won the second time, but just barely. I only had one Pokémon left when I took her down.

I was nuzlocking and one of the rules was no items during battle

the entire game was super easy, sometimes even stupidly so, AND THEN CAME IN E4 + CHAMPION....

its like i was playing two entirely different games with the same team and rules. I wiped to E4 many times and then when I finally got to Cynthia, wiped some more. I only was able to defeat her when I gave up on nuzlocking and just tried to beat her the same way a 6 year old would: using legendaries, healing, revives.... :P

I plan on nuzlocking it again sometime, maybe I can finally BEAT her during a nuzlocke run

Yes, and every time. Although on my Wonderlocke I managed her without deaths somehow.